Jul 23, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56
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#41
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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Man, everyone seems to like the mursaat..but without the spectrail agony, they would be pathetic and easily crushed by just about any other army. Take away the Monster Skills and make it even playing feild, hen who would win?
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Jul 23, 2007, 08:21 AM // 08:21
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#42
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 7°13'35" E - 50°06'27" N
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Remember, at the end of Iron Mines? You watch the Mursaat eles just rip through the stone summit? Yeah....I just have memories of them gliding over the group of summit that just spanked by Spectral + lightning spike.
GG
Mursaat FTW.
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Oh yes, I remember that mission Especially I remember how I did the bonus there with a complete team of uninfused henchmen, without a single death. Spectral agony really isn't that scary. Some half-decent monking can hold up with that.
I also remember the mursaat being bombed to smithereens by the Dwarven catapult ice ships. And that's the Mursaat's main flaw: They die way too easily.
In the end I think the Undead would prevail. They come in very large numbers and now with Joko they have a leader again. They also have quite a few units with decent skillbars, especially now with the Awakened. Minion Masters (from Prophecies), Bonder Monks, Resurrects, Interrupts... it's all there.
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Jul 23, 2007, 08:48 AM // 08:48
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#43
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: By the Luxon Scavenger
Guild: The Mentalists [THPK]
Profession: N/
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and Edenial...
yeah the undead army is very strong
As for spectral agony, any army with monks carrying spirit bond would defeat them.
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Jul 23, 2007, 09:25 AM // 09:25
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#44
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Academy Page
Join Date: May 2007
Profession: Mo/
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Mallyx & Lords of Anguish & Army (which is basically the entire DoA) > All :-)
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Jul 23, 2007, 09:28 AM // 09:28
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#45
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Guild: Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
Especially I remember how I did the bonus there with a complete team of uninfused henchmen, without a single death. Spectral agony really isn't that scary. Some half-decent monking can hold up with that.
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so -30 degen + 100 direct damage per second, and -80% speed, attack speed, and skill useage isnt scary? There are only 3 Mursaat in the bonus groups there if you rush in 1st and get them to target you while ur infused then the henchies wont have a problem, let them go in 1st and ull see the real power of the Mursaat Note Heros are Autoinfused, as are henchies from Thunderhead Keep onwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KalleDamos
Man, everyone seems to like the mursaat..but without the spectrail agony, they would be pathetic and easily crushed by just about any other army. Take away the Monster Skills and make it even playing feild, hen who would win?
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Hmm sounds like u dont love the Mursaat Removing Monster skills also removes the torment creatures ability to spawn more significantly weakening them, it also makes Margonites heal less, the demons lose there best abilitys like fingers of Chaos, Juggernaughts, Abaddon, Base defenders. and Turtles then have no attack. Giants no longer knockdown, Grasping Ghouls, Shiro, Varesh, Juukundu, etc. lose all there attack abilitys, Kournans lose their Siege ability, Cosairs lose there slow downs..... the list goes on.
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Jul 23, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28
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#46
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Academy Page
Join Date: Aug 2006
Guild: Can't Touch [This]
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Titans would easely beat the %@#$ out of all the army's. I mean, once you start killing, the just multiply in just as strong monsters. And do you guys remember the titan-imps, they were a complete horror.
This doesn't even inconclude their ability to "summon"(?) a searing.
Last edited by Milan-V; Jul 23, 2007 at 05:27 PM // 17:27..
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Jul 23, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39
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#48
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Alcoholic From Yale
Join Date: Jul 2007
Guild: Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
Game play wise, Mursaat > all. Spectral Agony is like one of the most broken abilities. The monk mursaat boss could probably solo Mallyx
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lmao. Oh man, do I remember him. Willa the Unpleasant. Yeah...Willa could solo Mallyx with ease. I only killed it by dazing it, and Mallyx can't daze, gg.
Willa the Unpleasant > Anything.
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Jul 24, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50
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#49
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Aussieland
Guild: Prime Players Of [OSHA] ~ [dth] alliance. <3
Profession: Me/E
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If say, Titans where an option as a force on their own, they would hands down win. They are still considered the most difficult of enemies to kill, and the fact that whenever a titan is killed it divides. Power in numbers. Titans have both.
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Jul 24, 2007, 12:53 PM // 12:53
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#50
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 7°13'35" E - 50°06'27" N
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
so -30 degen + 100 direct damage per second, and -80% speed, attack speed, and skill useage isnt scary?
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No, it isn't. Degen caps at -10, that is 20 damage per second. Protective Spirit prevents about half of the direct damage. Even Alesia can handle a total of ~70 damage per second (only if Lina is quick enough with the prot and only if she isn't the target herself, I give you that).
I do not say that Spectral Agony is not powerful. It is a strong weapon, no doubt about it. In a 1 on 1, any mursaat would for sure defeat most other creatures the game has to offer (anything really apart from special units like Vengeful Aatxes, Horde of Nightmare or Rotscale and the like). But this is not a fair 1 on 1 we're talking about.
Quote:
There are only 3 Mursaat in the bonus groups there
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There are not many places where Mursaat come in groups of more than three. Apart from the beginning of Ring of Fire Mission and the end of Ice Caves of Sorrow mission, the only place that I can think of from the top of my head is the Ice Floe explorable. Thus, Mursaat will in most cases be badly outnumbered by groups from other factions. I'd wager that one Mursaat would have to kill four or five undead, to make up for the difference. Even more because, as mentioned previously, undead can both summon minions and resurrect.
Given that this whole discussion is based on the assumption of an even playing field (levelwise), the question comes down to: "Does Spectral Agony alone compensate for the by far inferiour numbers of the Mursaat?"
I'd answer that with "No". But really, your guess is as good as mine.
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Jul 24, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43
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#51
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Guild: Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]
Profession: R/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
No, it isn't. Degen caps at -10, that is 20 damage per second. Protective Spirit prevents about half of the direct damage. Even Alesia can handle a total of ~70 damage per second (only if Lina is quick enough with the prot and only if she isn't the target herself, I give you that).
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You clearly never tried THK in the days before Henchies were infused, Even with Mhenlo and Lina desperatly casting Reversal and Protective spirit, the Mursaat destroyed the Henchies and then partyless they destroyed you. Spectual agony tore through henchies like the cookie monster opening a Pack of Maryland choc chip. ![Wink](../Img/wink.gif)
Sure other races can res but whats the big issue with res, DP, meaning they just die again but faster
Last edited by Sophitia Leafblade; Jul 24, 2007 at 01:52 PM // 13:52..
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Jul 24, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20
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#52
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Feb 2006
Profession: W/
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My bets on the titans. If it were not for you they would have destroyed the whole of Tyria (that was their purpose.) But then again, the mursaat are pretty tough. What about a scarab army? They have a queen ^^. Also to consider, another searing could wipe out a heck of a lot of stuff and the dwarf seige weapons could do some damage.
So, yeah my moneys on titans.
~A Leprechaun~
Last edited by A Leprechaun; Jul 24, 2007 at 04:43 PM // 16:43..
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Jul 24, 2007, 06:22 PM // 18:22
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#53
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: none
Profession: P/
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you forgot 1 army, the wurms >
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Jul 24, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21
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#54
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: anytown USA
Profession: Mo/
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Ya good point leprechaun the scarabs could totally do some damage. Especially if they were all grouped up with traps like they are with kephet AND jade scarabs (now with feast of corruption in hardmode) dug in the ground around the trappers, and a bunch of monk scarabs with same abilities as kephet. That would be one hell of a devestating army.
Also, what about the djinn. Ya I know they dont really have a leader but imagine hundreds of djinn organized under somethings leadership, just imagine the destructive capabilities of that army. Remember you usually only fight djinn 3 at a time
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Jul 25, 2007, 01:53 AM // 01:53
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#55
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Guild: None
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
No, it isn't. Degen caps at -10, that is 20 damage per second. Protective Spirit prevents about half of the direct damage. Even Alesia can handle a total of ~70 damage per second (only if Lina is quick enough with the prot and only if she isn't the target herself, I give you that).
I do not say that Spectral Agony is not powerful. It is a strong weapon, no doubt about it. In a 1 on 1, any mursaat would for sure defeat most other creatures the game has to offer (anything really apart from special units like Vengeful Aatxes, Horde of Nightmare or Rotscale and the like). But this is not a fair 1 on 1 we're talking about.
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I don't know what you were playing but when I took on some Mursaat without infusion I was owned faster than frenzy+heal sigging a Aatxe. It sounds like that on paper but most of the time, spectral agony will kill you (It's not like Alesia or Lina can ward off two or more people with it)
Quote:
Given that this whole discussion is based on the assumption of an even playing field (levelwise), the question comes down to: "Does Spectral Agony alone compensate for the by far inferiour numbers of the Mursaat?"
I'd answer that with "No". But really, your guess is as good as mine.
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The Jades inflict spectral agony on each hit. Essientially once a unit has been hit with it (especially a monster mob without a guaranteed monk with him) then they're dead. A jade armour just needs to hit two units to kill them in a few seconds, that means they can EASILY make up for having far less units.
Honestly there's a reason why the titans 'killed' the mursaat off-panel because they would never be able to do it on screen.
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Jul 26, 2007, 08:52 AM // 08:52
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#56
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 7°13'35" E - 50°06'27" N
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
The Jades inflict spectral agony on each hit.
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That is incorrect. Maybe it used to be like that, but nowadays Spectral Agony has a recharge delay of 15 seconds and Jade Armors and Jade Bows don't use it at all.
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Jul 26, 2007, 10:22 AM // 10:22
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#57
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Guild: None
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyfour-onesevenfive
That is incorrect. Maybe it used to be like that, but nowadays Spectral Agony has a recharge delay of 15 seconds and Jade Armors and Jade Bows don't use it at all.
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AFYI, I can say honestly that it has happened. I engaged the 3 jade at the beginning of the RoF mission (without a Mursaat anywhere near aggro) and was hit with SA with each hit
Look on the talk page for Spectral Agony on wiki (near the bottom, I don't know how to link to certain parts on a page). I'm not the only person saying it
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Jul 26, 2007, 11:06 AM // 11:06
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#58
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
Guild: Dragon Slayer Guild [DSG]
Profession: R/
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I have seen spectual agony been Cast by Jades, but from reading the page its very possible Anet changed this secretly in an update over the times. So nice find there
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Jul 26, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23
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#59
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 7°13'35" E - 50°06'27" N
Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF]
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I stand corrected. /bowhead
Well, this changes just about everything. It's quite a big difference whether a couple of fragile casters use a skill every 15 seconds, (no matter how devestating that skill is, they would eventually succumb to superior numbers), or if it is applied with each hit of the physical units, too.
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Jul 29, 2007, 10:25 AM // 10:25
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#60
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jun 2007
Guild: Electric warfair
Profession: E/Me
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you guys left out the most destructive army! the 55 monk bots at granite and hotspring! they have made that 2 place their outpost and is raising money to take over >.<
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