Curse

Konig Des Todes · Jun 30, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Winnies, do you think you can add spaces between edits, it makes your posts easier to read.

Free Runner · Jun 30, 2009, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnies Bro

they now serve a dragon more horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria

I always figured that it was talking about the already native races in Tyria rather than the Dragons aswell. I'm not sure

Konig Des Todes · Jun 30, 2009, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I think "any other being" means including the other Ancient Dragons - at least those awake when "Malchor" was - which would be just Primordus.

draxynnic · Jul 02, 2009, 01:47 PM // 13:47

On the other hand, the quote speaks of "whispers" of a creature more powerful and horrible than any other creature in Tyria - this suggests that it's an in-world rumour rather than absolute fact.

Doesn't mean it can't be accurate, but it could just mean Malchor is the most visible of the ancient dragons.

Winnies Bro · Jul 26, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Wah! People have stopped posting!

Eliz Genevieve · Jul 26, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

are we forced to?
All there* was to say has been said.
The GW2 logo was made just to create impact along the fanbase, cannot be consider canon lore, so, as far as we know, the Shiverpeaks will not be melted.
And Malchor is stronger than Primordus, as implied in The Movement Of The World.

Mister_Smiley · Jul 26, 2009, 11:14 PM // 23:14

the logo is a half bad job, but it most likey does give us a somewhat idea of what it could look like in GW2, but of course we don't know till the official game or map comes out.

As for the most powerful Dragon, there is no where in the Movement that says that the orr dragon(i don't call him Malchor because we don't if that is his true name yet) is more powerful then the others. Personal i think that the one that is in the Charr homeland is probley the most powerful because he after all is bigger then them all.

Eliz Genevieve · Jul 26, 2009, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

As for the most powerful Dragon, there is no where in the Movement that says that the orr dragon(i don't call him Malchor because we don't if that is his true name yet) is more powerful then the others. Personal i think that the one that is in the Charr homeland is probley the most powerful because he after all is bigger then them all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Movement Of The World

Drowned by magic and then raised into service by the will of a monster so terrible there are only whispers of its nature, they now serve a dragon more horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria.

It does say it.

You're so worried to call him Malchor but you don't recall that we don't have in-game images to compare Grothmar to Malchor/Deep Sea Dragon?
And since when does size equals power?

Mister_Smiley · Jul 26, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

It says and i quote "more powerful than any other being in Tyria"

But that doesn't necessarily mean that he is most powerful dragon. Seeing that the dragon could not be connected.

Also just because the place in which he is close to is called Strait of Malchor doesn't mean his name is Malchor, it just suspected that his name is.

Thats is true size dosn't mean power.

Eliz Genevieve · Jul 26, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

gee.

all beings In Tyria. Dragons aren't beings? Heh.
Malchor is the community given name to him/her, that's why we use it, for better indentification and to throw confusions away. Nop, ya right, it's not the confirmed name to it. In this point, who cares?

That's what I said, size doesn't equals power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

Personal i think that the one that is in the Charr homeland is probley the most powerful because he after all is bigger then them all.

As far as we know, he is bigger than Primordus (for what we see at least) and bigger than Drakkar. Not bigger than Malchor or the Deap Sea Dragon.

Mister_Smiley · Jul 27, 2009, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Ok you win, his name is most likely Malchor(i still don't think it will be) and i suppose all beings in Tyria means even the other dragons.

But on a side note, if he is the most powerfull dragon, why not just kill all the others?

Eliz Genevieve · Jul 27, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

I didn't say his name was Malchor, just that we used it to better identification, instead of keep repeting Corrupted Orrian Dragon, or Orrian Dragon. Malchor. Simpler.

Regarding that side note: there's the problem. We don't know. We don't know if they're hostile to eachother, if they somehow mantain contact, what's their relationship, why are they there.. unanswered question by this time.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 27, 2009, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Winnies, stop rezing threads with useless posts. People, if he does so again and there is nothing to continue the thread, don't respond and it'll all be forgotten.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliz Genevieve

the Shiverpeaks will not be melted.

Actually, Linsey said some will melt. But not a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

As for the most powerful Dragon, there is no where in the Movement that says that the orr dragon(i don't call him Malchor because we don't if that is his true name yet) is more powerful then the others. Personal i think that the one that is in the Charr homeland is probley the most powerful because he after all is bigger then them all.

As Eliz pointed out, is stated. I even quoted - Winnies too. Size does not equal power in the least. Shiro, a former human, is stronger than most foes in Cantha, which are all bigger than him. "Malchor" isn't the name, but neither is "Grothmar" nor "Drakkar" - the only reason why those names are used is because it becomes tedious to call them "Undead/Orrian Dragon" "Dragon of Ice and Snow/Far Shiverpeaks Dragon" "Charr Homelands Dragon."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

It says and i quote "more powerful than any other being in Tyria"

But that doesn't necessarily mean that he is most powerful dragon. Seeing that the dragon could not be connected.

Uhm... yeah it kind of does. The dragons are all creatures on the planet. The Undead Dragon is the strongest of them all. Maybe not in power, but in its ruthlessness. Or maybe in power and ruthlessness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

Also just because the place in which he is close to is called Strait of Malchor doesn't mean his name is Malchor, it just suspected that his name is.

Actually, it's not so much suspicions as it is just easier to call him by his location. People often confuse this, which is why I use the nicknames and titles interchangeably, but no one ever said its name is Malchor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

his name is most likely Malchor

No. No! NO! It is not called that because it is "likely its name" - it's just easier to give a name than to call it by a title. Not official name. Same with Drakkar and Grothmar!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister_Smiley

But on a side note, if he is the most powerfull dragon, why not just kill all the others?

We don't know enough of the Ancient Dragon's nature to know this answer.

For all we know, Anet will pull some twist and make some of the Ancient Dragons good guys who didn't mean to cause the disasters when awakening! Doubt it, but with Anet, possible.

draxynnic · Jul 27, 2009, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Uhm... yeah it kind of does. The dragons are all creatures on the planet. The Undead Dragon is the strongest of them all. Maybe not in power, but in its ruthlessness. Or maybe in power and ruthlessness.

Although as I've mentioned, MOTW just says that it's rumoured to be the most powerful and horrible being in Tyria. Rumours aren't always correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

We don't know enough of the Ancient Dragon's nature to know this answer.

For all we know, Anet will pull some twist and make some of the Ancient Dragons good guys who didn't mean to cause the disasters when awakening! Doubt it, but with Anet, possible.

I could see this being the case when we get to Cantha. Obviously, the name of the empire comes more from all the smaller dragons, but why does Cantha have such a high dragon population? (Furthermore, one that was mostly benevolent before the Jade Wind... although come to think on it, this makes me wonder if Usoku drove out the dragons as well in his crusade.)

One possible explanation is that there is an AD somewhere in Cantha that 'broke ranks' with the others leading to its migration to Cantha (and coming to a compromise with the gods allowing dragons and related creatures to remain). Of course, what's happened since might mean it still wakes up really, really angry (if at all), but it's a possibility.

No, this is not an invitation for people to bring up the lighthouse dragon and so on again. That's architecture.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 27, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Furthermore, one that was mostly benevolent before the Jade Wind...

According to Albax, most, if not all, saltspray dragons were kind to others. The Jade Wind corrupted all the dragons except for Albax (and Kuunavang was freed from corruption due to near-death. Wonder why others don't...)

Benderama · Jul 27, 2009, 09:11 AM // 09:11

could all of that lava from the central transfer chamber be a volcano? ^^; i dunno just think it's a bit odd to have all this lava underneath the shiverpeaks, happens in heart of the shiverpeaks too?

Eliz Genevieve · Jul 27, 2009, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Likely.
If we dig deeper into the earth, what do we find? Heat, lava, rocks, and alikes.
CTC and HoS are located in the Depths Of Tyria, so, maybe not a volcano, just a lava ground.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Actually, Linsey said some will melt. But not a lot.

My bad.

draxynnic · Jul 28, 2009, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

According to Albax, most, if not all, saltspray dragons were kind to others. The Jade Wind corrupted all the dragons except for Albax (and Kuunavang was freed from corruption due to near-death. Wonder why others don't...)

That question has both a short answer and a very complex answer.

The short answer is that they're simply different forms of corruption. The Saltsprays, I think, were simply driven insane by the shock of what had happened to their environment - possibly in similar ways to the Naga and Wardens. The few examples of baby Saltsprays we come across (Shiny and the Saltspray Hatchling in the Alliance Battles) seem less inclined to fight to the death, so it's possible that their change in behaviour is purely mental - Saltsprays hatched since the Jade Wind were no different at hatching than those hatched before, but they've learned aggressive behaviour from their parents (who were either driven insane by the Jade Wind or learned their behaviour in turn from theirs until you get back to a Saltspray that was alive then). Kuunavang's corruption, however, was physically obvious and is presented as being a direct result of Shiro's intervention.

The long answer then raises the question of why Kuunavang's corruption was subject to the Beatdown Equals Friendship trope. It's possible that, while Kuunavang appears more like an Afflicted than a Shiro'ken, she'd actually been bound in a similar manner to the spirits in Tahnnakai Temple and other Shiro'ken (except that unlike those, she was actually still alive). Breaking the physical component of the bindings in battle then allowed the real Kuunavang to break free.

Alternatively, it was a true Affliction, but there was still enough of the real Kuunavang on the inside that once the afflicted flesh was burned/frozen/hacked off, the real Kuunavang was able to break free - kind of like the heroes were (possibly unknowingly - I don't remember any hints leading up to the mission that this was actually intended to be an intervention) acting as crude surgeons removing diseased flesh from a patient.

EDIT: Reviewing the Unwaking Waters mission on the wiki, it looks like it was known that a) fighting Kuunavang was necessary and b) doing so would somehow result in Kuunavang granting power to fight Shiro afterwards (which is interesting when the party leader then tries to turn it down...) Seems an area where ANet possibly should have filled in a few more of the details...

Axwind · Jul 28, 2009, 06:50 PM // 18:50

What would be a fairly cool is if the dragons' waking wasn't entirely of their own will, but rather prompted by another, darker entity with an agenda of his or her own that may or may not conflict with that of the dragons. After all, the dragons won't like being used as puppets, but neither would they ally themselves with what they see as lesser races just to throw off the one that woke them. Conflict among enemies, yes.

pamelf · Jul 29, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winnies Bro

I cant remember that either! hang on ill check...
edit: ahh here it is! The rise of the dragon beneath Orr caused the entire continent to surface, sparking a tidal wave that swept the coastline and drowned thousands.
nothing says that he's the most powerful, so i still think that primordus is!
edit: ive just noticed something of the movement of the world;Risen from the ocean by the will of a powerful undead dragon, Orr no longer stands under human control. The beings roaming those lands are twisted, perverted remnants of Orr's once-magnificent culture. Drowned by magic and then raised into service by the will of a monster so terrible there are only whispers of its nature, they now serve a dragon more horrible and more powerful than any other being in Tyria.

well i guess i was wrong! waaaahhh

They serve "A" dragon more powerful than any being in Tyria. It doesn't specify it's the undead dragon. Could still be Primordus...or some other as yet un-announced dragon.

The wording is ambiguous.