Curse

Roupe · Jul 01, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Bloodstone Caves doesn't have any support of it being Orrian

A bloodstone is in it. And Arah are the place Doric went to in order for the Bloodstone to be created.
Sure
The Gods could have commissioned anyone to build it.
It could be renovations from diffrent times.

Not to mention that The History of Tyria tells that the Stones were dropped into place (so they could just have placed it regardless of who built the surrounding area)

But the Gods at that time had their own city & special servants (many of them). They were building at the time, and Magic was their grand opening gift.

So its more likely they used their own personnel to oversee its completion. Especially since the depths of Tyria looks is a mesh of architectural styles. Having several building teams involved, could explain it. Or that the depths look so identical. (discounting the IRL reasons, and adapting in game to fit the result)

Konig Des Todes · Jul 01, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

The bloodstones were put into the volcano called Abaddon's Mouth. The volcano erupted and spread the Bloodstones everywhere. One landed right next to the volcano, one in the Maguuma, and one in the Bloodstone Caves. The structures were built around them long after Doric died and the Gods left the world. They wouldn't have commissioned anyone to build it - most likely.

Their current location is randomized, for the most part.

Gmr Leon · Jul 01, 2009, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Roupe, I highly suggest checking your sources before you post something, it will help prevent criticism and it means your posts will be more constructive to the discussion rather than mistaken or misunderstood information. If anyone at all had built the Bloodstone Caves, it seems like the ones who may have controlled it before, and while I detest having to say it, the Mursaat were going to take Evennia and Saidra to a nearby Bloodstone, rumored to be in the Shiverpeaks, confirmed to be the one in the Bloodstone Caves.

I'm sure you can make the connection from there.

Roupe · Jul 01, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Gods can probably predict things in advance.

Just because the Mursat used the Bloodstone in the Bloodstone cave, doesnt mean they built the cave/ catacombs connecting to its landing spot.

They most likely found it, the place have few mursat Architechtures except at the Stone itself.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 01, 2009, 07:00 PM // 19:00

I doubt that. If they could, then why didn't they do anything to prevent Nightfall? Or Odran creating the portals? The Searing, cataclysm, Jade Wind, Dhuum's attack on the Underworld, Menzies' attack on the Fissure of Woe which included traitorous Eternals?

Nothing supports the Gods being able to predict things, in fact, it shows against it.

Gmr Leon · Jul 01, 2009, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roupe

Gods can probably predict things in advance.

Just because the Mursat used the Bloodstone in the Bloodstone cave, doesnt mean they built the cave/ catacombs connecting to its landing spot.

They most likely found it, the place have few mursat Architechtures except at the Stone itself.

Never said they had to have built it, but it would make sense that they found the Bloodstone, and made a path to it. Also, it would appear as though they never had a chance to use that Bloodstone.

draxynnic · Jul 02, 2009, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I doubt that. If they could, then why didn't they do anything to prevent Nightfall? Or Odran creating the portals? The Searing, cataclysm, Jade Wind, Dhuum's attack on the Underworld, Menzies' attack on the Fissure of Woe which included traitorous Eternals?

Maybe they did, but for their own reasons, they felt the actions that they took were, well, the best ones to take. Possibly because they've also seen the alternatives.

Consider that one of the examples of prophecy we have seen - the Flameseeker Prophecies - came from a divine agent (Glint), foresaw the Searing (and probably the Cataclysm as well), and even afterwards was fairly apocalyptic in nature (depending on how you look at it it was either aimed at more permanently containing the Titans after releasing them, using the Titans to break the Mursaat before cleaning up the resulting mess, or, possibly, deliberately weakening the walls of the Realm of Torment to accelerate Nightfall, possibly so that Kormir could take Abaddon's place). It seems entirely possible that the gods had foreseen all those disasters (if Glint has the power of prophecy, it's logical that the gods have access to it as well) but they had their own reasons for allowing them to happen.

Al Dente · Jul 02, 2009, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowmere

The Seers?

I really hope that is the case. They are probably the best looking NPC in the game. Although they only had a minor role in Proph, I really did like them. They really do need to have some more lore and backstory added to them then "We don't like the Mursaat"

Mordakai · Jul 02, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

It seems entirely possible that the gods had foreseen all those disasters (if Glint has the power of prophecy, it's logical that the gods have access to it as well) but they had their own reasons for allowing them to happen.

Off topic, but this reminds me of a great scene in Dr. Who (Tom Baker), where he has a chance to destroy the Daleks.

He hesitates, then decides not to, knowing that although the Daleks cause great destruction, they also unite races and end other wars.

Perhaps the gods realize even though these catastrophic events cause great harm, good things do happen as well (although I doubt people like Gwen would accept this premise).

Piippo · Jul 03, 2009, 08:03 PM // 20:03

There's three alternatives about the Eyes origins:
A) It's a huge Goa'uld weapon of mass destruction that nobody knows how to use since all the Goa'ulds that knew how to use it are dead. Of course the heroes (us!) finds out how to use it in Guild Wars 2 and defeats the dragons with it.
B) The Gods put it there, whatever their reason was and its only purpose in the GW universe was to show where the Great Destroyer was hiding.
C) It was built by some yet unknown race or by a very minor one that we least would expect (True Giants, Wurms?? Why not?)

I don't think the Mursaat built it. What would they be doing so high up in the north? Wasn't (Isn't?) their capital somewhere in the Maguuma/Tarnished Coast region? And wouldn't they still be at the Eye?

The Seers are also possible, but I don't believe it was them either. If it was built by them, then why aren't they still there? If the Eye belonged to the Seer but they got killed by the Mursaat, why aren't the Mursaat there, then?

Personally I believe in B), but if the devs has stated that the Eye will have a role in GW2, then it would be C)

Nodakim · Jul 03, 2009, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Yeah, I misremembered. I thought it was the Forgotten who were using the Mountains in the fight.

I think it is foolhardy to link all of the dungeons together, especially because of the Shards of Orr (and Bloodstone Caves doesn't have any support of it being Orrian). I think that Shards of Orr, at least, exception is an exception with who built the dungeons. Along with certain parts of other dungeons (mainly, the naturally formed areas).

I am still unsure of the creators as my research isn't finished, but I don't view them all to be the same creator. Just most.

As for the 6 civilizations devoted to just one god. Very possible. We already have seen 3 such groups.

Druids=Melandru
Margonites=Abaddon
Zaishen=Balthazar

Nothing thus far supports Grenth (or Dhuum), Dwayna, or Lyssa having a civilization dedicated to just him/her. Though that doesn't mean there were more than just the three, of course.

Maybe Orr=Grenth.
I dont know how many information we have about Orr,but I know it isnt that much.
The fact that Khilborn and Livia are both Necromancers (and probably the only Orrians actualy in Guild Wars) and that the left overs are occupied with undead may be a clue.
Edit.Razakel is also an necromancer who pretended to be a Warrior,possbily another hint.

Free Runner · Jul 03, 2009, 09:43 PM // 21:43

I dont think Orr would ever follow a single god. If i remember correctly Arah was a very sacred place to the Orrians due to it being the city the gods resided in. So i would guess they followed all gods. And Livia is a Krytan while Razekial was never an Orrian to begin with he was a demon posing as one.

Nodakim · Jul 03, 2009, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Geesh,you are right about Livia,I had here as Orrian in my mind,probably because she said she is going to Arah.
And about Razakel,is says he is a form of Terrick which participated in the Cataclysm,so he wasnt pretending?

Free Runner · Jul 03, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Terick is Razakels disguise. Razakel was a demon that pretended to be an Orrian by the name of Terick. So Razakel was never Orrian because well..hes a demon. Terick is just his disguise which he used to play his part in the Cataclysm. He continues to use this disguise in the Realm of Torment (I'm guessing he was a spy for Abaddon) until he shows his true self.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 04, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Nothing says the Mursaat "capital" is in the Maguuma or Tarnished Coast region. It is just as likely to be North of Kryta. And it is a two weeks carriage ride from Kryta as well (though they could have gone in circles to fool Saul).

I'm going to ignore the Stargate reference in A. And why not the Wurms or Giganticus Lupicus? because the first has no limbs, and the second are too big. It would have to be Mursaat, Gods, Forgotten, Seers, or an unknown race. No if's ands or buts about that, to be honest.

We see Tengu, Centaur, Charr, Dwarven, Norn, Margonite (Tyrian and otherly), we see only desert Forgotten *possibly different elsewhere* and many human structures. Three above we have not really seen a good amount of structures of. And of course, there is always the option of an unknown race.

-ignores the four comments above since Free Runner handled it

-

Gmr Leon · Jul 04, 2009, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Actually, we can't say we've seen sufficient amounts of any of the other race's architecture, I'd say. We have a fair amount of Tengu, Charr, Forgotten, Norn, and Dwarven, but I'd still be willing to say very little in the way of Charr and Forgotten, and practically nothing of Centaur and Margonite.

Centaur, most certainly, and the reason I say Margonite is because the structures we do see were built more in a time of desperation due to the lowering sea level than in any permanent manner. Not to mention that it's fairly easy to doubt that they lived only aboard ships, and that they most likely had at least some form of inland architecture.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 04, 2009, 04:46 AM // 04:46

True, we haven't seen Tyrian Centaur, but we have seen Elonian Centaur. As for Margonite structures, true, but the Eye wouldn't be Margonite anyways - too far from the Unending Ocean.

Charr, it is possible, but it is so far unlikely. Same with Tyrian Centaur - but the Centaur is closer.

Gmr Leon · Jul 04, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

True, we haven't seen Tyrian Centaur, but we have seen Elonian Centaur. As for Margonite structures, true, but the Eye wouldn't be Margonite anyways - too far from the Unending Ocean.

Charr, it is possible, but it is so far unlikely. Same with Tyrian Centaur - but the Centaur is closer.

But still not much of Elonian Centaur. (Although, at the moment, the Elonian Centaur architecture eludes me as I don't recall it.)

Konig Des Todes · Jul 04, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Just look at the two Ancestor Trees. What they have are simple hammocks. The suspected Maguuma Centaur structures are little tent-like. It seems to me that Centaurs - of what we know at least - are not very advance in structures. When I was doing my centaur research, you even said that they wouldn't really need structures due to their most likely to be nomadic nature in the area. Besides all this (as we are now going off topic), we can knock out Centaur from the builder's of the Eye - how could they get to the top to build the higher parts?

Piippo · Jul 04, 2009, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I'm going to ignore the Stargate reference in A.

And in that you do wisely. But the main idea of A) isn't inpossible. That the Eye was built by some race that was in a war against the dragons and it was intended to be used as a weapon against them. Either the dragons defeated them before they had a chance to use it or the weapon itself failed somehow. The Eye (if it's a weapon) could be used against the dragons in GW2 if this is the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

because the first has no limbs, and the second are too big.

Obviously

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

It would have to be Mursaat, Gods, Forgotten, Seers, or an unknown race. No if's ands or buts about that, to be honest.

This brings back my question: If the Mursaat or the Seer built the Eye, why aren't they still living there? Where they wiped out by some other inhabitants of the Far Shiverpeaks (which seems strange since the only race that could possibly be a treat are the Norn, and it's very unlikely that the Norn defeated the Mursaat or the Seers)?
If indeed someone (or something) killed the builders, I'm sure the Ebon Vanguard would have found some signs of battle or that it had been inhabited before (remains, signs of fire etc.) and I'm sure Gwen would have mentioned about it when she told that the Vanguard found the Eye totally empty and abandoned.

It's most likely the Gods who put it there (reason:unknown, but will propably come up in GW2) but it's also likely that it was a yet unknown race (which we'll propably also learn about in GW2)