Curse

Konig Des Todes · Jun 10, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

To resurrect this thread with new info.

A new concept art of GW2 (yes, confirmed by Regina to be GW2 for those who didn't know) won in a content and given to us at the beginning of this month. Titled "Snow Battle" and can be found here.

Now to the point. It's clearly Shiverpeaks. And the two in the back look like Norn to me. Norn in an "Ox" form. There is an Ox/Bison spirit, this is a known fact, and we now have GW2 concept art supporting Norn in another form. Though it's not certain it is a Norn, I think it looks like one (with a want none the less).

Opinions? Thoughts?

My opinion, this with the 3 Norn form concept from EN - Norn will indeed have more than one form, most likely one per animal spirit. This concept only makes my opinion in this stronger. Until proven otherwise, I think that is the case.

Neo Atomisk · Jun 10, 2009, 02:10 PM // 14:10

So im guessing the forms will be a sort of attribute split, or a kind of "support" attribute, like tactics/strength.

Obrien Xp · Jun 10, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

I was inclined to believe Ox aswell. However, do you not think it looks reminiscent of a more human-like minotaur?

Mordakai · Jun 10, 2009, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

And the two in the back look like Norn to me. Norn in an "Ox" form. There is an Ox/Bison spirit, this is a known fact, and we now have GW2 concept art supporting Norn in another form. Though it's not certain it is a Norn, I think it looks like one (with a wand none the less).

I'm not sure....

they could be monsters (like Minotaurs, as Obrien says, which also have a place in GW Lore).

Hate to bring mechanics into a Lore forum, but why would Norn need another "big" form?

Still, interesting idea, and I won't discount it out of hand. File this away until more "evidence" emerges!

Neo Atomisk · Jun 10, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I'm not sure....

they could be monsters (like Minotaurs, as Obrien says, which also have a place in GW Lore). I suppose that's plausible, but it would simply be a minotaur, not a Norn using Minotaur form.

Hate to bring mechanics into a Lore forum, but why would Norn need another "big" form? The norn have multiple animal deities, it is known that they can invoke the powers of them (we are shown bear, raven, and wolf in GW1), but it is believed that they can also utilize the powers of the other animals. Shapeshifting wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Also, Mechanics wise, as I've said before, the forms could be similar to an attribute split. Ursan = Power, Volfen = Speed, Raven = Support, etc.

Still, interesting idea, and I won't discount it out of hand. File this away until more "evidence" emerges!

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Mordakai · Jun 10, 2009, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

I suppose that's plausible, but it would simply be a minotaur, not a Norn using Minotaur form.

That's what I'm saying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

The norn have multiple animal deities, it is known that they can invoke the powers of them (we are shown bear, raven, and wolf in GW1), but it is believed that they can also utilize the powers of the other animals. Shapeshifting wouldn't be too far of a stretch. Also, Mechanics wise, as I've said before, the forms could be similar to an attribute split. Ursan = Power, Volfen = Speed, Raven = Support, etc.

Exactly. What would a "Bull" attribute be? Ursan is already the tank. Volfen is speed. And Raven is support...

Konig Des Todes · Jun 10, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

I was inclined to believe Ox aswell. However, do you not think it looks reminiscent of a more human-like minotaur?

That was my first thought, a more Greek-like minotaur. But then I thought "Wouldn't a Norn's Ox Form be like a Greek-like Minotaur?" which gave me the though.

Minotaurs are half-human, half-bull creatures. The original one just had the head, feet, and strength of a bull, and the rest was humanoid - also covered in hair. That is how I would see the Norn's Ox Form, except maybe the feet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Exactly. What would a "Bull" attribute be? Ursan is already the tank. Volfen is speed. And Raven is support...

That's the "attirbutes" for GW1. If by looking at GW1, Ox Form would be able to kd creatures easily.

However, I think that the Bear, Wolf, and Raven forms will be different than in GW1. Bear may be just pure strength, Ox could then be armor, Wolf could be speed, Raven could be blocking, Owl would be energy, wurm would be health

Past that, I can't think of any (that's the 6 confirmed deities, there are 2 other unconfirmed deities - Snow Lynx and Eagle). I would have to say that Eagle could be Critcal Hits (better eyesight?) and Snow Lynx be.... well, don't know.

Neo Atomisk · Jun 11, 2009, 01:07 AM // 01:07

Being a warrior, all this talk of Norn is arousing.

I'd love to see Norn be able to be that diverse. Maybe Ox could be a kind of Dervish? (Im thinking of Berzerking Bison)

Sirius-NZ · Jun 11, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Actually, it does replace Dervish forms pretty nicely. Which is, sadly, the only part of the class that was distinct enough to be worth the effort to keep.

I didn't actually think those characters were Norn when I first saw them - I had the impression the armoured character at the lower end of the picture might be a Norn out hunting minotaurs or something. While that could still be the case, there are a few things that make me think you're right; firstly the wand/mace/whatever, secondly the fact that they seem to dwarf the armoured character (which is pretty impressive considering how tall Norn are), and finally I think they might be wearing something. Not sure though.

Konig Des Todes · Jun 11, 2009, 06:59 AM // 06:59

The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.

Neo Atomisk · Jun 11, 2009, 12:19 PM // 12:19

It wouldn't be very Norn of him.

But I'd love to have an avatar of Frostmaw

Wurm form would be nice for the big battles I think i've heard about.

Obrien Xp · Jun 11, 2009, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?

Mordakai · Jun 11, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?

I assumed it was just a bone the monster was gnawing on when disturbed by the warrior.

I didn't even think they could be Norn, much less a Norn carrying a focus!

Not to rule that possibility out, there are plenty of skull/bone items in Guild Wars, so it is certainly possible, just not what I first thought of when looking at the picture. Which is what makes forums so fun to read!

Konig Des Todes · Jun 11, 2009, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Has anyone else looked at that mace thing and thought it looks like a skull atop another bone?

It reminds me of the Boar Scepters, personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I didn't even think they could be Norn, much less a Norn carrying a focus!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PLEASE don't make me have to point out how there are already Norn casters! It could be a focus or a wand! >_<

draxynnic · Jun 12, 2009, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

Actually, it does replace Dervish forms pretty nicely. Which is, sadly, the only part of the class that was distinct enough to be worth the effort to keep.

That's something I was thinking as well - the Norn forms could end up filling the same 'concept space' as Dervish avatar forms now, without requiring a profession to be made race-specific or raising the question of why members of races that don't worship the Six Gods are taking their form.

Which could mean that the distinction between Bear and Ox is that while they're both warrior-oriented, Bear is more about damage and health while Ox may be more tactical - possibly GW2's version of Bull's Charge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.

Actually, those Norn spellcasters you keep reminding people do exist tend to cover up reasonably well - it's just the martial professions that wear as little as possible. (And not all of them - Egil is fairly well-dressed from memory.)

It is possible, however, that after being driven from their lands that the Norn have started to armour up a bit more - after, you know, being driven from their homes, one might expect that they might decide that they need a few more advantages themselves to bring it back to being sport rather than being on the receiving end of massacre. :P

Konig Des Todes · Jun 12, 2009, 08:33 AM // 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Actually, those Norn spellcasters you keep reminding people do exist tend to cover up reasonably well - it's just the martial professions that wear as little as possible. (And not all of them - Egil is fairly well-dressed from memory.)

It is possible, however, that after being driven from their lands that the Norn have started to armour up a bit more - after, you know, being driven from their homes, one might expect that they might decide that they need a few more advantages themselves to bring it back to being sport rather than being on the receiving end of massacre. :P

Hmmm, that is true. Although on the armor part, I think that would depend. That is, if the Forms change the armor as well. I always saw the lack of armor as two things:

Making fights a better "sport"
And because the Forms would break the armor.

Of course, this wouldn't be the case if the forms change the armor as well, lore wise that is (of course it would in game mechanics, or else Norn would have to buy new armor after most uses of the Forms lol).

Also, the casters are mostly dressed in fur coats - the only thing showing on these creatures are fur (and fur capes!). Perhaps both Ox Form+Fur Clothing *that is, at least a fur cape*? The non-casters are more of metal and leather, while the casters are more of fur.

Mordakai · Jun 12, 2009, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

It reminds me of the Boar Scepters, personally.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PLEASE don't make me have to point out how there are already Norn casters! It could be a focus or a wand! >_<

Again, not saying they aren't, I was just stating I hadn't thought of it!

I just assumed they were monsters. Which may have to do with the fact they are dark, and menacing (which I know there are other Norn picts like that, as well).

Sirius-NZ · Jun 13, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

The horned-beings are wearing a cape or something, but at least upper body on the first, nothing else but fur. Also, another thing to go against the lower being Norn. The Norn are known to not wear much armor, or clothing, even in the immense cold of the shiverpeaks. Unless Norn culture changed, that figure cannot be a Norn at all - too much armor, for Norn it would probably "ruin the sport" too much.

Oh, of course. Agreed.

Obrien Xp · Jun 14, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

As far as I've noted, their merchants and bussinessnorn seem to wear the standard amount of clothing, warriors and spell casters on the other hand, follow the gw rule: "less armor=stronger ie. Silk Nighties>Kevlar"

draxynnic · Jun 15, 2009, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Hmmm, that is true. Although on the armor part, I think that would depend. That is, if the Forms change the armor as well. I always saw the lack of armor as two things:

Making fights a better "sport"
And because the Forms would break the armor.

Of course, this wouldn't be the case if the forms change the armor as well, lore wise that is (of course it would in game mechanics, or else Norn would have to buy new armor after most uses of the Forms lol).

Also, the casters are mostly dressed in fur coats - the only thing showing on these creatures are fur (and fur capes!). Perhaps both Ox Form+Fur Clothing *that is, at least a fur cape*? The non-casters are more of metal and leather, while the casters are more of fur.

That does present an interesting thought... What if they can transform organic material but not inorganic materials like metal? It would explain why caster-types wear their normal gear while their warriors are all running around in their equivalent of Gladiator's.

(It's possible that Norn warriors train to be intrinsically tough enough that any armour they could transform in wouldn't benefit them, while casters and tradesNorn are a little more vulnerable.)

Heavier armours could then show up in a similar manner as the druid armour workaround in D&D 3.X - they wear hides and carapaces of creatures that provide similar degrees of protection. Note that I say this without looking at the image in question to see whether it is metal or whether it could be made of something's carapace formed into plates...