Curse

Filszul · Aug 03, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Well, it's been bothering me for quite a while so I decided to post it.

Basically, as we all know the Deldrimor dwarves were changed into stone by the Great Dwarf to fight the destroyers. And that's a fact. Ok then, but what about the Stone Summit dwarves? They were xenophobic folk and most likely didn't follow the Great Dwarf. Besides they showed little to no interest in fighting the destroyers. So what I'm saying is that they can be still be perfectly fine, even after the fall of their leader Dagnar Stonepate. They just probably elected another one, as they're still ready to fight the players in Eye of the North, eg. Vloxen Excavations.

Anyways, that's just an idea I had. Can't say nothing for sure, but this could be a way to implement larger dwarven settlements in Guild Wars 2. If I got something wrong, please correct me.

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Xenophobic.
Xenophobic.
Xenophobic.
If Anet wish to stick with their lore, there will be no accessible dwarven settlements if they were built by Stone Summit dwarves. It just wouldn't make sense.

Unless, it was part of a mission where we raid the settlement and kill everyone! Wooo!

But, you never know. A new Stone Summit Leader could usher in a new age where they are no longer xenophobic and wish to ally with other races in order to fight the ancient dragons.

Plus, don't quote me on this, but weren't there some Deldrimor dwarves who didn't turn into stone?

Free Runner · Aug 03, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I'm pretty sure that Eye of the North is showing the downfall of the Stone Summit....or should i say what remains of the Stone Summit. Their presence in the Far Shiverpeaks and the North in general seems to imply they are desperatly trying to gain power. Vloxen Excavations has them looking for an ancient power but of course they didnt seem to understand what that was, and were thwarted by Heroes anyway.

While its not said explicitly, i'm pretty sure the last stand for the Stone Summit is Slavers Exile. Duncan the Black trying to get the power of the Great Destroyer seemed like their last effort, gathering all the remaining ones under powerful leaders, and they are......beaten. Sure there may be some still around but i dont think theres enough of them to continue on.

Filszul · Aug 03, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Well, they've been damaged, but they've got a serious advantage. They can actually reproduce

(As long as there are any females around that is.)
As Fate Crusher said, it might be possible that a new leader united the Stone Summit and joined the remaining people of Tyria in their war against the dragons. In the end, if the dragons won, the Stone Summit would be destroyed too, so it might be a "fight and win or do nothing and die" situation.

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Just to twist it more...

Maybe they united with the dragons! waaaaah!

lol.

but i was just reading up "The Movement of the World". and it is said that the Norn are forced out from the Northern territories and take refuge in the now abandoned Dwarven territory. So dwarven-style settlements could still be there, just not filled with dwarves ^^.

also from the Article:

Quote:

The fight between the Dwarves and the Destroyers consumed the Dwarven race. Few lived to return to the surface and tell the tale of their victory—and those who did had been irrevocably altered. No longer made of flesh and bone, no blood pumped through their veins. Instead, they found their bodies composed entirely of stone surrounding nothing but cold, hard earth.

No longer interested in maintaining their solidarity as a race, these last Dwarves scattered across Tyria, finding battles to fight in the deep caverns or making new homes in far-flung hills, ever-watching the borders where caverns emerge into the surface world. Those few individuals who can rightfully claim to have met a Dwarf in their lifetime are rare, and all speak of the strange, driven passion that consumes these few survivors.

They're long gone, dude. With no passion to rebuild their race or culture, not to mention made entirely of stone, The Great Dwarf pwned his own people!

Filszul · Aug 03, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Still, I think the article describes the fate of the Deldrimor, even tough it says "Dwarven Race". My point is the Stone Summit probably rejected the Great Dwarf long before the events in Eye of the North. They almost created a new dwarven race, obsessed with gaining independence and power. Just speculations, I know, but it's fun to speculate

Bob Slydell · Aug 03, 2009, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Just to twist it more...

Maybe they united with the dragons! waaaaah!

lol.

but i was just reading up "The Movement of the World". and it is said that the Norn are forced out from the Northern territories and take refuge in the now abandoned Dwarven territory. So dwarven-style settlements could still be there, just not filled with dwarves ^^.

also from the Article:

They're long gone, dude. With no passion to rebuild their race or culture, not to mention made entirely of stone, The Great Dwarf pwned his own people!

So i guess, if you are made of stone, you live forever, since if we encounter the last remnants of stone dwarves in GW2... it WILL be 200 years into the future, haha.

Know what also sucks for the dwarves? Last time I checked, me and a team of non stone and fleshy henchman single handeldly took down the Great Destroyer..without the dwarves' help. Guess they turned into stone for the lawlz.

Oh there could also be dwarf 'ghosts' in gw2.

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

So i guess, if you are made of stone, you live forever, since if we encounter the last remnants of stone dwarves in GW2... it WILL be 200 years into the future, haha.

As long as they don't walk under acid rain or subject themselves to the effects of weathering, they should be immortal

Yeah, this article is probably the only piece of lore that i will actually believe. And since there is no mention of those Xenophobic dwarves that scared the crap out of me when i first played Guild Wars (i was 14 and i had a vivid imagination...), their future will forever be unknown to me.

And i like that.

BrettM · Aug 03, 2009, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Plus, don't quote me on this, but weren't there some Deldrimor dwarves who didn't turn into stone?

Yes. There were a few in Battledepths, including Orozar Highstone and High Priest Alkar, and a few outside, including Kilroy Stonekin and Budger Blackpowder. Plus, of course, Ogden.

However, if you talk to them in the endgame area after "A Time for Heroes", you get the impression from some of them that they plan on undergoing the ritual themselves in the near future. (And didn't Ogden say he wouldn't be undergoing the transformation "at this time" in the cutscene after "Heart of the Shiverpeaks"?)

So the transformation was clearly not a one-time deal, and it's possible that all the Deldrimor dwarves eventually underwent it. Even if they didn't, there may have been too few of them to perpetuate their race.

Thalador Doomspeaker · Aug 03, 2009, 07:36 PM // 19:36

But where are all the Dwarven women? After we killed the Great Destroyer the remaining fleshy Dwarves (Kilroy, Budger, Orozar, Alkar, Ogden and a few soldiers) could return to their beloved dwarven "chicks" and restart the whole dwarven race. After all we didn't see any women that underwent the ritual. Perhaps they are still out there somewhere.

Edit: The Stone Dwarves could handle the remaining Destroyers in Depths. So nothing depends on a few dozen Dwarves.

Filszul · Aug 03, 2009, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Or they could cross-breed with the dragons and create pure imba Dwarfagons. I definitely want Dwarfagons as a playable race! They could be like riding giant dodo birds and drinking Mountain Dew all night long.

Seriously though, I believe we'll see the dwarves in GW 2 in one form or the other, I just thought of one of the ways for ANet to implement them - the Stone Summit.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Aug 03, 2009, 08:24 PM // 20:24

1. Konig can correct me but I beleive he said Slavers Exile was the last stand of the Stone Summit and they where more or less wiped out after it.
2. Oggy for the time being is not stone, neither are a few merchants if I am correct.
3. Seeing as the stone dwarfs dont die as far as I know. They could have there little place in GW2. I don't really care either way the only important races imo are humans, charr, and asura.

Gmr Leon · Aug 03, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kerwyn Nasilan

1. Konig can correct me but I beleive he said Slavers Exile was the last stand of the Stone Summit and they where more or less wiped out after it.

It's the general consensus, I think, amongst the lore community, not just with him. Even if they weren't wiped out there, any pockets of Stone Summit in the Far Shiverpeaks would be wiped out or twisted by Drakkar. And we probably will encounter the Deldrimor Dwarves again, albeit, in their stone form. We have to have a foothold to set out against Primordus's forces somewhere and with someone, and who better to fight with than our old allies the Deldrimor Dwarves. Although where we'll find them is another question entirely..

Fate Crusher · Aug 03, 2009, 08:51 PM // 20:51

I believe the foothold will be occupied by the Norn. they after all, took hold of the territory.

Ooooh, warped Deldrimor Dwarves will be fun to fight!

The article explains that the Dwarves are now very rare to come across in one's lifetime, as they are scattered across Tyria, constantly fighting or still being driven by the Great Dwarf to kick Destroyer butt.

My money's on a converted Ogden to appear from the depths to help you. Either that, or he'll take you to your ancestor's HoM >.<

Sidenote: Speaking of the HoM, how the hell can we access that if that area has been taken over by the dragons? My guess is Glint's teleport xD

EDIT: Here is the link to the article if ya'll want to peruse it: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_..._World#Dwarves

Gmr Leon · Aug 04, 2009, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

I believe the foothold will be occupied by the Norn. they after all, took hold of the territory.

Ooooh, warped Deldrimor Dwarves will be fun to fight!

Er..They didn't take hold of the Depths, or any point in the Depths. As far as we know, none of the races that we interact with have. That is, of course, in the future.

Also, it would be warped Stone Summit Dwarves, and that's if there were any pockets of them left over from our attacks on them, and if they survived in the 250 years between the present and GW2's present.

Konig Des Todes · Aug 04, 2009, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Filszul

Ok then, but what about the Stone Summit dwarves? They were xenophobic folk and most likely didn't follow the Great Dwarf. Besides they showed little to no interest in fighting the destroyers. So what I'm saying is that they can be still be perfectly fine, even after the fall of their leader Dagnar Stonepate. They just probably elected another one, as they're still ready to fight the players in Eye of the North, eg. Vloxen Excavations.

The Stone Summit were mostly wiped out at the end of Prophecies due to the death of their leader in Thunderhead Keep and the destruction of their main base called Sorrow's Furnace. Those in EN that we see are the exiles. Slavers' Exile is the last bastion of the Stone Summit. Duncan the Black's death means the end of the Stone Summit.

Also, they worshipped the Great Destroyer on large.

Stone Summit leaders after Dagnar's death were the Heirophants. Most were killed in Sorrow's Furnace, the last (hence the quest name "The Last Heirophant") was in Slavers' Exile. After that, all the leaders would be dead, and probably the possible leaders as well. All you'd have left would be groups like in

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Plus, don't quote me on this, but weren't there some Deldrimor dwarves who didn't turn into stone?

I think it was said somewhere, and the Movement highly implies this, that those who were not changed eventually did undergo the rite.

Fate Crusher and Filszul, though I know there is nothing wrong with it, but please don't make hypotheses with just thoughts like the "dwarfagons." We will likely see some stoned Deldrimor Dwarves (I think being turned into stone somehow prevents them from being corrupted by at least Primordus - or else they wouldn't really be living weapons against the Destroyers *and I think Primordus is the true Great Destroyer*).

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

It's the general consensus, I think, amongst the lore community, not just with him.

Everything we have, from Stone Summit Exiles in the Far Shiverpeaks and the death of their leader and destruction of their main base, and the death of their last heirophant (aka last leader), only points out to either the Stone Summit being completely wiped out, or those who survived are so small in numbers, and weak, without leaders that a single Norn could take on all survivors and survive without so much of a scratch.

draxynnic · Aug 04, 2009, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thalador Doomspeaker

But where are all the Dwarven women? After we killed the Great Destroyer the remaining fleshy Dwarves (Kilroy, Budger, Orozar, Alkar, Ogden and a few soldiers) could return to their beloved dwarven "chicks" and restart the whole dwarven race. After all we didn't see any women that underwent the ritual. Perhaps they are still out there somewhere.

Edit: The Stone Dwarves could handle the remaining Destroyers in Depths. So nothing depends on a few dozen Dwarves.

Maybe they're like Pratchett dwarves and the women are indistinguishable from men to the outsiders?

As for the Stone Summit... I agree with the consensus - they're no longer a going concern. Any survivors left after they'd had their rears kicked all across the Shiverpeaks probably wouldn't have been enough to form a viable population... and it's possible that the Great Ritual eventually caught up with them whether they wanted it to or not.

(Which actually brings up an interesting question... what if the Stone Summit rebellion was actually a last-ditch effort to bring about the survival of the Dwarven race through making a deal with the Great Destroyer instead of fighting it?)

Konig Des Todes · Aug 04, 2009, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Which actually brings up an interesting question... what if the Stone Summit rebellion was actually a last-ditch effort to bring about the survival of the Dwarven race through making a deal with the Great Destroyer instead of fighting it?

It is possible some were tricked with this belief, but any who knew the prophecy regarding the return of the Great Dwarf and Great Destroyer would know that the dwarven race would cease to exist no matter who won.

I think Dagnar, and his higher ups, just wanted a totalitarian rule over all of the Shiverpeaks and to keep all other races out, dead, or subdued (slaves). The lowers were probably promised some sort of "nobility" status after the SS took over the Shiverpeaks. Those who didn't join for gaining something after the war was finished, were probably forced into joining. And yes, I used SS instead of Stone Summit for a reason - Dagnar and the Stone Summit seem to be a dwarven parallel to Hitler and his SS.

draxynnic · Aug 04, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

That could be because the prophecy assumed that the dwarves would fight, and they would need to undergo the Ritual to win. So, there were two options - undergo the Ritual and cease to be a propagating race, or don't undergo the Ritual and be wiped out along with everyone else.

The Summit, however, may have been attempting to take a third option - let everyone else die, come to some sort of accommodation with the Great Destroyer, don't undergo the Ritual, and survive. Whether this actually had a chance of working is anyone's guess.

vamp08 · Aug 09, 2009, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

...The Great Dwarf pwned his own people!

I wouldnt so much as to say that. What would you prefer, bless your people with the gift of invincibilty and pass their legacy into ledgend and beyond; or take a sword through the chest by a Destroyer of Flesh?