Curse

Longasc · Feb 22, 2008, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Hmmm, this thread reminded me of something. The God's Facets were Dragon shaped. Dragon's are the main enemies of GW2. There are people being able to relate the dragons to the gods (as "opposites"). Perhapes this somehow gives a hint that the gods and the dragons really are connected? Just a thought I had.

Interesting and true!

Glint is after all, a dragon prophet and placed on Tyria by the gods themselves, according to the Wiki and Lore: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Glint

The first creature you place on a world, would it not be something similar to yourself? Just like Adam was created after the image of god.

Then our gods would be DRAGONS. Why do they suddenly appear in human form? This is their choice, nobody knows how they really look like. Abaddon is usually portrayed as some 6/8 eyed giant squid.

Humanity and other races would then just be animals in the eyes of the gods.
"God then noted that "It is not good that the man should be alone" (Gen. 2.18, KJV). He then brought every "beast of the field and every fowl of the air" (Gen. 2.19, KJV)"

Now we have some 5-6 "dragon-gods", that noticed that mankind spread like wildfire. A very successful animal, that started worshipping them - but not in their fearful dragon form, but in more human shape.

These 5 dragon gods are the "human gods", yet they are still ancient dragons or at least dragons or related to dragons. Glint would be one of their children or creation.

And then we have the other ancient dragons. Primordus being probably no.1 among them, given the name. :>

Now think about Balthazar and his brother Menzies:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Menzies
Menzies is the Lord of Destruction and the evil half-brother of Balthazar, he's trying to overthrow Balthazar and take control of the Fissure of Woe. The Shadow Army are his followers. There are no known depictions of Menzies.

Could Menzies not be one of the Ancient Dragons or related to them?
Grenth's arch enemy Dhuum could then be the Undead Dragon of Orr.

Beheader205 · Feb 22, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

i forgot the name but remember the person in nightfall who takes abbadons place. she was a human and not a dragon but still became a god. would she be the only human god or become a dragon later on?

Longasc · Feb 22, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Kormir was quite human, so being a god does not seem to be restricted to dragons.

Ancient Dragons are probably about as powerful as our known gods, so they could as well call themselves "gods" or become gods.

draxynnic · Feb 22, 2008, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beheader205

i forgot the name but remember the person in nightfall who takes abbadons place. she was a human and not a dragon but still became a god. would she be the only human god or become a dragon later on?

Grenth is also a mortal that ascended, so he could have been something different.

The others? We don't know. Personally, my theory is that Dwayna and Melandru are the originals (Dwayna is the leader, Melandru is known to have been around at the creation of the world, and both have wings or something winglike on their statues and avatars, which could be an indication of being different from humankind in shape - whether just because of the wings or because the wings are symbolic of something else). Of course, the reason Balthazar doesn't have wings could simply be just like the Gelflings - he's a boy.

michaelhunter81 · Feb 22, 2008, 03:46 PM // 15:46

My therory on this lore is that none of them were truely gods to begin with.

The power of being a god comes from being worshiped, with out followers and worshipers there is no god, no power.

I belive that perhaps the dragons were the first creation that came from the mists.

Within time as humans and the like started to rise and populate they look toward these great beasts as deific and started to worship them, once enough worshipers arose they in all esence became gods.

Till perhaps some revolt or something happened to put them all to sleep or what ever happened.

Then later the legends of a few great heros perhaps, i.e. dwayna, melendru etc. became widspread and then they started to be worshiped as well, with them soon becomeing the "new" gods.

Once again this is just a possible idea I had behind the whole thing.

Free Runner · Feb 22, 2008, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I still think the Ancient Dragons were in fact the original gods. My speculation is that they were conquered by some beings from the Mists on the plane we now call Tyria. After that the gods who originally conquered the Dragons left this "plane" and were conquered by a new set of beings - Dwayna,Melandru,Lyssa,Balthazar,Abaddon and Dhuum. They then came to the plane and began creating Tyria as we know it today. And so begins the history of Tyria with the Ancient Dragons long forgotton.

Anyway speculation aside - the gods are linked to Dragons in general -Glint,the Facets and now Ancient Dragons, one of which has the ability to breathe life into things (something which would be often linked to a godlike being).

Azael Durge · Feb 22, 2008, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Maybe they arent gods but powerful beings that stumbled here through the rift, sprouted a few hundred people in tyira got bored and left.

And there is that guy who learnt to use the rift, have we any more lore on it? I know that world pvp will happen there.

Eldin · Feb 22, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

That would be a gay plot twist in GW lore if the Gods we all know were "phonies" and usurped the Dragons, unless the Dragons were unjust rulers like Grenth -> Dhuum.

Fangclaw · Mar 23, 2008, 01:42 AM // 01:42

The OP's theory is the one one that makes the most sense, but there are still some gaps in it...

The fact that Kormir ascended might prove that Ascension to Godhood is not restricted to beings of the same species as the ''original'' gods.

Pyra Fade · Mar 23, 2008, 04:19 AM // 04:19

How about a greek spin on things?
So far we have all the ingredients.
The Mists would be something like Cronos. The first and the creator.
Then the Dragons, would be the titans. Spawned from Cronos and ruled the universe as tyrants.
Then the gods, (Balthazar is perhaps like Zeus?) overthrew Cronos and locked his titans away.
So the dragons are under lock and key (aka sleep with a TBA wake up call), Cronos has been reduced from his physical existence into basicly the fabric of the universe, The Mists
And the young gods rule.
So i guess were waitin for the planets to align and Grenth to unleash the dragons? or perhaps theres a fragment of abbadon left, and he's gona let em loose? lol, thats just if Anet read greek mythology while brainstorming for GW lore :P

ps: forgive me if i got sum things wrong about greek mythology, its a vague rendition.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 23, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Wow, something I posted got someone to start a thread....scary. Anyways, What I meant when I said that post is that there are really two "sets" of gods. The gods we know (Dwayna, Melandru, Etc.) and the Ancient Dragons, both of which are "gods" of something, but the human's gods and the dragons are like good and evil of whatever they are the god of. My stance on this has changed since that post o so long ago. Now, I think that the Ancient Dragons are the original gods, as Free Runner said right away, but to change from Free Runner's idea, I say that the human's gods defeated and absorbed the power of the Ancient Dragons' generals, much like how Duncan planned to absorb the Great Destroyer's power. Menzie probably absorbed a weaker general's power, which is why he is considered a demi-god.

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

The others? We don't know. Personally, my theory is that Dwayna and Melandru are the originals (Dwayna is the leader, Melandru is known to have been around at the creation of the world, and both have wings or something winglike on their statues and avatars, which could be an indication of being different from humankind in shape - whether just because of the wings or because the wings are symbolic of something else). Of course, the reason Balthazar doesn't have wings could simply be just like the Gelflings - he's a boy.

To comment on the wings things. On the Stained Glass mural of Grenth, he does have wings, although it is hard to notice.

Gmr Leon · Mar 23, 2008, 06:10 PM // 18:10

I'm still not sure we or anyone in general should be so hasty to assume that the Ancient Dragons are the Gods. If you follow the Path to Revelations quest chain in the Tarnished Coast you'll notice that in the dialogue after finishing each quest Kerrsh tells you bits and pieces of what he is discovering in his research.

Read over those, if you will, and tell me you're still certain of the Gods being the Ancient Dragons or human or any creature at all. Oh and Azazel are you certain the wings aren't actually horns or his robes?

Fangclaw · Mar 23, 2008, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Theres 5 of them... and Kormir is on those. Wheres the who's missing though? Judging from this, I'd say its either Melandru or Lyssa.

Gmr Leon · Mar 23, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

My apologies, I cut out the ones that didn't contain any substantial lore information when I put that pic together. It is Lyssa.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 23, 2008, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Oh and Azazel are you certain the wings aren't actually horns or his robes?

Very sure. I just noticed it yesterday. Seeing how there were feathers I don't think that could be horns, which were there too and much more noticeable and I don't think his robes would have feathers.

Fangclaw · Mar 23, 2008, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Mind putting it up? Its probably relevant...

Gmr Leon · Mar 23, 2008, 08:20 PM // 20:20

I can tell you what it says word for word, but I won't. It's basically Kerrsh saying, GOGOGOGO! WE'RE ALMOST DONE!1! KILL THAT FACET, GO!

Or in other words..

"We are almost there. The answers we seek are near, yet there is more that must be done. The Facet of Illusions, a manifestation of your deity, Lyssa, has appeared within the Magus Stones. Defeat it and bring its cipher to me. Quickly now, our time draws near!"

Seraphim of Chaos · Mar 23, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

They spelled Dwayna wrong in your picture.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 23, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fangclaw

Mind putting it up? Its probably relevant...

I was actually going to put it up once I went back to it. I found this mural in pre, I think there is one in the Isle of the Dead guild hall, and I'm sure there are some in some dungeons here and there too. Anyways, here is the pic.

Can anyone say "Angel Of Death" idea?

Free Runner · Mar 23, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

I think thats more of a background than wings.

Quote:

Read over those, if you will, and tell me you're still certain of the Gods being the Ancient Dragons or human or any creature at all

I never was certain and cant be until GW2 is released. It is simply a theory.