Curse

nembool · May 12, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I've been reading the Lore sections on GW Wiki and found the following:-

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tyria_%28world%29

The first section states that Abaddon defeated two of the gods, but was in turn defeated by the combined power of the other five. We know that the five were Dwayna, Balthazar, Grenth, Lyssa and Melandru. So who were the other two?

They are unlikely to be Dhuum and Menzies, as both of these are explicitly stated as working with Abaddon in other lore sections. I find it unlikely that they would work with Abaddon if they were defeated by him previously, gods being capricious and all. Plus of course, Dhuum was supplanted by Grenth and would ally with Abaddon against the other gods (or Grenth at least). Menzies is never specifically referred to as a god, according to Wiki, so I discount him too.

Also unlikely to be the Titans, despite them being referred to as Charr gods, as we know them to be servants of Abaddon.

Also unlikely to be the Great Destroyer, as he is a minion of Primordus. Having said that, it's also unlikely to be the Dragons themselves, as there are more than two of them buried out there in Tyria.

Naturally we can also discount Kormir, who replaces Abaddon, and the unnamed predecessor of Abaddon.

Anyone have any clues as to the identity of these missing two gods?

[Apologies if this question has been posted before. Searched Lore but found nothing].

NumberOfTheBeast · May 12, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

plus the dragons are servants of the gods I thought

Mist Walker Skarloc · May 12, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NumberOfTheBeast

plus the dragons are servants of the gods I thought

But they're not very nice, are they? They do turn Norn into Nornbears and command the destroyers to eradicate all life on Tyria, after all.

Maybe you're right, I don't know a huge deal about the dragons, but it seems odd the gods would let their servants do what the dragons do (and we'll most likely end up fighting them in GW2).

Nazar Razak · May 12, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

shouldnt the title be "Seven gods not Five?"

nembool · May 12, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazar Razak

shouldnt the title be "Seven gods not Five?"

I'm counting Abaddon as the sixth god, a reference made often in Nightfall.

Nazar Razak · May 12, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Ah yes, I forgot about Abaddon.
As for the missing gods. Maybe the great dwarf was one of them? I forgot about the others.

jayson · May 12, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Wasn't there mention before of an unused storyline regarding a spider god?

BigT · May 12, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Im not sure about the great dwarf being one, Droknar was the great dwarf if im not mistaken and i always assumed that he was just a king and nevet a god.

nembool · May 12, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazar Razak

Ah yes, I forgot about Abaddon.
As for the missing gods. Maybe the great dwarf was one of them? I forgot about the others.

I'd considered that and it might be plausible given the events of the Eye of the North storyline. When Jalis Ironhammer uses the Hammer of the Great Dwarf to transform the Deldrimor Dwarves, he uses the phrase "We are all the Great Dwarf now". Given that the Hammer has lain dormant in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks for some time prior to its liberation by the players, maybe the Great Dwarf WAS one of the gods defeated by Abaddon, and the Hammer is one of the few relics (perhaps along with the Tome of Rubicon) left of him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayson

Wasn't there mention before of an unused storyline regarding a spider god?

Not something I've heard of. Care to post a link or some details?

StormDragonZ · May 12, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Dwanya, Melandru, Lyssa, Balthazar, Grenth... and...

The Great Dwarf is a god, right?
The Goddess of Truth has the name goddess...
Titans are considered gods, right?

nembool · May 12, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

Dwanya, Melandru, Lyssa, Balthazar, Grenth... and...

The Great Dwarf is a god, right?
The Goddess of Truth has the name goddess...
Titans are considered gods, right?

You might have missed the point. The link I posted speaks of two gods defeated by Abaddon BEFORE the five gods cast him into Torment.

The Goddess of Truth clearly can't be one of the missing two gods, as she didn't exist until Abaddon was destroyed/dethroned.

I've also discounted Titans, as they are servants of Abaddon, despite the Charr worshipping them as gods at one point. Clearly they are not gods, as the players defeat them in Hells Precipice and the Titan Quests.

As I mentioned before, the Great Dwarf has merit in possibly being one of the missing two gods, although there's no direct evidence to back this up.

Sleeper Service · May 13, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

god of :

- life

- Death

- Chaos/Energy

- Nature

- War/Battle/Fire

Abbadon - Secrets/lies

Kormir - Truth/knowledge

Great Dwarf = God of Stone/Strength (?)

well thats how i break them down.

seeing that even though Kormir replaces Abbadon she does not really replace him.

maybe Tyria needs a god of secrets/lies and will generate one again eventually.

i think there are two BIG missing ones as it stands though.

God of Air, sky, messenger god?

God of Water, Oceans. There HAS to be one.

I dont think Anet really though this through when they created the gods but any civilization that has a god of fire will have one for each of their known elements as well (either combined or separate).

Looking at the concept art of Chapter 4 i think its probable that Anet was going to perhaps introduce us to two more gods of the pantheon.

Sun god. (Aztec inspired)

Time god. (Chronomancer Class)

nembool · May 13, 2008, 01:34 AM // 01:34

From GW Wiki:-
Balthazar: God of war and fire
Dwayna: Goddess of life and air
Grenth: God of death and ice, defeated Dhuum to obtain this position
Lyssa: Twin goddess of beauty and illusion.
Melandru: Goddess of nature and earth

So there already is a goddess of Air, and Abaddon himself was god of Water (but Grenth took this particular domain over and became god of Ice/Cold).

Interesting ideas with regards to the cancelled Utopia. Might be possible that the two missing gods were to have been included there, maybe as fallen gods after defeat by Abaddon?

Another interesting snippet from Wiki:-
Abaddon is the former God of Secrets. He used to be among the six Gods of Tyria, as the God of Water and Knowledge. However, he was visited by The Seers of Twilight, who told him how to defeat the other Gods, he failed in his attempt and was banished to the Realm of Torment. He remained the god of secrets during his imprisonment, while Grenth ruled over water as the God of Cold.

Who, or what, are/were the Seers of Twilight? Some sort of group dedicated to the destruction of the gods? Perhaps the Dragons?

Ekelon · May 13, 2008, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

god of :

- life

- Death

- Chaos/Energy

- Nature

- War/Battle/Fire

Abbadon - Secrets/lies

Kormir - Truth/knowledge

Great Dwarf = God of Stone/Strength (?)

well thats how i break them down.

seeing that even though Kormir replaces Abbadon she does not really replace him.

maybe Tyria needs a god of secrets/lies and will generate one again eventually.

i think there are two BIG missing ones as it stands though.

God of Air, sky, messenger god?

God of Water, Oceans. There HAS to be one.

I dont think Anet really though this through when they created the gods but any civilization that has a god of fire will have one for each of their known elements as well (either combined or separate).

Looking at the concept art of Chapter 4 i think its probable that Anet was going to perhaps introduce us to two more gods of the pantheon.

Sun god. (Aztec inspired)

Time god. (Chronomancer Class)

What about the god of Earth, Ground, Dust? If you have fire, and suggest water and air, then there must be Earth (elementalist atts).

The sun god might be a good one, cuz all of elona became dark (hence the name nightfall) probably in the beginning. Of course, if the sun god was destroyed then there wouldn't be light now either.

Sleeper Service · May 13, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

thing is apart from wiki we (well i certainly didnt) get the impression that Dwayna and Abbadon really took their "elemental" responsibilities seriously.

but maybe i missed out on critical text (i doubt it), not that im contesting it...it makes sense but its not forcibly what Anet had in mind (since they left it so vague, IE: they had nothing in mind).

Melandru is no doubt the god of nature. Gaia in RL terms and thus by extension "Earth" but not "Rock" (which Gaia is a part of here).

Its weird, God lore in GW is kinda like they took bits of the colours from MTG and gave them an avatar. Even adding the legendary 6th colour (Abbadon/purple) and at the same time....gave up 1/3 of the way through.

sorry im rambling.

I dont feel that Anet would have gone and given us the 2 gods overthrown by Abbadon spiel for C4. The world and lore of Tyria is sufficiently vague for them to be able to add new stuff whenever they want and just introduce them as " far away other gods looked upon these brave heroes with interest..." etc.

its easy, which is partly or even fully the reason for which lore is soooooo imprecise. so they could just tack on new chapters quickly.

Randvek · May 13, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ekelon

What about the god of Earth, Ground, Dust?

Melandru. He just overlooked that aspect of her portfolio, is all.

Mist Walker Skarloc · May 13, 2008, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

God of Air, sky, messenger god?

God of Water, Oceans. There HAS to be one.

The closest thing to air would be Dwayna, she's the goddess of life, warmth AND air.

As for water, Abaddon's the god of secrets/knowledge/magic and water.
By the way, I didn't know Abaddon was the god of lies? Maybe he is, but I always thought he, being the god of secrets, gave truthful knowledge to his followers that he should have kept secret. He did, after all, give mortals magic and he did give them too much which is why the other gods were pissed with him.

Sleeper Service · May 13, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mist Walker Skarloc

The closest thing to air would be Dwayna, she's the goddess of life, warmth AND air.

As for water, Abaddon's the god of secrets/knowledge/magic and water.
By the way, I didn't know Abaddon was the god of lies? Maybe he is, but I always thought he, being the god of secrets, gave truthful knowledge to his followers that he should have kept secret. He did, after all, give mortals magic and he did give them too much which is why the other gods were pissed with him.

youre right but in the end he sure came across as a big fat liar.

evenfall · May 13, 2008, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by nembool

I've been reading the Lore sections on GW Wiki and found the following:-

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tyria_%28world%29

The first section states that Abaddon defeated two of the gods, but was in turn defeated by the combined power of the other five. We know that the five were Dwayna, Balthazar, Grenth, Lyssa and Melandru. So who were the other two?

They are unlikely to be Dhuum and Menzies, as both of these are explicitly stated as working with Abaddon in other lore sections. I find it unlikely that they would work with Abaddon if they were defeated by him previously, gods being capricious and all. Plus of course, Dhuum was supplanted by Grenth and would ally with Abaddon against the other gods (or Grenth at least). Menzies is never specifically referred to as a god, according to Wiki, so I discount him too.

Also unlikely to be the Titans, despite them being referred to as Charr gods, as we know them to be servants of Abaddon.

Also unlikely to be the Great Destroyer, as he is a minion of Primordus. Having said that, it's also unlikely to be the Dragons themselves, as there are more than two of them buried out there in Tyria.

Naturally we can also discount Kormir, who replaces Abaddon, and the unnamed predecessor of Abaddon.

Anyone have any clues as to the identity of these missing two gods?

[Apologies if this question has been posted before. Searched Lore but found nothing].

I looked around for the source of that lore, and I believe the author of that article just worded it badly. Abaddon defeated two of the five gods, not two other gods.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Abaddon
Although Abaddon was strong enough to defeat the joint forces of two gods, he still could not withstand the power of all five gods united.

The original source is the ncsoft taiwan gw website.

Free Runner · May 13, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Abbadon defeated two of the five gods but was defeated when the other 3 joined in. Its best to read the actual source of the information rather than the wiki. There are only 6 True Gods.