Curse

Konig Des Todes · Jun 09, 2008, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I. Armies of Undead

The undead are spread throughout the world of Tyria and the Rift. Of course nearly everything in the Rift would be considered undead, as ghosts are as well. For the sake of simplicity, I will separate the undead into two main factions, “Tyrian Undead” and “Rift Undead.” The difference is explained in the titles.

Tyrian Undead

These Undead are the ones that are encountered in the World of Tyria, in other words, those not in the Realm of the Gods. These undead can then be split into the categories of “Army Based” and “Restless” undead. The Restless would be simple ghosts that cannot move on, much like the ones I discussed in one of my previous threads, Spirits. Where do they go after they "die?". These undead can be then be divided into their location, which would be “Ascalonian Restless” and “Crystal Desert Restless” (I do not include “Desolation Restless” because the Desolation is part of the Crystal Desert). The Restless doesn’t need much more discussion.

The “Army Based” groups are simply all of the hostile undead that are in an army, as the name suggests. Such armies include the Lich’s Army, Joko’s Army, the undead who rebel against Joko, Fendi Nin’s army, among others. These Armies can be put into the categories of Orrian, Desolation, and Depths armies.

Tyrian Undead

Restless Undead
Ascalonian Restless
Crystal Desert Restless
Army Based Undead
Orrian Army
Vizier Khilbron’s Army
Fendi Nin’s Army
Desolation Army
Palawa Joko’s Army
Rebel Army
Depths Army
Murakai’s Army
Zoldark’s Army
Selvetarm’s Army*

*It is never mentioned that Selvetarm actually controls these undead, however they only appear in his level, so it is very possible.

Rift Undead

This group is easier to categorize then the Tyrian Undead. That is because there are a lot less, as the area of the Rift we can go to is far less then that on Tyria. These undead mostly belong to Dhuum, or is guessed to belong to Dhuum. The undead believed to be under Dhuum’s control are in all of the Rift areas we are able to access, excluding the Fissure of Woe. These areas are the Domain of Anguish (Foundry of Failed Creations), the Tombs of Primeval Kings(All levels), and the Underworld (mostly the Chaos Plains and Ice Wastes). The only Undead that are in the Rift that are not under the control of Dhuum are the Skeleton Army. With that, we can categorize the Rift Undead.

Rift Undead

Dhuum’s Army
Domain of Anguish
Underworld
Tombs of Primeval Kings
Shing Jea Island
Skeleton Army
Fissure of Woe

II. Lich Lords

One thing I have always wondered since Nightfall came out, was how did Palawa Joko become a Lich Lord himself and what is his history? And when Eye of the North came out, I wondered where Zoldark came from, and how Murakai is able to control the other undead.

Sadly, the question for Zoldark and Murakai are still unknown to me, as is Palawa’s human life. However, through looking at Vizier Khilbron, it is possible to see how one becomes a lich. Vizier Khilbron became a Lich himself by casting that powerful spell that created the Cataclysm. So that means that a very ancient and powerful spell can turn oneself into a Lich, in the Guild Wars universe at least that much is known. By looking up Lich on wikipedia, it says:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

n modern fantasy fiction, a lich (IPA: /ˈlɪtʃ/) (sometimes spelled liche, cognate to German Leiche"corpse") is a type of undead creature, usually formerly a powerful magician or king, who has used evil rituals to bind his intellect to his animated corpse and thereby achieve a perverse form of immortality.

That meaning of a lich does not fit with Vizier Khilbron, at least of what we know, but he did use a powerful spell to turn himself into a lich. That means that Palawa Joko (and Zoldark as well) did the same method.

With the aftermath of Khilbron turning into a Lich (The Cataclysm) then Palawa Joko might have created a similar event to occur, which might even be the reason why that spell was forbidden. It is possible it was even the same spell that turned Palawa Joko into a Lich himself. Looking at the timeline of Tyria, in order to find the origin of Palawa Joko, it would be a good guess to look for a past disaster that occurred before Joko’s first reign.

The first mention of Joko is in 757 AE, about 300 years before current time in Guild Wars. Keeping the research to Elona only, the first disaster to occur before Joko’s mention is the Scarab Plauge, before that is the creation of the Crystal Desert and Desolation, however that was caused by Abaddon’s fall, not a spell. Other then those two events, there are no recorded disasters in the timeline.

If joko was the cause of the scarab plague through making himself a lich, that means that he is from Istan, as that is where the Scarab Plague originated. Also, seeing how "the royal family was eradicated" then it is likely that Joko could have been in that royalty, which would show that he had leadership before becoming a Lich. If the Scarab Plague was caused by Joko becoming a lich, then that means that Joko lived as a human around 452 AE, which then would mean that he is about 600 years old.

With that in mind, that either means that the effect of a spell that turns one into a Lich either isn’t limited to a simple giant explosion like the Cataclysm, or it can be not as deadly, possibly just killing oneself and being automatically resurrected as an undead that kept his will and that is powerful enough to control others.

III. Difference between Minions and other Undead

The most obvious difference is that Minions have degenerating life, other undead do not. One difference that I have noticed other then the aforementioned is that, when their master dies, minions go rampant and attack anything and everything, in other words, they are like the Destroyers after the Great Destroyer’s death, mindless killing machines. However, other undead do not go rampant and attack anything and everything, as evident by Joko’s defeat by Turai. Although Joko was not killed, the bonds between master and servants were broken. Although all of the undead in the desolation were technically free from Joko, some stayed loyal to Joko and did not rebel like many others did. Other then that, I cannot find any other differences, both are undead (obviously) some have flesh, some do not, and lastly they all much have a master in order to coordinate things. Those are the only the real differences between a Minion and other Undead.

Edit:
Although it's not GW undead, here is a link that has some information about undead that I found rather interesting (mainly the "intelligence" of undead part). It may take a few reloads to show it all due to high graphics and whatnot used in the page (Blizzard being fancy eh?).

Thanks for reading this research I have done.

Pesi · Jun 09, 2008, 09:22 AM // 09:22

okei? uhm, this it the third one u've done hehe.. this one i dont bother to read.
still waiting for the dredge research

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jun 15, 2008, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Well how are these undead created, The necro skills dont create acuall unded IMO, seeing as a giant yak and dwarf make a little rigcage monster, I think they just reanimte some bits of flesh for a while. These undead that do not degen and obviously retain more knowledge (can use skills). Another thing not really related is what exactly are the origins of the Skelton FoW army. They are hostile towards shadow army and are the only enemys that it appears are not controlled by Menzies, witch could be argued for most of the fire forests enemys/drakes, but they are not hostile towards his forces at any rate.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 15, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

The Skeleton Army in the FoW is truely a mistery, there is nothing on their origins that I can find, if someone else does, please post it in the thread

. As for how "true undead" are made, although not 100% certain, I believe that it was said somewhere that those undead are created by putting restless souls into bodies, might be wrong (I believe it was either Oberan, Joko, or Vizier Khilbron that mentioned it, I'll have to look around)

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jun 16, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Well I have a random idea on skellys, the place is called the battlefield, so Maybe they are balthazars ex warriors that where killed when menzies waged war. And are stuck as they cannot go to the afterlife cause they are already in the rift or something. Or they are all the previous adventuring partys that went in w/o ursan xD

Also: When Vizier makes undead he uses the staff of orr, joko also has a staff. Maybe it is power help within the staff. Also with teh exception of Oberan (who does look kinda undead, plus he doesnt exactly have an army of undead) both Vizier and Joko are undead themselves. Perhaps ypu have to be be a powerful undead to animate your own.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 16, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

Well I have a random idea on skellys, the place is called the battlefield, so Maybe they are balthazars ex warriors that where killed when menzies waged war. And are stuck as they cannot go to the afterlife cause they are already in the rift or something. Or they are all the previous adventuring partys that went in w/o ursan xD

joke or not, I disagree. The reason why it can't be Balthazar's ex-warriors is because his warriors are mostly (if not all) spirits, which when they are killed, most likely are "recycled" into the mists. Also, when mortal creatures were to die in the rift, their spirit would just skip a step in the process of the Spirit's life cycle that I sort of paraphrase in this thread(ignore the joke +1 posts in that thread, those things get annoying).

Quote:

Also: When Vizier makes undead he uses the staff of orr, joko also has a staff. Maybe it is power help within the staff. Also with teh exception of Oberan (who does look kinda undead, plus he doesnt exactly have an army of undead) both Vizier and Joko are undead themselves. Perhaps ypu have to be be a powerful undead to animate your own.

When looking at it as simply as you are, I would say its the power of becoming a Lich. Mainly because Khilbron raises and controls the undead before he gets the scepter of orr as well (Undead Army anyone?). Also, there is Oberan to look at, the undead in the Catacombs are all supposedly under his control, or at least his influence, and not to mention Oberan's Minions in a few post searing quests. He is neither a Lich nor has a powerful staff, which throws both ideas into disarray.

Free Runner · Jun 16, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

Well I have a random idea on skellys, the place is called the battlefield, so Maybe they are balthazars ex warriors that where killed when menzies waged war. And are stuck as they cannot go to the afterlife cause they are already in the rift or something. Or they are all the previous adventuring partys that went in w/o ursan xD

Also: When Vizier makes undead he uses the staff of orr, joko also has a staff. Maybe it is power help within the staff. Also with teh exception of Oberan (who does look kinda undead, plus he doesnt exactly have an army of undead) both Vizier and Joko are undead themselves. Perhaps ypu have to be be a powerful undead to animate your own.

Ignoreing the Ursan comment this is plausable. Just because Balthazar currently has the Eternals does not mean he never had other armies. Considering its known as "The Battlefield" its possible that these are soldiers of Balthazar that clung to life. As evidenced by the huge amount of skeletons littering the floor, some never became undead so perhaps these are the ones who accepted. It should be noted that the Undead in Fissure of Woe are hostile to everything and have no side. They just patrol the battlefield,killing anything that draws near.

Remember that when Orr originally sank there was said to be undead and spirits roaming the remains of Orr.Its possible for humans to control Undead however like shown with Oberan this is forbidden and it sometimes ends up for the worst.

Necromancy is only allowed up to the point of Minions which are shambles of bone and flesh raised for a limited time. These are fueled by power and the loss of the Master makes them run amock until their time is up. Actual Undead are those who have been brought back from death and in most cases controlled to do the one who raised thems bidding. So the big difference in Minions and Undead is that the Undead are actual beings brought back while Minions are simply flesh and bone which only serves one purpose.

Gmr Leon · Jun 16, 2008, 09:16 PM // 21:16

People seem to forget that Orr was the most devout nation in terms of worship of the Five Gods. It's likely that those in the Orrian army were dedicated to Balthazar more than any other army in Tyria and when the Cataclysm occurred they were brought into the Fissure of Woe. I almost suspect that any soldier can go to the Fissure of Woe if they're fighting in battle, devout worshipers of Balthazar, are not about to give up, and a sudden event kills them during this battle.

Ex. Soldier fighting a Charr and a random human Elementalist kills him with a Meteor. He pops up in the Fissure of Woe because he met the specifications I outlined.

That's just speculation, however.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Jun 17, 2008, 01:14 AM // 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

joke or not, I disagree. The reason why it can't be Balthazar's ex-warriors is because his warriors are mostly (if not all) spirits, which when they are killed, most likely are "recycled" into the mists. Also, when mortal creatures were to die in the rift, their spirit would just skip a step in the process of the Spirit's life cycle that I sort of paraphrase in this thread(ignore the joke +1 posts in that thread, those things get annoying).

But where they always spirits, Sure the spirit may go to the mists but most people have physical bodys too. Those would be left behind.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 17, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

But where they always spirits, Sure the spirit may go to the mists but most people have physical bodys too. Those would be left behind.

And as I said (or implied I should say), their spirits would just go to the Rift instead of staying in the mortal world.

Those with mortal bodies would just have their spirits placed in the rift, at their current location, so instead of: Body->Death->Roaming Spirit->Escorted->Rift->Spirit's Death->Mists
It would be: Body->Death->Rift->Spirit's Death->Mists

Their bodies are there but there isn't much of an outside force to put the spirits into the bodies, although Free Runner has a good point with what he said. But I personally disagree with that idea, but that doesn't mean it is incorrect.

BrettM · Sep 05, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I find it interesting that you date the origin of Palawa Joko to the time of the Scarab Plague. I had also reached the same conclusion through a different chain of evidence: statements made by spirits hanging around the Gates of Desolation outpost. I'm only about halfway through Nightfall right now, so I can only hope that more information bearing on Joko and his origins will be revealed as I go.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 05, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I find it interesting that you date the origin of Palawa Joko to the time of the Scarab Plague. I had also reached the same conclusion through a different chain of evidence: statements made by spirits hanging around the Gates of Desolation outpost. I'm only about halfway through Nightfall right now, so I can only hope that more information bearing on Joko and his origins will be revealed as I go.

The only information on Joko there is, is in Kourna and the Desolation basically. A tiny bit in Vabbi *at the Chantry of Secrets, you can get a quest chain after a bit*. Don't get your hopes up, most of his small amount of information comes from side-quests in the Desolation.