Curse

Obrien Xp · May 08, 2009, 08:43 PM // 20:43

The Druids of Maguuma are told to be beings who gave up their physical existence to be more in-tune with Melandru and nature.

The Sylvari are plant-people

Melandru is a goddess. Her avatar is a tree person.

I believe that the Sylvari are the druids being given new more natural (literally) bodies by Melandru. They were powerful and a bit delusional when I saw them in Maguuma so I assume their all "being new to the world thing" is all about them having to re-understand life outside of the jungle and the trees.

Just my thoughts.

Coolpb · May 08, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Me thinks we'll know in GW2. But I do like this theory!

Konig Des Todes · May 08, 2009, 10:27 PM // 22:27

While possible, I suppose, I do not believe this to be likely. As someone who has been looking into spirits - which are what the Druid's currently are - it would not be possible to become something that they are not.

Currently, the only way to go from spirit to flesh and blood with their own free will would be through the help of a god, this you have covered via Melandru. However, the only case we know of this is Shiro, in which he took on the form he had from when he was living.

If this is the case for all, then the Druid's would look like Oakhearts. Not Sylvari.

So, while possible, of our known information, it won't be the case.

It is much more likely that the Sylvari are formed from magically taking the aspects of those buried around the tree for the form, shape, and morals of the Sylvari. Especially as they are humanoid (the seed was buried near Ronan's wife and child, Ronan and the other humans at the tree in EN were probably buried on that island too) and share the morals of Ventari.

Kerwyn Nasilan · May 08, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

My Theory, ANet needed a way to attract all the elf lovers to the game...

And btw I RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING HATE ELVES

Konig Des Todes · May 09, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

The Sylvari are, as we currently know of, not elves or anything like elves.

They remind me more of forest nymphs, which are closer to fairies and are, in some cases in fantasy and mythology, living plants - and that fits much more closer than elves.

Besides, where are the pointy ears? x) just kidding. But it could be that the Sylvari have some Norse Mythology Light Elves in them, and maybe the nightmares come from the GW-version of the Norse Mythology Dark Elves. o_O (One could be surprised how many Tolkien creatures/objects, and in effect common day fantasy, are based off of Norse Mythology... rings of power, elves, dwarves... list goes on).

Besides that, it seems that the Norn and Dwarves *and as such, the Shiverpeaks* are the "Norse reference holders" within GW.

I still find it much more likely that they are based off of Nymphs, which originate from Greek Mythology.

Obrien Xp · May 09, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I am completely with you on the nymphs though aren't you thinking dryads, as nymphs were usually referred to as stream dwellers. then again they are all related.

personally regarding the Druids being oakhearts, in prof Anet was new and didn't even have an idea about Sylvari, besides a ghost can take on any form. I think the druids were just using recycled skins.

Konig Des Todes · May 09, 2009, 08:45 PM // 20:45

Dryads would be the forest version, so yes. It's been a while since I looked at Nymphs and Dryads so I got confused.

And yes, a ghost can take on any form. The Wardens, basically the Canthan version of the Druids, would probably be what the Druids would look like if they just merged with the forest - not shedding their physical body. However, the body would either take on the version of their spirit (which would most likely stay as an Oakheart shape), or they would return to their full human form. So yes, possible, but I still say unlikely.

Especially seeing how the Sylvari were not born until that specific tree was made. If it was not for that tree, the Sylvari would not have been born and thus this debate would not occur. If your theory were correct, it wouldn't be focused on such a thing.

And through your theory, explain the Dream of Dreams and the nightmares within them.

Gmr Leon · May 09, 2009, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Currently, the only way to go from spirit to flesh and blood with their own free will would be through the help of a god, this you have covered via Melandru. However, the only case we know of this is Shiro, in which he took on the form he had from when he was living.

This isn't completely accurate. Shiro did not require the help of a God to return to his flesh and blood body; he needed existing knowledge of ancient rituals to figure out how to do so, as is shown throughout the Factions storyline as he goes to seemingly random locations to do research.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

And yes, a ghost can take on any form. The Wardens, basically the Canthan version of the Druids, would probably be what the Druids would look like if they just merged with the forest - not shedding their physical body. However, the body would either take on the version of their spirit (which would most likely stay as an Oakheart shape), or they would return to their full human form. So yes, possible, but I still say unlikely.

The Druids were a completely different case than the Wardens, though. The Druids, if the Scriptures of Melandru are an indication of their origin, were altered physically and spiritually by Melandru. If they had willingly joined the Maguuma, their spirits and their bodies would likely resemble that of an ordinary human. I think, given a few obvious exceptions in the case of demons, that the spirit and body remain the same in appearance unless altered by another being. Keep in mind, after all, that the Titans are an example of human spirits tortured and basically refined to become the physical manifestation we face in-game.

Obrien Xp · May 09, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

natural corruption happens all the time, probably due to the dragon.

the duids were very bonded in their rituals, the hive mind would be a continuation of that.

from guildwiki quest: Wisdom of the Druids

Ancient Druid Spirit: "We are nothing. We are one."
Spirit of the Druids: "All that exists is all that must be."
Ancient Druid Spirit: "To be is a disguise. To act is an illusion."
Spirit of the Druids: "All that exists is all that must be."
Ancient Druid Spirit: "We are renewed by these waters. We are unchanged by these waters."
Spirit of the Druids: "All that exists is all that must be."
Ancient Druid Spirit: "Time moves neither forward nor back. Time is the lens of perception."
Spirit of the Druids: "All that exists is all that must be."
Ancient Druid Spirit: "The spirit beholds truths that the eye cannot see."
Spirit of the Druids: "All that exists is all that must be."

"It is not often that we allow mortals to witness our rituals, but we see in you the seeds of the divine. To be divine is to realize that we are all one. That the self is an illusion. Through this do you understand your own immortality. Through this you are freed from the illusions of the flesh.

Konig Des Todes · May 10, 2009, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

This isn't completely accurate. Shiro did not require the help of a God to return to his flesh and blood body; he needed existing knowledge of ancient rituals to figure out how to do so, as is shown throughout the Factions storyline as he goes to seemingly random locations to do research.

True, I forgot that he did research, but that doesn't stop him from having Abaddon's aid, say for source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

The Druids were a completely different case than the Wardens, though. The Druids, if the Scriptures of Melandru are an indication of their origin, were altered physically and spiritually by Melandru. If they had willingly joined the Maguuma, their spirits and their bodies would likely resemble that of an ordinary human. I think, given a few obvious exceptions in the case of demons, that the spirit and body remain the same in appearance unless altered by another being. Keep in mind, after all, that the Titans are an example of human spirits tortured and basically refined to become the physical manifestation we face in-game.

The Scriptures only state a physical change. Also, the scriptures occur in B.E., while there are mentions of the druids in A.E., within a century even of 1072 A.E. So it is hard to say if Ewan's tribe is just the start of Oakhearts (and/or other plant creatures) or are the Druid's themselves and the Druids were not human for the longest time.

If the former, then it would prove what you said wrong, as the spirits of druids would be changed. If the later, then would that not discredit the OP's theory, and supporting what I said - that is, that they would take the same of an Oakheart unless forced into a more humanoid shape by Melandru (which sounds rather... illogical? At least to me. No real point in making a humanoid shape from what was once human to something else).

I feel like I typed too much I forgot where I was going...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

natural corruption happens all the time, probably due to the dragon.

There is no mention of a Dragon near the Maguuma as of now. So I don't think we should say that there will be one.

As for the bonded in rituals to hive mind. I personally say that is a stretch, as I see the bolded quotes more as "we are all a part of nature" and "we all come from and go to the same place in the end" - the latter talking about coming from and going to the Mists.

That is my interpretation at least.

Gmr Leon · May 10, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The Scriptures only state a physical change.

Which I realize. I was attempting to run my explanation along what you were saying about spirits and their taking the form of Oakhearts if they were to physically manifest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

If the former, then it would prove what you said wrong, as the spirits of druids would be changed. If the later, then would that not discredit the OP's theory, and supporting what I said - that is, that they would take the same of an Oakheart unless forced into a more humanoid shape by Melandru (which sounds rather... illogical? At least to me. No real point in making a humanoid shape from what was once human to something else).

I feel like I typed too much I forgot where I was going...

Er..I think I kind of see where you're going with this, but at the same time..I'm not completely sure of what you're saying. When you say former and latter, I'm guessing you're referring to the bit above this quoted section? Even then, the way you've written the above..It's still a tad confusing.

Konig Des Todes · May 10, 2009, 04:59 AM // 04:59

If Ewan's tribe is just the start of Oakhearts (and/or other plant creatures) then it would prove what you said wrong, as the spirits of druids would be changed into a tree-like form.

If the Druid's were humans before becoming what we see now, like is suspected (with the druids secluding themselves from society - possibly human society), then wouldn't what you said before disprove what the OP said and simply agree with - at least to a degree - of what I said?

That is, that the Druids would, if returned to flesh and blood, take the form of Oakhearts? Unless an unknown force - such as Melandru - is forcing them to become the Sylvari.

I hope that is less confusing.

Gmr Leon · May 10, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Eh..Essentially. However, I still think that there had to be something that altered their spirit for it to appear in such a manner. Just as if the Wardens were men prior to joining with Urgoz, Urgoz's influence affected their spirit and their bodies. Hence why they went mad once Urgoz was corrupted by the Jade Wind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

There is no mention of a Dragon near the Maguuma as of now. So I don't think we should say that there will be one.

There doesn't need to be one. The Sylvari are more or less synchronized with nature, and as such the nightmares are probably a byproduct of the corruption or destruction of nature caused by the Ancient Dragons. As they do seem to have a "supernatural connection to plants."

Obrien Xp · May 10, 2009, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Not to discredit but:
The sylvari concept didn't exist until Utopia/eotn, and the Druids were a minor side plot that had 0 effect on the story, so anet didn't give them any neat plant people skin, they just recycled. That's my interpretation anyways.

To add something to the discussion:

Here's a new theory. What if the Druids and Melandru were the ones that created the seed instead of the druids actually being the sylvari.

Gmr Leon · May 10, 2009, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Not to discredit but:
The sylvari concept didn't exist until Utopia/eotn, and the Druids were a minor side plot that had 0 effect on the story, so anet didn't give them any neat plant people skin, they just recycled. That's my interpretation anyways.

Zero effect on the story? Without their existence, there would be no structures in the Maguuma Jungle, and no Henge of Denravi for the Shining Blade to find refuge in. They have a larger, subtle role in the story, much like the Wardens and Mage Lords. As one could just as easily say those two groups had zero effect on the story as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Here's a new theory. What if the Druids and Melandru were the ones that created the seed instead of the druids actually being the sylvari.

..In all likelihood, if they had to come into being somehow, the likeliest option would be for them to be created by Melandru. However, then one must ask why they didn't come into existence earlier or some such.

Obrien Xp · May 10, 2009, 07:15 PM // 19:15

would that new theory not then indirectly involve melandru creating them?

Gmr Leon · May 10, 2009, 08:08 PM // 20:08

More like directly. Although I'm still not sure if the Sylvari were created by the Gods (in this case Melandru), if they were created by a random Mage Lord, or how they might have come into being in those seeds. There's really not enough evidence to say how their seeds came into being.

Free Runner · May 10, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

This was discussed awhile ago in a thread here - i think it was the one of the ones on Wardens.

I'm not sure why people feel the Sylvari MUST be an existing race born anew. Also at the time of the Sylvaris pre-birth (if thats how i should put it - their seed being planted and becoming the tree) the Druids should still be in the jungle safe and sound - why would they suddenly lose their current existance (in or around 1079 AE - the seed was already growing at least a year before then) and become part of a new entity?

The only way i could see a possible connection is with the origin of the seeds - them perhaps being placed their by the Druids or influenced by the Druids in some way. But even thats a stretch.

Obrien Xp · May 15, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I'm not sure why people feel the Sylvari MUST be an existing race born anew.
The only way i could see a possible connection is with the origin of the seeds - them perhaps being placed their by the Druids or influenced by the Druids in some way. But even thats a stretch.

Don't think that the HAVE TO I just think its possible/likely, if they have no connection to anything than I don't care, we just like speculating to pass the time and help the lore writers at ANET get ideas. (Jeff Grubb said so in interview 3 years of gw).

Free Runner · May 15, 2009, 11:28 AM // 11:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Don't think that the HAVE TO I just think its possible/likely

I wasnt reffering to you specifically but pretty much every Sylvari discussion in general. For some mysterious reason every time i see a discussion come up on the Sylvari they are always ether a race reborn, spirits given a humanoid form or a reincarnation of the druids. I never see a theory that involves them being just a new race that has yet to understand its powers and hidden nature.