Curse

Roupe · Nov 05, 2008, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Shiro not killing the heroes in Vizuna square, thus the strange and unknown Emissaries wouldn't need to appear at all. Those Emissaries didn't lock shiro up sufficiently either.

Heroes picking up Staff of Orr & body of Rurik, rather than leaving it in the volcano. They fought hard to get that Staff.

Why is that important people die and left as dead in Tyria, when the monks have resurrect/rebirth etc?

Konig Des Todes · Nov 05, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roupe

Shiro not killing the heroes in Vizuna square, thus the strange and unknown Emissaries wouldn't need to appear at all. Those Emissaries didn't lock shiro up sufficiently either.

Er, Enovys, not Emissaries, one of them is called Emissary, but they are Envoys.

Quote:

Why is that important people die and left as dead in Tyria, when the monks have resurrect/rebirth etc?

The act of resurrection in the world of Tyria in terms of Lore is... questionable. It's hard to figure out where to stop at game mechanics and start with lore in some things, like resurrection and who really goes through the storyline.

Roupe · Nov 05, 2008, 09:19 AM // 09:19

Quote:

Er, Enovys, not Emissaries, one of them is called Emissary, but they are Envoys.

err ,ok my misstake

Quote:

The act of resurrection in the world of Tyria in terms of Lore is... questionable. It's hard to figure out where to stop at game mechanics and start with lore in some things, like resurrection and who really goes through the storyline.

As it is in many games, where people die over and over in. I know I,m being a bit silly in my desire for characters being resurrected in story.

Heroes and henchmen talk about resurrections too

"Remember all those times we were dying and I was the only one left standing but I used my signet on Alesia instead of you only to have her die while attempting to restore Lina's life? Yeah, good times. Good times."
Reyna, Archer Henchman, Droknar's Forge (explorable):

There is an anime, BTW where the heroes are having a fit because the clergy refused to resurrect a ally of theirs "because he was to old". I enjoyed that anime just for that ^^

draxynnic · Nov 06, 2008, 02:25 AM // 02:25

I think in the cases of Rurik and Saidra, the explanation is that the body had to be abandoned while escaping from enemy forces (the Stone Summit and Mursaat respectively). When Rurik appeared again, his body may have been too decomposed for a resurrection spell to work.

In Togo's case, it could be explained as the ritual Shiro used to return himself to life made Togo unressurectable.

I don't recall any actual scripted deaths of allies in Nightfall. EOTN has Gadd, which is a little harder to explain, since he died in a manner the PCs would consider normal (big magical explosion...) and the body was available. Unless the explosion was such that he didn't need to be cremated to make those ashes that were poured into the waterfall...

Konig Des Todes · Nov 06, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I don't recall any actual scripted deaths of allies in Nightfall.

There is one, Morgahn's priest friend friend (forgot her name), along with the nameless priests that Varesh slaughters right before Morgahn joins us.

The death of Morgahn's priest friend is also unexplained as why they didn't resurrect her, as Morgahn was right there (and I for one would think he would have ordered one of his men to resurrect her, or resurrect her himself via Signet of Return).

Karuro · Nov 06, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

My take on resurrection in a lore sense was that there's a time-limit to resurrection.

Also the thought of "souls attachment to their life" crossed my mind a few times.

Then there's also cases that it's an unnatural thing to do. In wars, fine. But everything outside of it is blasphemy to Tyrians :P
Dragging ol' Shirou into this thread:

The priest is called Kehanni by the way.

Gmr Leon · Nov 07, 2008, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karuro

The priest is called Kehanni by the way.

That just reminded me of a change I would make...Let Norgu be a more serious character and die rather than Kehanni. One: Kehanni is attractive and a polite lady. Two: She helps guide us in Vabbi. Three: Norgu comes out of practically nowhere to join us.

Goren does too, but there's not a really good character that could take his place.

Konig Des Todes · Nov 07, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

That just reminded me of a change I would make...Let Norgu be a more serious character and die rather than Kehanni. One: Kehanni is attractive and a polite lady. Two: She helps guide us in Vabbi. Three: Norgu comes out of practically nowhere to join us.

Goren does too, but there's not a really good character that could take his place.

While I agree that Kehanni should have lived (although her death allowed us to get Morgahn's help

) I fear for your sanity now that you said Kehanni is attractive. I fear for the sanity of all those who find pixels or drawings attractive. And Goren doesn't really come out of no where if you do Margrid's side instead of Jurah's. Norgu still comes out of no where to say "hey they need your help, but save me first!" Goren is "der hey pretty lady, I'll help you get to the princes." Storyline wise, I prefer Goren over Norgu. hero usefulness, I prefer any of the 24 others.

draxynnic · Nov 07, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

There is one, Morgahn's priest friend friend (forgot her name), along with the nameless priests that Varesh slaughters right before Morgahn joins us.

The death of Morgahn's priest friend is also unexplained as why they didn't resurrect her, as Morgahn was right there (and I for one would think he would have ordered one of his men to resurrect her, or resurrect her himself via Signet of Return).

Ah, yes. I had the nagging feeling I'd forgotten something - at least that one happens when the PCs aren't nearby. Maybe Morgahn and co didn't have resurrection skills loaded (how many Kournans do?) or maybe the Margonites did something to Kehanni to make her unresurrectable?

And for the record, I've run 3-mesmer hero/hench groups.

Shasgaliel · Nov 07, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I would like to see what would have happened if the Vizier failed to destroy Orr and just got consumed by scepters magic. Would the charr rule everything except Kryta or would Orr survive their invasion? Would the flameseeker prophecies be fulfilled in this case? I guess players would be running after white mantle and never got ascended nor met glint, but who knows..

Konig Des Todes · Nov 07, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

While that would be interesting to see, I must point out - being a lore freak - the Vizier didn't use the scepter until 2 years after the Cataclysm. The Cataclysm was caused by the Forbidden Scroll. The Flameseeker Prophecies would probably not happen, as we wouldn't head to the Crystal Desert - at least not under the same reasoning.

Free Runner · Nov 07, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

No doubt that if Khillbron never used the forbidden scroll, Orr would have been overtaken by the Charr, due to losing so much to the Guild Wars. Knowing how the Charr despise Ascalon, most of the forces that went to Orr would probably return and take over Ascalon. The Heroes would be killed in Ascalon, never making it to the Shiverpeaks.

The White Mantle would probably be unaffected until the Charr had full control of the east, at which point their confidence may of lead them to Kryta (which would probably fare better than Ascalon and Orr due to the White Mantle and Mursaat). Also the Stone Summit would crush the Deldrimor Dwarves.

Due to all that, Cantha would not get the aid of the Tyrians, leading to Shiros plague perhaps becoming successful. The Sunspears in turn would never get aid from Tyria or Cantha, possibly leading to their ultimate demise and the arrival of Nightfall. Then a year later, The Great Destroyer would arrive, but due to the lack of Heroes or Deldrimor Dwarves, it would survive for its purpose. Primordus would be awakened, which would probably lead to the other Ancient Dragons waking up. So the world would have Abaddon, his Demons and the Ancient Dragons. That would of course mean the end of the world.

Funny how one thing could affect the fate of the world

Karuro · Nov 08, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

You'd have to wonder what would happen if Nightfall did succeed then.
Ok, Tyria has fallen into night. You have an army of demons who cannot reproduce and all of humanity living in fear. What to do? Enslave them? Play poker with Joko? Decapitating statues of the God's wont help much, since the Five are on long-term vacation. Though Balthazar pays a little visit somewhere in the upcoming 250 years.

Then Primordus wakes up with his buddies for global destruction. Would Abaddon become a "savior"? Well, it'd be the lesser of two evils in that case. Abaddon doesn't exactly want to destroy the world. Just break free out of Torment and get payback on what the Five did to him. Heck, maybe the people would start thinking "Hey, Abaddon's a pretty cool guy. Eh kills dragons and doesn't afraid of anything". So Abaddon becomes the one true God for modern day Tyria, sitting on a throne of dragon corpses or what the like. Swarmed with priestesses of Lyssa and eating yummy grapes, slowly turning Tyria into his personal army to prepare for the "Final Battle" against the Five, who are probably floating in The Mists or dwelling in another world they created.

Oh yea. Menzies and Dhuum. Eh, Menzies just wants power and Dhuum loves torture. They'll eventually find another hobby.

Man, this would make a great fanfic :P

[/end creative outburst]

Gmr Leon · Nov 08, 2008, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazel The Assassin

I fear for your sanity now that you said Kehanni is attractive. I fear for the sanity of all those who find pixels or drawings attractive.

There's a video, somewhere, to explain how flawed this perception is. Of course, it's a matter of opinion, and it would probably be more appropriate for a PM, but..

Anyway, on the topic at hand..In short, the Cataclysm was actually for the betterment of mankind.

Free Runner · Nov 09, 2008, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karuro

Oh yea. Menzies and Dhuum. Eh, Menzies just wants power and Dhuum loves torture. They'll eventually find another hobby.

Yeah i forgot Menzies and Dhuum in my consequence post. No doubt they would find something to keep them occupied in all the killing, soul devouring and destruction. Perhaps they would actually step out of the shadows for once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

There's a video, somewhere, to explain how flawed this perception is. Of course, it's a matter of opinion, and it would probably be more appropriate for a PM, but..

We could just say that Kehanni is a much more interesting character than Norgu. Kehanni is a priestess who is sometimes granted visions by Lyssa, and Norgu is a actor who not only takes the credit for stopping Nightfall, but was probably stuffing his face when Kehanni died.

Neo Atomisk · Dec 03, 2008, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Proph: use backfire, dazed, or an interrupt the chart searing casters.

Fax: make the luxons and kurzicks relevant to shiro via epic battle.

NF: not save chahbek island so istan gets pwned by corsairs.

Malchior · Apr 18, 2009, 07:10 AM // 07:10

Ok, well firstly I understand the Kormir hate and all, but it's better to have her as a god than someone like Goren or something. "GRRR! SMASH!". I don't think she should have been the goddess of truth though, because she always says "As a Sunspear, you never fight alone!" and then she goes and places ONE sunspear at each rez shrine. YEAH WELL DONE KORMIR HUURRRR.

As for the upcoming Emperor in GW2... The Kurzicks and Luxons are all appart of Cantha, they're just being stupid by waging war on one another and generally not helping anything. You would think that the army of afflicted might have been enough to make them say "Ok, temp truce while we save THE WHOLE STUPID CONTINENT". But noooooo, we had to go marching through their territories MAKING them be reasonable. All the new emperor did was take back what was his. They were stuck in a never ending war for little to no reason, kudos to the new emperor.

Now then, my change...

I'd find some kind of time travel technology, and take all my 10 characters (1 of each prof) back to about a week before the searing. Then I'd wait... and STEAL THE CAULDRON! No Searing, Ascalon is saved, Orr is saved, and Kryta would do fine all the same.

After that, I would tell rurik to gather up all his men north of the wall for some damn training. Level 3 Ascalon Guards, level 5 Academy Monk, are you kidding me? The monks carry crappy swords and shields too. I highly doubt they're caster weapons, too. They're probably just 3-4 damage tribal blades and r5 strength shields with -2 damage while in a stance. Also, They have Flaming Scepter Mages, why don't they use them? Even though they only know flare, they're level 7, which would make them more powerful than most of the Ascalon Army judging on damage alone. And as for Ascalonian rangers, their only skill is Dual Shot. Well done! (Not)

So, my monk would go to serenity temple in pre (Perma pre now that we have the cauldron, srsly) and he would teach the monks there what a staff is. My ranger would teach all the Ascalon army rangers a few things like preparations and a healing/defencive skill or two, like throw dirt (How hard could that be to learn?). My warrior would teach the Ascalon Guards shield bash and give them healing signet or something. Also my elementalist would show them mages a thing or two about fire and then THEY can show the CHARR a thing or two about fire. Also They should include Mesmers and Necromancers in their army, even if it's only a little bit. A MM could work wonders with the amount of corpses they create daily.

After that I would power level them all to at least level 10, that way the king could be just as strong on the defence with half as many men and stfu, and rurik could then push further and further north now that his men are stronger than the charr and can wtfpwn them out of new Ascalon (Which would be a merge of Ascalon and everything above it).

Then Ascalon would be the strongest Kingdom on Tyria and would build another great northern wall, but this time all around their lands to keep stupid people out and stuff. I could then go and explore Orr because it never got blown up, and my characters would go save the rest of the world before bad crap happens because they have knowledge of future events and stuff.

THE END.

(Note; It is just one change. I only changed that my characters went back in time.)

Konig Des Todes · Apr 18, 2009, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

I could then go and explore Orr because it never got blown up

How do you know?

Khilbron was evil, he would have blown it up anyways. x)

I don't think I ever posted in this thread about what I would change... yet I visit it whenever there's a new post... huh.

Malchior · Apr 18, 2009, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

How do you know?

Khilbron was evil, he would have blown it up anyways. x)

I don't think I ever posted in this thread about what I would change... yet I visit it whenever there's a new post... huh.

NOOOO!! That evil bastard!

But really, the only reason they turned to such magic was before they were seeking a weapon to stop the charr which were heading to Orr after the wall was breached. The wall never got breached, thus there were no charr headed for Orr, aaaaaand that means they didn't search for a powerful magic to defend their home with. I just hope he wouldn't find some other excuse to go get that scroll thing. (WAS he evil? I don't know much on the lore of him)

What would you change?

Free Runner · Apr 18, 2009, 10:44 AM // 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

I could then go and explore Orr because it never got blown up

Though you would face the troubling fact that Orr is still at war with Ascalon due to the lack of a Searing ending the Guild Wars