Curse

Konig Des Todes · Sep 10, 2008, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Because people over at the GWO lore forum is having a fun time trying to figure this out, I thought I'd bring this over here for more thoughts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelyoniy

Any ideas on who was the stranger that forced Zinn to build R.O.X. N.O.X. and P.O.X.? There seems to be no lead and I really can't think of any suspect with viable motives.

There is little support for who the mysterious stranger is. The only thing we know about him is that s/he wanted the human leaders (of Kryta, Vabbi, and the Dragon Empire) dead, and that s/he supplied a power crystal for R.O.X.'s creation.

I won't bring over any speculations from GWO so that we have some more original thoughts and no "yes I agree with xxxx, although I have no way to support it."

Let the thinking begin!

Shayne Hawke · Sep 11, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I thought the book explained who asked for the specific robots to be built?

Or was that just why they were built and who they were sent to?

If my original idea was wrong, then I'd say the motives of that person would be something along the lines of the fortune teller from Cantha that pushed Shiro over the edge. Can't say who would be like that though.

silavor · Sep 11, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

An angry Mursaat, perhaps?

Oro Mana · Sep 11, 2008, 03:03 AM // 03:03

spider senses tingling...
no... it can't be!

NEW ANTAGONIST?!?!

vandevere · Sep 11, 2008, 03:21 AM // 03:21

If it's a new antagonist, wouldn't that mean...maybe...possibly...more new material..?

Enko · Sep 11, 2008, 04:04 AM // 04:04

could the custom power crystals be shards of the bloodstone? P.O.X. has a skill called Bloodstone Slash and using the bloodstone as a power source would certainly cause some weird affects. Perhaps this could lead to additional content concerning the last two bloodstone locations?

Nick Of Troy · Sep 11, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Who is the Mysterious Stranger who wants the Nobles of Tyria dead? Perhaps the Champion of the Taris Dueling Ring

Honestly though, I'm betting on a new villain. Perhaps a member of the White Mantle intent on destroying prominent religious figures and establishing the Unseen Ones as Tyria's dominant religion?

draxynnic · Sep 11, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

The Mursaat/White Mantle connection was my thought as well. First, they're the ones that are in the right area to find Zinn in the first place. Second, it was the first one built that went after Salma. Third, the Mursaat have their own means of building constructs.

The attempts on Kisu and the princes of Vabbi could be explained as covering their tracks by hiding who their primary target was, or as an attempt to stop Elona and Cantha from intervening in the attempted coup by stirring up trouble there as well.

That said, who else would benefit from causing this chaos? Lots of people. Palawa, possibly, although my theory is that his plan is to keep lying low and not give the current heroes an excuse to go after him until they all die off. Some minion of Menzies or Dhuum, or of one of the dragons... possibly even a Charr looking to make sure the other nations don't get around to sending aid to Ascalon.

Free Runner · Sep 11, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

My first thought was Lazarus. All 3 attacks would cause dismay to the humans of Tyria rather than other races. And he just so happens to have it in for humans. He also made that little speech about making hell for generations of humans to come. Killing off an Emperor, a Queen and three Princes would certainly achieve that goal.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 11, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Now we are getting somewhere over here (sometimes I question the intelligence of most people on guru). I gotta know, Draxynnic, did you look over at GWO? You just said every thought over there that was not disproven, except for the unlikely stone summit (and one rather weird theory that I don't even want to mention, as there is little support for it).

Now that there are thoughts over here, I'll say what the current thoughts are over at GWO:

Most Likely:
1. Lazarus and/or other Mursaat that still live
2. Dhuum/Menzies' follower
3. A exiled Charr Shaman
4. New Antagonist

Not-so-likely but still possible:
1. Palawa Joko
2. one of the few Stone Summit (as they are mostly destroyed by the time after EN)

Not likely at all:
1. Ancient Dragon's followers (no knowledge of their existence in-game still)

I personally place my hopes on Dhuum/Menzies (We REALLY gotta tie off those loose ends), but it seems most likely that it is Lazarus.

The 8th · Sep 11, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Lazarus or some other remnant of the White Mantle/Muursat would be a likely suspect. It seems to me however that They would be less concerned with attacking political leaders outside of Kryta. For one thier contact with Canthans and Elonans has been severely limited at best. Secondly they're severely weakened at this point and currently (EotN) are pretty much locked in a war with other Krytan groups (mostly the Shining Blades) for control of the country. I just don't see them having the rescources or the desire to attack other countries untill they've regained control of thier own. I realize Lazarus hates humans, but it just seems to me he has a bit more on his plate at the moment and attacking leaders of foreign countries wouldn't really benefit him or the Muursat much at this point.

I'm thinking ANet (if they continue with this and don't just leave us hanging) is thinking to spring some all new threat on us soon. I hope it somehow ties back into Menzies and Dhuum because having those loose ends just dangling out is terribly annoying. >.<

Hell as far as we know it's just a particularly megalomaniacal Asura with some extra cash to throw around. They are extremely arrogant, know a lot about GOLEMs, and believe they should rule the world. Maybe this one decided his first step was taking out the humans?

draxynnic · Sep 12, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Azazel: Nope, but I'm not surprised. I basically listed everyone that I could think of that was still a going concern for villainry apart from the gangs (the Stone Summit appears to be kaput, and I didn't consider the gangs because one of them is being used, and I don't think the Am Fah would have given the golem to the Jade Brotherhood in the first place even as an attempt at framing them).

Actually, come to think on it, one possibility I missed is the pirates - if people are using the relative peace after EOTN to crack down on them, a pirate leader might decide that knocking out a few governments might give them freedom to act again. Don't really see that working out, though.

In the far left field, it could be a different nonhuman - a Centaur would find the disguise hard to pull off, but a Tengu might be able to - we know there are antagonistic Tengu in both Kryta and Cantha, so they'd potentially benefit directly from two of the hits.

The 8th: I addressed this in my earlier post. Largely, I see three reasons to hit the other leaders:

1) Because the heroes of the Tyria, Cantha and Elona have shown that they'll all work together against a common foe. If they just concentrated on the situation at home, then if it ever looked like they were going to win than the combined expeditionary forces of all three continents would likely come down on them hard (of course, Ascalon is a counter-example, but I think the justification there is that Adelburn is still too proud to accept foreign reinforcements however badly they may be needed). If enough chaos can be raised in the other continents, this might provide enough of a distraction to get away with it.

2) To create doubt as to who was responsible. If it was just Salma, people would quickly narrow it down to the obvious suspects. With the extra targets, that gets people wondering who has it in for all three continents.

3) Because they can. Since I'm pretty sure Zinn didn't actually get paid, all it cost them was the three power sources - the labour and other materials were essentially stolen from Zinn. It's not like they're dispatching an army to do it - while in theory they could have just added the golems to their conventional forces, they are essentially expendable assets.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 12, 2008, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

In the far left field, it could be a different nonhuman - a Centaur would find the disguise hard to pull off, but a Tengu might be able to - we know there are antagonistic Tengu in both Kryta and Cantha, so they'd potentially benefit directly from two of the hits.

I disagree with both Centaurs and Tengu being possible.

Centaur:
Pro attack:
1. They all hate/dislike humans, with rare exceptions. (Even the Veldrunner Pride, which is the kindest Centaur Pride, has people who hate humans).
Con attack:
1. No connection to Cantha, Kryta, or Vabbi.
2. They only attack humans in the Maguuma, Shiverpeaks, and the Crystal Desert.
3. And Kourna is the only area where Centaurs are close to humans. Which isn't even targeted.

Tengu:
Pro attack:
1. They hate nearby humans, especially in Cantha.
2. They attack anyone who trespass on their lands, which the humans in Kryta and Cantha are technically on.
Con attack:
1. They don't leave their land.
2. They have no reason to attack Vabbi.
3. The ones with the most hate (The Sensali) don't have access to Tyria as far as we know. And if they did, they wouldn't bother giving it to the Jade Brotherhood without ordering to kill them first.
4. The Queztal and Avricari have no reason to attack.
5. The Caromi have made no noticeable large-scale attack, only simple raids when humans go on their lands.

draxynnic · Sep 12, 2008, 04:41 AM // 04:41

I'd consider them possible but improbable, for the reasons you describe.

Regarding the Centaurs, I was thinking the Tyrian centaurs rather than the Kournan centaurs, which do apparently feel they've been pushed out of their own lands by the Krytans (sound familiar?) - the Vabbian connection could come from the Losaru range extending east to the northern borders of Vabbi. The points against this possibility is that they have little reason to want to attack Cantha, and that it seems unlikely that the various clans would be communicating to plan the attacks.

With the Tengu - I don't think we actually have any information on how the Tengu of Tyria react to humanity except that they attack on sight. We only see the Sensali as having a particular hatred of humanity in contrast to the Angchu, which were willing to negotiate (and the Sensali came to the table as well, if grudgingly - they just blamed humanity as a whole for the Minister of War's misdeeds). It seems at least possible that the Tyrian tengu hate humanity at least as much as the Sensali. The points against this are your #2, and the same issue with communication as with the Centaurs. (Regarding using the Jade Brotherhood as patsies - I could see that. They're not stupid, I'm sure they can see the benefit of going for the Emperor without wasting time clearing out a human gang that's almost certainly causing the humans of Cantha more harm than good. Although even with that, POX isn't shy about killing the Brotherhood that try to defend it...)

On the whole, I threw them in just to make the list complete - those listed in my first post are all MUCH better candidates.

Free Runner · Sep 12, 2008, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Actually i dont think Zinn mentions the stranger was disguised. He just says that a stranger asked him to build the Golems and since the stranger had the pieces needed he just dived into making them. Knowing how the Asura are i wouldnt be suprised if something like a Centaur or Tengu walked in and all the Asura cared about was what they were carrying. He doesnt give away who the stranger is because hes too busy trying to save....his reputation - he doesnt care who they are.

Most of the points Azazel said (No connection to Cantha and Elona for example) could also be said for the Mursaat also. We never hear of any Mursaat on ether continent.

I would say a a better point that puts the Tengu and Centaur out of the story is that this stranger had Golem parts AND he knew about the Asura. I dont think the Centaurs or Tengu are capable of acquiring Power pieces and finding the Asura.

One of the things that made me think of Lazarus was the description for taking out the power crystal of one of the Golems. It mentions a mysterious sound, like something attempting to get out. I wondered if it was Lazarus up to old tricks with surviving Mursaat (if there is any).

Anyway the entire questline was a nice homage to Moxens Master.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 12, 2008, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Most of the points Azazel said (No connection to Cantha and Elona for example) could also be said for the Mursaat also. We never hear of any Mursaat on ether continent.

I would say a a better point that puts the Tengu and Centaur out of the story is that this stranger had Golem parts AND he knew about the Asura. I dont think the Centaurs or Tengu are capable of acquiring Power pieces and finding the Asura.

The two biggest things that separate the Mursaat from the Tengu and Centaur in terms of possible suspects, would be, as you said, the Mursaat have better access to power crystals/bloodstones (whichever it is), although the Queztals might as well. But the more important thing, at least to me, is that the Tengu and Centaur hate humans because of the "they are in our lands" issue. Just like the Europeans chasing the Native Americans out of their lands, humans do the same to Centaus and Tengu, and that is the only hatred there really is in Tyria for them. While the Mursaat, Lazarus mainly, hate the humans (possibly Asura as well, or just the heroes) because of what happens to him during his little quest chain in Eye of the North. He has a more "personal" vengeance. Whether he wants revenge on the whole human race (which is done by assassinating the remaining human leaders) or he wants revenge on the heroes (which is done by making us "run around in circles" trying to stop the golems, hoping one would take us out, or tire us out for his next move - if there will be one - to do the job).

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Regarding the Centaurs, I was thinking the Tyrian centaurs rather than the Kournan centaurs, which do apparently feel they've been pushed out of their own lands by the Krytans (sound familiar?)

I did forget about that.

My bad.

Quote:

the Vabbian connection could come from the Losaru range extending east to the northern borders of Vabbi.

This may be from simple reskin, but I believe, due to location and looks, that the Losaru and the Veldrunner Prides were once the same, but got separated by the Desolation and Palawa Joko. Some (the Losaru) were forced north, and grew resentful, and therefore hostile, while the Veldrunners, who were able to stay south, did not until recent times where they get enslaved by Varesh.

Operative 14 · Sep 12, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Perhaps it was whoever Vael is spying for. We know they're interested in all three continents and the leaders thereof. To that end, Vael seems to relish situations that require our heros (us) to fight, and the tougher the better in that case.

(Now hows that for left field!)

Nightow · Sep 12, 2008, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Perhaps it was whoever Vael is spying for. We know they're interested in all three continents and the leaders thereof. To that end, Vael seems to relish situations that require our heros (us) to fight, and the tougher the better in that case.

(Now hows that for left field!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vael as a Collector

"You have earned my respect, friend, in more ways than one. While we may never be able to grow old and stitch quilts together, I will try to stick to jobs that do not put me on the other side of the battlefront as you."

lol, left field.

Free Runner · Sep 12, 2008, 08:57 PM // 20:57

I know Vael is a Jack of all Trades, who seems to know more about Tyria than even our characters. But i really dont think he would take on a job that would involve throwing the humans Tyria into Chaos. I also dont remember anything saying Vael worked exclusively for one person or group - hes a mercenary.

Oh and Linsey appears to have commented on the Mysterious Stranger. Here are three things from her comment:

1. The stranger is not some random psycho.
2. The stranger is not Bahltek.
3. The strangers indentity may be revealed at a later date....

Nightow · Sep 12, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Oh and Linsey appears to have commented on the Mysterious Stranger. Here are three things from her comment:

1. The stranger is not some random psycho.
2. The stranger is not Bahltek.
3. The strangers indentity may be revealed at a later date....

Source (link) please?