Curse

BrettM · Dec 04, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Now that I've finally gotten a character to the Far Shiverpeaks and seen a little bit of the Depths of Tyria, I've gotten very curious about their origin. A few threads have touched on this, though it is generally brushed off as "some unknown civilization". The Gold Statues of the Gods thread got into it in more depth, but I thought it would be going too far OT for that thread to continue the discussion there. I couldn't find a dedicated thread, and I think the topic deserves one.

What do we know about the Depths?

1. There are statues and artworks depicting the True Gods, as well as humans.

2. The Depths were occupied as recently as the time of King Dorian, given that there is at least one artwork (in the Cathedral of Flames) depicting King Dorian and his plea to the gods. This also shows that the inhabitants at that time (who were not necessarily the builders) were familiar with events on the surface.

3. Both the Asura (via their gates) and the Dwarves currently have access to these areas, but there is no sign that either have actually dwelled there, or even made any other significant use of them.

Do we have any other facts that bear on the topic? It would be useful, I think, to catalog all the facts before getting into the questions they raise and seeing what kinds of hypotheses can be built using them.

Neo Atomisk · Dec 04, 2008, 05:10 PM // 17:10

the asura lived in the depths, and most likely used golems to build parts of the depths. Also the dwarves are known to have constructed many dungeons.
I'm also sure that the charr and humans assisted in some ways.

dilan155 · Dec 04, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

i also think its a combination of all of the different races that helped to build id.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 07:47 PM // 19:47

As said in the other thread dedicated to this, the Depths of Tyria as a whole was not made by one race.

Some are Natural (most), some are Charr (at most 4), some are humans (such as Shards of Orr), some are Asuran (Oola's Lab and Hidden Lair), there are Dwarven (Seplchure(sp?) of Dragrimmar, Darkim Delves, Slavers'), rest are pretty much unknown.

I could list them, but I am in a rush atm. Later!

Free Runner · Dec 04, 2008, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Your post is kind of confusing - the Depths of Tyria are made up of different areas rather than being something someone built. Some areas such as the Raven Shrine area, were dug out by the Norn. Some by the Dwarves (and the Stone Summit). Some by the Asura who lived in the depths before the Destroyers surfaced.

There are also some areas such as Vloxen Excavations that have been dug into so much that they have unearthed Temples built deep underground (with evil forces dwelling within). So most of the dungeosn that make up the Depths are made by different races for shrines, power or just a place to call a home.

Now if you meant who built the underground areas beneath Lions Arch, Kamadan and Kaineng then it could be a variaty of races:

- The Asura who are known to have dwelled somewere in the Depths (or possibly all over the Depths). The only foil to this is the god statue found in the area - the Asura dont worship the gods.

- The Forgotten who are known to have been the caretakers of Tyria before the humans came.

- Humans. Along with the statue of Melandru there are statues of an unknown person who appears to be human. This statue is found in quite a few areas such as Shards of Orr. A group of humans lead by this person could of made their home down in the depths. Another possiblity is that the underground areas were built to aid in wars (Perhaps even in a guild war or two).

As for Dungeons here is my belief of which was built by what:

Catacombs of Kathandrax - Dwarves
Rragers Meangre - Charr
Cathedral of Flames - Charr
Ooze Pit - Natural - Eventually inhabited by Jelly
Darkrime Delves - Dwarves/Jotun
Frostmaw's Burrows - Wurms/Humans
Bloodstone Caves - Unknown
Shards of Orr - Humans
Sepulchre of Dragrimmar - Dwarves
Bogroot Growths - Natural - Eventually inhabited by Frogmen
Arachnis Haunt - Arachnid's
Oolas Lab - Asura
Heart of the Shiverpeaks - Dwarves
Vloxen Exacavations - Dwarves/Unknown Force (Possibly Humans)
Ravens Point - Norn/Dwarves

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Now that I have time, I shall list my belief/what is known.

Catacombs of Kathandrax - Charr/Natural

Rragar's Menagerie - Charr

Cathedral of Flames - Charr

Ooze Pit - Charr (abandoned - you find structures in there)

Darkrime Delves - Jotun/Stone Summit/Natural

Frostmaw's Burrows - Natural/Unknkown

Sepulchre of Dragrimmar - Dwarves (specifically the Great Dwarf)

Raven's Point - Unknown (used by Norn)

Vloxen Excavations - Unknown (ancient humans?)

Bogroot Growths - Natural/Hekets

Bloodstone Caves - Unknown (possible Mursaat)

Shards of Orr - Human (specificallly Orrian and Corsair)

Oola's Lab - Asuran

Arachni's Haunt - Natural (specifically spider made)/unknown (structures are found there)

Slavers' Exile (elite) - Unknown/Stone Summit

Fronis Irontoe's Lair - Stone Summit

Secret Lair of the Snowmen - Snowmen!

Heart of the Shiverpeaks - Natural/Dwarves

Sorrow's Furnace - Stone Summit/Dredge

Underneath LA - Natural/Unknown (Forgotten and Humans are best bets)

Underneath KC - Human/Unknown (Forgotten or just Humans are best bets)

Underneath Kamadan - Natural/Unknown (Forgotten and Humans are best bets)

Zinn's Lair - Asuran

Also, Free Runner, "frogmen" are known as Hekets

Toutatis · Dec 04, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

There is one thing about part of the Depths that I noticed; specifically, about the dungeons below Lion's Arch, Kaineng Centre and Kamadan.

A great deal of the architecture in those areas looks decidedly Kurzick, utilising the same basic design elements and very similar artistic lines. Though we can also infer that the Kurzicks copied most of their architectural style from an older civilisation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altrumm Ruins outpost description

The vast ruins of Altrumm are thought by most historians to be all that remains of the first great Kurzick city, destroyed by some ancient and mysterious catastrophe. The Kurzicks themselves claim their ancestors did not build the structures found here. If this is true, then Altrumm certainly influenced Kurzick architectural sensibilities.

Hypothesis: Another unknown (either unidentified or undiscovered) civilisation had a hand in shaping the Depths we see today. This civilisation must have had quite some influence to spread its architecture across all three continents, both underground and above ground.

Free Runner · Dec 04, 2008, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Also, Free Runner, "frogmen" are known as Hekets

Hekets are Toads. Gylek and Agari are Frogs. Several NPCs and Signposts also call them Frogmen rather than Heket.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

My mistake then (knew I should have looked into Hekets -and apperently Frogmen - afterall).

Also, added this thread to the Archives.

Lady Lozza · Dec 05, 2008, 12:14 AM // 00:14

The depths are a bit hard to nail down. If you refer to dungeons in general then many of them are natural. There are other parts which are distinctly "man-made" like the huge halls.

In the gold statues thread we did get a little off-topic. But I'm just like that.

One thought for what it is worth, the grand halls might be remains of buildings that stood above ground in ages past.

FoxBat · Dec 05, 2008, 01:16 AM // 01:16

I know this is what you do in this forum, but seriously. In the EotN dungeons, Anet got lazy and copied textures and models willy nilly wherever it "looked cool" and didn't think too hard about the story impications. - heck many of the rooms and entire maps are copied between dungeons. You can't infer anything meaningful from them rehashing old content in odd places. (Although you might learn something from unique content.)

-Old 3FL- · Dec 05, 2008, 02:06 AM // 02:06

Definitely a combination of the different races.

Lady Lozza · Dec 05, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

FoxBat, the location is not an issue at all really. In fact the location and how many times it appears may have no bearing on who built the halls in the first place.

The fact that the textures are copies and that many dungeons have reused areas has little bearing on the question at hand. Obviously Anet said, lets make some dungeons and initially had an idea of where, how, why. We would like to know that, even if we have to do some handwaving to explain how the SAME design ended up in two dugeons on opposite sides of the continent.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 05, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

I know this is what you do in this forum, but seriously. In the EotN dungeons, Anet got lazy and copied textures and models willy nilly wherever it "looked cool" and didn't think too hard about the story impications. - heck many of the rooms and entire maps are copied between dungeons. You can't infer anything meaningful from them rehashing old content in odd places. (Although you might learn something from unique content.)

First, there are rooms in dungeons that are dungeon-unqiue. That is, certain rooms (like the shard room in Shards of Orr, and just about every boss room) is only in one dungeon.

Second, the rooms and levels of a dungeon only limit what made dungeons. Due to the reskins, they are considered, but not called "canon" - that is, if we see something in one dungeon that is in another, we do not say "the same people were in these two locations" but "the same people could have been in these two locations."

Instead of taking each design as "unique," I take them as "generics." That is, if a dungeon has structures, and another dungeon has the same structures, I do not say "these structures are the same, their makers must be influenced by each other if not the same." Instead I say "There are structures in these places."

The reused dungeon level is only an argument against the makers all being the same. Not what is in the dungeon.

That is why I said Ooze Pits was Charr and Natural, there are structures there. However the same structures are found in Heart of the Shiverpeaks, Volxen Excavation, and other places as well. All "generic" structures (one being a possible dwarven, the other being ancient civilization, possibly human) not all being the same "unique" structures.

I hope I wasn't confusing there.

Free Runner · Dec 05, 2008, 08:09 AM // 08:09

It doesnt matter that Anet copied and pasted areas to create dungeons. You can still tell who made or took up residence in a dungeon through the story, enemies within and relics found in each one. For example the Dwarves obviously had something to do with both Dragrimmar and Kathandrax as there are dwarven relics found within each one (one relic that was even used by the Great Dwarf at some point)

Konig Des Todes · Dec 05, 2008, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Free Runner, please point out where it says that the Hammer of Kathandrax has had a past with the Dwarves. Because I do not recall such a thing.

Kemal X · Dec 05, 2008, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

Free Runner, please point out where it says that the Hammer of Kathandrax has had a past with the Dwarves. Because I do not recall such a thing.

"I was sent here with my company by Captain Langmar. It was our mission to recover Kathandrax's Crusher, a great Dwarven weapon."
^
Very first part from the quest giver for that dungeon.
Oh, and you listed Frostmaws Burrows as Natural/Unknown? Wurms are big freakin' burrowing worms, wouldn't it be highly likely they made it? Althought I recall seeing some sort of structures there, but just throwing an idea.

Free Runner · Dec 05, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Thank you Kemal. As shown by that quote, Kathandrax's Crusher is a dwarven weapon (not suprising since most of the powerful hammers belong to the Dwarves)

And on the subject of Frostmaw's Burrows it would appear that the Wurms actually burrowed into the side of a structure that was buried deep underground. Parts of it can be seen further in along with the statue of the human.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 06, 2008, 12:24 AM // 00:24

Huh I don't recall it saying Dwarven hammer. I recall it saying a great ancient hammer.

Perhaps it was changed in the past? Or I'm just going senile at the age of 18...

Free Runner · Dec 06, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

The Heroes Handbook refers to it as a "legendary weapon". The quest NPC has always called it a Dwarven weapon. Kinda interesting when you think about it - the Anvil of Dragrimmar was guarded by a powerful Ice Elemental and Kathandrax's Crusher is guarded by a powerful Fire Elemental.