Curse

Free Runner · Dec 14, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

At Halloween I did a thread on Mad king Thorn, the king of Halloween, which was rather fun. Considering Wintersday is bigger and has many more stories to be told I figured I would do a thread for it aswell. Keep in mind that it brinkers on the border of fun and lore.

"Wintersday is coming..."
"The White Mantle are getting fat..."
"Please put a gold coin..."
"In the old man's hat..."
"If you haven't got a coin..."
"Half a coin of gold will do..."
"If you haven't got half a coin..."
"Dwayna's blessings be with you."

The Idea of Wintersday

Wintersday is an event that takes place at the end of the Mouvelian Calendar. The idea of Wintersday is that the two gods, Dwayna, goddess of Life and Air and Grenth, god of Death and Cold battle for the oncoming season – should Dwayna win the Winter will end and warmth and light will be brought to Tyria. However should Grenth win, the winter will be prolonged and Tyria will be shrouded in an icy darkness for the coming months.

Wintersday only takes place in Tyria, Elona and some areas of Northen Tyria. Cantha does not seem to celebrate this, much like how it doesn’t celebrate Halloween. While many would find it odd that snow appears in Elona, it is explained In The Scribe that this is actually the work of Hydromancers.

Dwaynas followers will do whatever they can to bring in Spring, while Grenths followers will pull out all the stops to stop Dwayna, and plunge Tyria into an extended winter. Dwayna is known to constantly beat Grenth….however that changed one Wintersday.

Grenths Win

For over fifty years (the year that this started is unknown) Dwayna constantly beat Grenth at Wintersday, due to a mass of Dwayna supporters that were gathered in Kryta. No matter what, Grenths followers were beaten over and over causing his icy grasp on Tyria to be loosened each time.
Grenths followers became sick of their constant losses and so they devised a wicked plan – Grenth would win the coming Wintersday for sure!. Grenths followers created presents for Dwaynas clergy and brought them to Dwaynas temples.

They claimed that since Dwayna was destined to win, they would join her side bringing presents for the clergy to show their conversion. Dwaynas follower, known to believe the best in everyone, were delighted that their enemies had become their allies. They ripped into the presents……

Before the clergy realised it, they had fallen for the trick of Grenths supporters. Each clergy was consumed and trapped inside each present. The clergy, trapped inside the presents could not appear at Wintersday. When no clergymen appeared the citizens lost hope and turned their backs on Dwayna. They abandoned all hope and decided not to fight – and with this Grenth won his first Wintersday. The clergymen were released soon after, into Grenths winter.

After this Dwaynas teachings taught something else – that one should never accept a gift from a follower of Grenth. This event set the small battles between followers.

Allies of Dwayna

Other than the human followers of Dwayna, she also has some special allies. These are the Brrrls, enchanted snowmen who are blessed by Dwayna to keep Grenths creatures at bay, and in some cases, large polar bears.

The Brrrls hail from the Secret Lair of the Snowman that is hidden in the Far Shiverpeaks of North Tyria and make up the "biggest" force of Dwaynas Wintersday servants. Despite being followers of Dwayna they are led by the most powerful Brrl snowman in existance – Freezie.

Freezie

Freezie is a Brrrl of immense power that is first found in the quest “The Greatest Snowman Ever Made”. In this quest he is summoned by using magical artifacts (the magic hat of a failed magician, a Pipe made from the bones of a powerful frost giant and 2 pieces of coal from a defeated Titan) and the wish of a child.

Children in Istan hear of Freezies appearence in Tyria and attempt to upstage him by making a better Freezie - however this fails and all they manage to make are lesser Brrrls (which are immediatly destroyed by the Grentch)

His quest makes out that he is first made here but my belief is that he existed long before it. This is because he is found in the Secret Lair multiple times indicating he is the overall leader. If he is indeed the same Brrl appearing over and over, this would mean he is pretty much immortal.

Brrrls

“All those who walk in our hallowed halls face death! Right In the eye!”

Brrrls are heroic snowmen charged with defending against Grenths forces. The Brrrls appear to be led by Freezie in the Secret Lair of the Snowmen. They take on the exact appearance of Freezie albeit in smaller form. They come in may different professions and show an intense hatred (or at least what they can muster) for Grentch.

Wintersday Helper

Wintersday helpers are actually the effects of the tonic “Yuletide Tonic”. They take on the form of an elf. Other than being a tonic they dont make any other appearences but the tonic could imply that they are a “behind the scenes” force. Afterall those presents have to be delivered by someone right? But In the end its all down to individual interpretation.

Ursula The White

Ursula the White is a powerful Polar Bear who leads the Protectors of Wintersday. She doesn’t appear to have any other powers apart from being stronger than the Brrls that are with her. Her alliegence could mean that there are other Polar Bears who are sided with Dwayna.

Its possible Ursula is actually a Jingle Bear which would appear to be a polar bear that only appears at Wintersday.

Longhair Yeti

Strangely enough, Longhair Yetis are also alongside the Protectors of Wintersday. The exact reason for their aid in unknown but it could mean that some Yetis follow Dwayna and actually paticipate in Wintersday.

Wintersday Clergymen

The Human Preists and Preistess's appear in the major towns to spread Dwaynas cheer. They are shown to be a vital part of Dwaynas side - they are the ones who bring hope to the masses. The Preists and Priestess's offer gifts in exchange for services - mostly stopping other races from spoiling Wintersday or putting an end to tricks played out be Grenth supporters.

Frost Maiden

The Frost Maiden is an Istani girl whos exact role isnt specified. She helps out Grandfather Kringle when his gift to Dwayna, the reindeers, are taken by the Grentch. Due to her name i can only presume she is like the clergymen, but instead taking a more active role in the battle. She may also be the one who tends to the Reindeers.

Reindeer

Reindeers, while not actual alllies of Dwayna, play a part i nWintersday. Her followers offer the Reindeer as gifts. Why Dwayna would want Reindeers as a gift or even how she would get these reindeers is unknown.

Amongst the reindeer there is a special one - Rudi (Yes you know where hes from) Rudi's nose lights up when close to presents and so he is a vital part of stoppign the Grentch. Its psosible that due to his...."power" he is actullay kept specially.

Allies of Grenth

Aside from his wicked human supporters (who can be found spiking egg nog, making Grentchies, destroying snowmen, worshipping at a secret altar below Droknars Forge and well...pretty much being mean), Grenth like Dwayna also has his own magical followers. These are the Grentch, a race of demonic imps who would like nothing more than to destroy the Wintersday cheer. Grenth also has the Humbugs – a race of Scarabs.

Something to note is that Grenth has less followers than Dwayna. This is probably the reason why he loses so often - rather than trying to gather more followers, Grenths side seem to take pleasure in causing chaos for the other side.

Grentchus Magnus

Grentchus Magnus is a powerful Grentch leader. His name means “Great Grentch”. Like Freezie, he has been seen leading the Grentch onto assaults and guarding stolen presents. Why he is the most powerful is unknown but he appears to be anywere that a great “attack” on Wintersday is to be held at.

Grentch

"It's time to wreak havoc, it's time to spread fear, it's time to make all of the gifts disappear. So take me to where I might find those filled with light, the Dwayna supporters who are merry and bright. Let us make mischief, oh such fun we shall find, ruining this holiday for the sweet and the kind!"

Grentch are the unholy servants of Grenth, who know only fear, death and hatred. Their hearts are 3 sizes smaller than a humans and they love nothing more than to ruin Wintersday.

A normal Human can became a Grentch after drinking a special potion. This human (or Grentch) will then be forced to serve Grenth and carry out some Wintersday mischeif. They are sometimes found attacking Brrrls in the Far Shiverpeaks. This indicates that they have a lair nearby or that they have been sent to find the Lair of the Snowmen (which eventually succeeds).

Necromancers

The Necromancers, like Dwaynas Clergymen, are the Human followers of Grenth. They appear in major towns and entice people to join their side. All the while they offer goods for jobs that usually involve playing tricks on Dwaynas supporters.

The Necromancers apparantly have a shrine to Grenth in the caverns below Droknars Forge. This is one of their gathering points.

Humbug

Humbugs are scarabs that serve as allies to the Grentch. Not much is known about them, other than the fact the Grentchies use them to play tricks on people.

The Neutral Force

There is one force that is neutral in the fight. This is the Rift Warden. The Rift Warden allows access to any areas where greater battles are taking place. He indicates its his “duty” to – which is why I believe he was sent by both Dwayna and Grenth. I believe he was sent by Grenth to ensure his attacks would hit well (Grentchus Magnus says that they must attack the Snowmens Lair quick before Dwayna finds out). Due to Grenth sending him I believe Dwayna also gave him the mission of gaining more allies for the Brrls to stop the Grentchs assault (meaning she found out).
Whatever the case he doesn’t appear to side with anyone and just does his job.

Races

There are some races who do appear to try taking part in Wintersday. There are also some who try to disrupt Wintersday. Heres a list of the known races (with Dwayna, Grenth or Disruption placed next to them!).

Dredge - Dwayna)

Dwarves - Dwayna

Humans - Dwayna/Grenth - Corsairs despite being Humans, do not take part in Wintersday

Grawl - Disruption, suspected by some to actually have made a deal with Grenth to stop Dwaynas win

Tengu - Do not take part

Stone Summit - Do not take part - Stop the Dredge revolts from celebrating

Charr - Do not take part -Continue their attacks on Ascalon throughout Wintersday much to the anoyance of a certain Preistess. Through the Eye of the North quests it would appear the Charr, while not celebrating Wintersday, do see it as the Season of Death

Yeti - Dwayna - its currently unknown if the whole race celebrates Wintersday or just the select few who call themselves Wintersday Protectors

Norn - The Norn do not actually celebrate Wintersday, however it is not above them to get involved

Snowmen - Dwayna - The magical servants of Dwayna

Grentch - Grenth - The magical servants of Grenth

The Battle

In the end the Wintersday battle comes down to Grenth and Dwayna sending their avatars to areas of great interest (Lions Arch and Kamadan, Jewel of Istan). This battle is no ordanary one – it is a gathering. The god who has the most followers will win the day and bring/stop Winter. Its not actually explained how this works – its just a fun event afterall so theres no need to burdan it with great explanations. But my theory is that it has something to do with the amount of cheer in an area. The reason Grenth and Dwayna gather in the most populated areas must be to ensure a great population. And then they entice each side with tricks and presents.

So my theory is that Wintersday cheer stops Grenths power over Winter. The more followers a god has the more cheer or hatred gathers. The fact that his first ever win was when morale was lower than ever helps this a little.

Discussion

Like the Mad King thread, this is only a thread with discussion. I want to ask the following:

- What do you think influences the outcome of Wintersday?

- Are Dwayna and Grenth constantly active during Wintersday?

Konig Des Todes · Dec 15, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Freezie

His quest makes out that he is first made here but my belief is that he existed long before it. This is because he is found in the Secret Lair multiple times indicating he is the overall leader. If he is indeed the same Brrl appearing over and over, this would mean he is pretty much immortal.

I agree, in my opinion, the quest that was "making" Freezie, was in fact more of a summoning ritual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Wintersday Helper

BTW, you messed up titling this section.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Longhair Yeti

Strangely enough, Longhair Yetis are also alongside the Protectors of Wintersday. The exact reason for their aid in unknown but it could mean that some Yetis follow Dwayna and actually paticipate in Wintersday – making them the first non-magical, non-human race to take part in it.

May I ask where you get this info from? I don't recall this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Discussion

Like the Mad King thread, this is only a thread with discussion. I want to ask the following:

- What do you think influences the outcome of Wintersday?

- Are Dwayna and Grenth constantly active during Wintersday?

1) I think it's the favor of a god. If Dwayna have more favor (i.e., people like the presents), Dwayna wins. If Grenth has more favor, or if the favor is neutral (i.e., people are not happy with Dwayna's job and no longer care for warmth), Grenth wins.

In a way, it is linked to the cheer idea you said.

-Good question, I highly doubt they actually fight each other, although possible. I think that they view wintersday the same way romans viewed gladiator fights. And the same way Balthazar view the arenas. It's entertainment to them, and to reason it they have it once a year with the whole winter/spring deal.

Going back to influence, I believe that, whenever the whole wintersday event started, Grenth and Dwayna made a bet with each other for how to decide when to start spring and stop winter. And the favor - whichever side "wins" - decides which of the two gods win, and the loser has to give up his/her season.

Free Runner · Dec 15, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

BTW, you messed up titling this section.

Yeah thanks to it being caught in the Mod Approval section i couldnt take a look through my post and correct things

Fixed now though.

Quote:

May I ask where you get this info from? I don't recall this.

Longhair Yetis appear alongside the Brrrls and Ursula The White in one of the quests (i think its "How the Grentchies Stole Wintersday"). Its unclear if they actually support wintersday (the quest gives the group the name "Protectors of Wintersday") or if they have been enslaved. When i look at the fact they are on Dwaynas side i dont think its enslavement so they must be there on their own free will.

Quote:

-Good question, I highly doubt they actually fight each other, although possible. I think that they view wintersday the same way romans viewed gladiator fights. And the same way Balthazar view the arenas. It's entertainment to them, and to reason it they have it once a year with the whole winter/spring deal.

The reason i brought up them being active is because in one of the quests (Straight to the Heart) Grentchus Magnus mentions that you must attack the center of the lair quickly before Dwayna finds out. This got me thinking - are Grenth and Dwayna actually watching all this?

Quote:

Going back to influence, I believe that, whenever the whole wintersday event started, Grenth and Dwayna made a bet with each other for how to decide when to start spring and stop winter. And the favor - whichever side "wins" - decides which of the two gods win, and the loser has to give up his/her season.

I do like that idea of that. It also seems very Grenth like - make a bet and then trick your way around it.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 15, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Thank you for clearifying the yeti thing - definably don't recall that but I'll keep an eye out this wintersday.

Also, some more light might be shed on the yeti in EN's wintersday - as Jotun seem to be similar to Yeti (in The Big Unfriendly Jotun quest, the Chieftan Jotun uses a Yeti model - might mean a connection).

Free Runner · Dec 15, 2008, 11:48 PM // 23:48

I'm actually hoping the quests will spread Wintersday to the Norn. By spread i mean involve them and confirm if the Norn actually celebrate Wintersday.

They may follow the Animal Spirits rather than the gods but for some reason i can see the Norn getting involved due to miscommunication - Saying that two gods are going to have a battle could throw the Norn into it (for all the wrong reasons). They also tend to like drinking so i could see a few Festive Norn getting in on Lt. Thackeray's fun.

As for the Yeti - i'm still wondering on that one. They have some level of intelligence (enough to understand honor, courage and Tengu killing) but i never saw them as actually following a god. The Longhair Yetis are monks though - perhaps the ones who are included as Protectors of Wintersday were special cases (perhaps Yetis that have been with Dwaynas side since birth).

Konig Des Todes · Dec 20, 2008, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Via Eye of the North Quests, we can conclude a few things.

First, the Norn do not celebrate Wintersday on their own - given by several NPC dialogues - but they are willing to celebrate, for various different reasons. Whether it is food, drinks, laughs, or craftsmanship.

Food:

Drinks:

Laughs:

Craftsmanship:

Snowball Fights also seem to be an enjoyment of Norn as well:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jora

I once killed 20 wolves with 18 snowballs. Who's next?

The Norn usually do not celebrate wintersday because, for them, winter never ends:

We can also tell that while the Charr do not celebrate wintersday - let alone like it - they do consider winter the Season of Death - like many human Grenth followers:

From when you take him into the snowball fight.

Nothing specific on Yeti though. Unless there is something hidden.

Kemal X · Dec 20, 2008, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I found this rather interesting in the new quests.. Seems like the norn and human races both share place for their dead or something, as that one norn shaman was able to get Sarah from the Underworld. I really didn't know how to explain this idea well, so I just bunched it in.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 21, 2008, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Got to thinking about Freezie, and I'm going to have to take back my original thought on the "simply summoned" in the quest.

Note that the quests technically only happen once in Lore - they are repeated via game mechanics *and to allow newer players, and older players, to (re)do them*. The quests are not mutually exclusive, in fact go hand in hand together.

Quest-wise timeline:

1072: Vehemus gets a random adventurer to make get ingredients to make a new grentch. Said grentch goes to destroy presents in the Ascalon Settlement.

Meanwhile, Joy gets a random adventurer help Scrappy Jhim make a snowman - which turns out to be stronger than any other snowman. Said snowman, Freezie, goes to defend Nebo Village from the Grentchies, defeating Grentchus Magnus in the process.

1075: Elonian children hear of Freezie and want to make a better snowman, said attempts are destroyed by Humbugs. Reindeer are stolen by Grenth followers, and while the Dwayna followers are retrieving the reindeer, said Grenth followers steal and "treak" presents. Dwayna followers find out and recover some of the presents, and bring out the Wintersday Moa to bring back cheer.

Meanwhile, the real presents are taken to the Underworld and the Grentchies successfully defend against the first wave of snowmen sent to retrieve them - ending with Freezie - but the second attempt to retrieve the presents succeeded.

1078: With the discovery of the Secret Lair of the Snowmen, Grenth sends grentchies to attack there. (The outcome of the assault depends on which side you choose, but Strength of Snow would occur first, with the Straight to the Heart quest combining with Strength of Snow at the final wave *when Grenchus Magnus shows*).

1079: Wintersday with the Ebon Vanguard spreads to the Norn, and the attempted assault by the Charr fails. No known Grenth vs Dwayna events (at this moment at least).

So, Freezie became the leader of the snowmen sometime between 1072 and 1078 for sure - seemingly at least one of those in charge in 1075.

This reminds me of the Archangel Metatron (no not Megatron >.>), who is the youngest and strongest Archangle in Christian mythos. He also quickly became the leader of the archangels in some viewpoints.

Free Runner · Dec 23, 2008, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Actually my reason for believing he existed prior to that quest is due to his dialogue in which he makes note he is the greatest snowman and aswell as knowing his name straight away, he gos on to ensure the child that he cannot be destroyed because he will return again. That seems to be a lot of information to know for something that had just been created.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemal X

I found this rather interesting in the new quests.. Seems like the norn and human races both share place for their dead or something, as that one norn shaman was able to get Sarah from the Underworld. I really didn't know how to explain this idea well, so I just bunched it in.

It would appear that through the Raven spirit he is able to open up a door and pull certain spirits through it. I find it rather interesting that the area where he does the ritual appears to be a common place for supernatural activity. Its probably a weak area in Tyria.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 23, 2008, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

It would appear that through the Raven spirit he is able to open up a door and pull certain spirits through it. I find it rather interesting that the area where he does the ritual appears to be a common place for supernatural activity. Its probably a weak area in Tyria.

Too bad you're no longer in the lore guild with your second account or you could have joined in our conversation about that spot.

-Undead gather there, and summon a boss (who is also titled "The Chained" which suggests that the Undead have enough intelligence to bind a stronger undead)
-A vengeful Ghost, Tanto, heads there.
-The Facets of the Gods gather there for a meeting.
-It is a weak spot that seems to be closer to the Rift, specifically the Underworld.

Edit: Me thinks this spot will be important in GW2. And I wonder if we can look at the line from the Revelations quest and figure something out with the new information on the spot - assuming the quote deals with the spot as well as somewhere else.