Curse

Obrien Xp · May 24, 2009, 04:57 PM // 16:57

I've heard that shapeshifting into a dire bear (as I see them) will be possible in gw2. However, it was also stated that the other totems (raven, ox, wurm, wolf, and others) will also be available. It was not stated that one can "become the Wolf" or the like. I think that we will be able to shift into whichever animal we so happen to chose.

I posted here to have a lore based discussion on this, not a gameplay one. I'm wondering if the norn are able to shift into other things than the bear. The bear is their greatest spirit, but the others are useful in the hunt, why haven't they shifted into those aswell?

Free Runner · May 24, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

While its not shown in game i believe it was said somewere they could take on the forms of the other animals. It just so happens that the Norn in Eye of the North appear to only rely on the Bears strength. Why Anet decided to only show one of the forms is unknown - perhaps they had trouble with the models or skills....who knows. But we will no doubt see them in GW2.

caballo_oscuro · May 24, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

From the official wiki:

The Norn are a race of nine-foot-tall warriors who live in the northernmost Shiverpeaks. They revel in the harsh climes, leading dangerous lives among savage beasts. These mighty hunters are not organized into a single nation. Instead, those who display exceptional strength and prowess in battle establish homesteads, though they are certainly not considered "rulers". They often spend years at a time tracking a particularly strong or clever quarry; they never give up on a battle, a pursuit, or a friend.

The Norn revere the spirits of nature—from the wolf to the snow lynx—but the most powerful of these is the Bear Spirit, who, according to myth, blessed the Norn with the ability to change shape and "become the bear".

— The Guild Wars Eye of the North Manuscript

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Norn

From this you could discern that their shape-shifting ability is exclusive to changing into bear-form.

The official Guildwars2 wiki suggests they can shape-shift into bear form. Does not suggest any other form can be taken.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Norn

So officially there is not anything to suggest that Norn can take the shape of other animals, only that they can receive the blessings of the respective spirits.

Also, reading back on articles and suggestions regarding the Norn, I do not recall mention of being able to take on other forms being realised in the games, although the idea had been thrust about. For now, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

The Trouble With Me · May 24, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...&postcount=203

If you scroll down about 1/4 of the way, you'll see concept art depicting (presumably) norn in wolf, bear and boar forms. It's not necessarily evidence, but interesting nonetheless.

Konig Des Todes · May 25, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Eye of the North was rushed, so they only put in the bear form. There is concept art for a bear form, wolf form, and hog-like form as The Trouble With Me pointed out. Thus, suggesting *semi-officially* that Norn can take more forms.

Support for the bear form even being rushed would be the icon above the Norns' heads when using the Bear Form skill. It shows the same icon as shown when using the Avatar of Melandru skill.

In short, it is unknown, though possible and, in my opinion, likely, on whether or not the Norn can take on other animal forms.

Although, if there are more forms than the Bear Form, than they will still be limited to the Animal Spirits - of those known to be canon, Bear, Wolf, Owl, Raven, Wurm, Ox - of those suspected, Snow Lynx and Boar.

Sirius-NZ · May 25, 2009, 04:42 AM // 04:42

I do wonder whether Owl/Raven form would give you flight capabilities. The main issue is that that would have at least a couple major impacts on the game; firstly, you couldn't use terrain boundaries to block movement any more, and secondly, the click-to-move control system would no longer work (at least in its current form) due to the ambiguity in 2d->3d mapping...

Still. There are many, many ways they could make this cool. It'd probably be too much to expect the wolf form to recreate the kind of hack-and-slash glory I loved so well from Diablo 2, but one can hope...

Konig Des Todes · May 25, 2009, 06:51 AM // 06:51

Sirius, for GW2, there will be jumping which would remove many of the terrain boundaries. And iirc, it was said in the very minimal info we got that the click to move system will be removed in GW2 - though that may have been changed.

If not flight, higher jumping ability I'm sure. Or, the same excuse will be used for the Norn as for the Tengu - too heavy/don't know how to properly fly. x)

draxynnic · May 26, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

I'd say that if the Tengu could fly physically, at least some of them would learn how to do it. It'd too much of a potential advantage to just ignore - and the dream of flight would probably be even stronger in a bird-like race than in humans.

I suspect the main reason we only see bear forms is as has already been said - ANet only had time to implement one and they implemented the most prominent, whether because Bear is the most important spirit to the Norn, or for the more practical reason that bear form might actually be the best for the types of combat that Norn typically get into in EOTN.

Konig Des Todes · May 26, 2009, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

I'd say that if the Tengu could fly physically, at least some of them would learn how to do it. It'd too much of a potential advantage to just ignore - and the dream of flight would probably be even stronger in a bird-like race than in humans.

As said in the Factions Manuscripts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factions Manuscripts

Tengu are a unique species of avian humanoids found in both Tyria and Cantha. Females are generally larger than males of the species, though their plumage is plainer, even drab. Tengu lost the ability of flight some time in the distant past, but can use their almost human hands to wield all manner of weapons—when they want to. Their talons make most weapons superfluous. Tengu hate cooked food, and most live on a diet of fresh, raw meat.

So it's that they cannot fly, not that they don't remember.

Obrien Xp · May 26, 2009, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

As said in the Factions Manuscripts:
So it's that they cannot fly, not that they don't remember.

Darwin 4tw!

i want to see black tengu corrupted from the echowald. (though that's unlikely)

Konig Des Todes · May 27, 2009, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

Darwin 4tw!

i want to see black tengu corrupted from the echowald. (though that's unlikely)

:evil :

You're wish, was so close to occur in Nightfall.

Before you ask where I got that...

Concept Art book from the Nightfall Collector's Edition.

Neo Atomisk · May 27, 2009, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Does anyone else here think that IF we are able to change into whatever animal we want, they will be the different attributes? ie, bear attribute, wolf attribute, etc.

and whats this about tengu in the echovald? o_O where can I read up on this?

Konig Des Todes · May 27, 2009, 07:54 PM // 19:54

There are no Tengu in the Echovald. That is what Obrien Xp would want. The picture I posted is Concept Art for Tengu in Nightfall, which was removed (I think it was done for the Centaurs).

Obrien Xp · May 27, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

:evil :

You're wish, was so close to occur in Nightfall.

Before you ask where I got that...

Concept Art book from the Nightfall Collector's Edition.

Come to papa!

Those babies and GW: Utopia are the 2 things I wanted more than anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

There are no Tengu in the Echovald. That is what Obrien Xp would want. The picture I posted is Concept Art for Tengu in Nightfall, which was removed (I think it was done for the Centaurs).

I think it was the harpies that they used instead.
Tengu, Charr, and Heket. My 3 fav humanoid beasts, ones playable and one may come with expansion.

Looking back at the black tengu. Norn raven form anyone

I wonder if the norn turn into minotaur for oxen form or kveldulf for wolf form

BenjZee · May 27, 2009, 11:11 PM // 23:11

I remember they impress spirits of the bear, raven, wolf and i believe another one. These will be our rep titles perhaps?

Konig Des Todes · May 27, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

There are 7 animal spirits:

Bear, Wolf, Raven, Owl, Ox, Wurm, Snow Lynx. Owl was originally meant to be with Bear, Wolf, and Raven, but was reduced to a lesser deity. The Owl was probably the fourth you were thinking of.

Hopefully, there won't be rep titles in GW2.

Edit: IMO, they should do a new kind of favor system between certain races and the characters. Not the kind of favor we get, or faction, instead have a bar based on what the character does which can lower or raise with what we do.

If a human character helps some Charr out, the Charr's favor will raise, but if they fight against the Charr *unless it's a request from Charr to kill a rogue Charr like someone from the Gold Legion trying to gain power* then the Charr's favor will lower.

The higher the favor, the more allies and services, the lower the favor, the more enemies and fewer services from said race.

draxynnic · May 28, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Makes sense. And they also shouldn't tie skills to titles. At all.

Because, really, why should how much Group X likes me affect how good I am at using their skills? It might affect whether they're willing to teach those skills, but not their effectiveness once learned.

(Although for a human to win the trust of the Charr - or vice versa - should be a delicate affair, starting on the fringes of common interest and working in...)

Hyper Cutter · May 28, 2009, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Owl was originally meant to be with Bear, Wolf, and Raven, but was reduced to a lesser deity.

iirc, Owl might have been supposed to be in Raven's place originally (the first skill descriptions called Raven Blessing "Eulen" Blessing, and an owl hoots when you use Raven Swoop, or at least the Gate Too Far version)...

Obrien Xp · May 28, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Makes sense. And they also shouldn't tie skills to titles. At all.

Because, really, why should how much Group X likes me affect how good I am at using their skills? It might affect whether they're willing to teach those skills, but not their effectiveness once learned.

(Although for a human to win the trust of the Charr - or vice versa - should be a delicate affair, starting on the fringes of common interest and working in...)

I agree with the issues regarding title/rep skill effictiveness thing. I don't like it because, If I don't have max title I get booted from group.

The charr (well, the rebels) and humans got along (more or less) in eotn. Perhaps a similar situation will be reached of mutual respect from which comradery may be formed.

draxynnic · May 29, 2009, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obrien Xp

I agree with the issues regarding title/rep skill effictiveness thing. I don't like it because, If I don't have max title I get booted from group.

The charr (well, the rebels) and humans got along (more or less) in eotn. Perhaps a similar situation will be reached of mutual respect from which comradery may be formed.

That's largely struck me as an 'enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy, nothing more, nothing less...but perhaps they can be useful' thing. Pyre may have developed a genuine friendship with the character, or his accompanying the character may have been purely a matter of convenience (he didn't want to become a martyr of the rebellion, and sticking with a powerful adventuring group with lots of access to resurrection magic may well have looked like the safest place to be, especially if said group allows access to places where potential retaliation can't follow).

I suspect that the interchange possibly has allowed a limited opportunity for the Vanguard and the Fierce Warband to see the other side as people rather than just faceless enemies, but it seems that seed is going to take a long time before it germinates. Certainly, we know that at least at the start of GW2, the Charr and the descendants of Ascalon remain antagonistic.