Curse

The 8th · Dec 04, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I'd really shoot (hope) for it being somehow tied to the seers. The only things we know about them is that they're old, and they hate the Mursaat (and that they look eerily like Protoss, but that's a little off topic), which leaves a lot of wonderful questions open; like why they hate the Mursaat, are they working for somebody else, do they have some sinister unknown motive, are they somehow related to the Ancient Dragons, and will this sentence ever end? I would be quite upset if all we ever saw of the Seers was there short and almost pointless intervention while we where wandering. around the Shiverpeaks.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 07:54 AM // 07:54

While I myself would love for more information on the Seers, I think many of those questions you said, 8th, is a case of pointless suspicions.

Working for someone... does an entire race have to work for someone?

Do they have a sinister unknown motive... is there support for such an aquasation? While the Mursaat have been proven to be not the lesser of two evils like it was thought, but in fact the lesser of two goods (proved by the Flameseekers Prophecies mission book - Abaddon's Mouth mainly), that doesn't mean the Seers are evil.

Relation to the Ancient Dragons... as far as we know, there is nothing that relates to the Ancient Dragons other then what is said in the Movement of the World and possibly the Giganticus Lupicus.

And all sentences end.

Dmitri3 · Dec 04, 2008, 08:57 AM // 08:57

Hm, well, the Eye (outpost) is full of eagle heads... everywhere you look, there's an eagle motif. Eagle vs Dragon is pretty popular culture, so I doubt it's dragons that built it. Also, "Eye" can pretty much mean the renowned vision of eagles and "North", well, it's already pretty obvious now.

Now, is there some Eagle race in GW or at least anyone that worships eagle (maybe in the way Norn do)? I guess it'll just stay rumors till GW2.

Free Runner · Dec 04, 2008, 12:06 PM // 12:06

We know it wasnt the Norn, Asura or Humans. The Charr dont seem to have been the ones who made it ether. Ogden also says that it was not a dwarven structure. I doubt the Tengu made it so that takes them out.

The hero states that it was put there by something much more powerful than men - the Forgotten are not exactly powerful, they were just caretakers. And looking at it, the eye really doesnt look like something built by the forgotten.

So that leaves the Mursaat and Seers - we have no idea on their origins, only that the Seers once tried to destroy the Mursaat. We dont know the full power of ether race - the Seers only share their knowledge of infusion and the Mursaat only display an ability which doesnt appear to be strictly Mursaat. None of them display the ability of Visions ether despite the name.

So yeah the Seers and Mursaat are the best (and only logical) suspects. There is also the possiblity that it was placed there by the gods or something we have yet to hear about.

Dmitri3 · Dec 04, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I doubt the Tengu made it so that takes them out.

Well, by the looks of it, Tengu could be a potential candidate. Not at it's current state, but there is always something about a great civilization falling and evolving into something less powerful. Being half-birds, at some point they probably could fly... so it's entirely possible it's some kind of Tengu's ancestors.

P.S. Looks like all eagle heads in outposts have some wings too, so creature need to be able to fly...

P.P.S. I personally doubt Mursaat and Seer... If it were them, why would they place some eagle head basically EVERYWHERE on the damn building? Great civilizations and powerful beings rise and fall every time, there's gotta be more that 2 choices.

Free Runner · Dec 04, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Well if we're thinking like that, Ascalon structures were created by gargoyles and the Tarnished Coast by dragons/lizards. Each area has its own arcitecture with gargoyles, dragons, eagles and snakes. That doesnt mean that they built it though.

Eagles have extremely keen eyesight, and the Eye of the North has the ability to see what the user wants no matter how far it is. Its not farfetched to think that Anet placed the eagle structures there based on that.

Quote:

Great civilizations and powerful beings rise and fall every time, there's gotta be more that 2 choices.

They are the only choices based on what we know of the current races. I did say that it could of been the gods or something we have yet to hear about. But compared to what we know of the Tengu, they dont fit the bill for creating powerful Vision devices.

Neo Atomisk · Dec 04, 2008, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I have to agree with azrael on the seers.

Btw does ANYONE think the mursaat and seers are aliens? I mean the seers look like stereotypical Martians. And the gods have been said to have created other worlds.

Not to mention that spectral sometimes refers to the stars.

Free Runner · Dec 04, 2008, 05:23 PM // 17:23

There are theories that the Mursaat came from the Mists rather than orginating from Tyria. The Mists work like the Universe so yeah that would make them Ailen to Tyria. But its not been proven due to the mystery surrounding them.

The same thing has been wondered about the Seers since they obviously have a grudge against the Mursaat. But we have no information on the Seers other than them being Enemies of the Mursaat and in some cases, the Titans, they hunt down Eidolons and are able to communicate with Glint.

Infact its hard to tell how many there are - despite the name change from "Seer" in the Shiverpeak to "Ancient Seer" on the Ring of Fire Island Chain, the dialogue suggests that its the same Seer over and over.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Well, by the looks of it, Tengu could be a potential candidate. Not at it's current state, but there is always something about a great civilization falling and evolving into something less powerful. Being half-birds, at some point they probably could fly... so it's entirely possible it's some kind of Tengu's ancestors.

Read the Factions manuscripts, Tengu in old ties were able to fly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri

P.P.S. I personally doubt Mursaat and Seer... If it were them, why would they place some eagle head basically EVERYWHERE on the damn building? Great civilizations and powerful beings rise and fall every time, there's gotta be more that 2 choices.

As said, Eye is a representation of an Eagle's sight. The eagle heads could have been placed to emphasis that, not because it was eagles or eagle worshipers that built it.

The Eye of the North could have been used (and actually still is) as a watchtower of sorts. And then there is the Scrying Pool. That answers the name and the eagles.

And of the information we have, we have to bring it down to three (not two) choices:
Seers, Mursaat, or Unknown.

carnage-runner · Dec 04, 2008, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Here's an interesting idea to throw up.. The theory of it being built by the Mursaat, Is overly farfetched, seeing as the structure is not even remotely similar (except for the slightly slanted outer wall shape that all Mursaat structures have). My guess is Seer's, as an Eye of the North. Literally a post in which to see (see.. seer..?) the northern parts of Kryta. It would fit the bill if we found an "Eye of the South". I'm rusty, does anyone know of any suspicious relics maybe worshipped by the dwarves that has an unknown origin? That might be it, or it may be another campaign away.

"Gods built it" is the universal response to, "well if no races we know built it, then who did?" So.. the Gods built it to keep a watch over the dormant dragons. We have no clue of the full scope of power the Eye holds.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 10:30 PM // 22:30

For any southern structures that might be Seers. The only non-dwarf structures we see are the "dishes" in the Lyssa cave in Mineral Springs. Which is, ironically, near where the Seer can be found there.

And Mursaat is only said as possible because of how old it is. Their Ring of Fire structures don't match, but those are believe to be constructed out of the keystone bloodstone, and we don't see any other structure.

Lady Lozza · Dec 04, 2008, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Speaking of the eagles, if I remember correctly the small church thing in in the Abbey in pre-searing has similar busts.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 04, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

You do remember correctly. The building in Ashford Abbey is a very similar design to the Eye of the North. (Coulda sword I brought that up prior to this thread going dead for a while).

Any connection is, of course, unknown. As is the origin of said building in Abbey.

Neo Atomisk · Dec 05, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

@azrael: sorry for bein a lore noob, but I'm pretty sure that the bloodstones are pretty 1337 and won't be broken by anything really. And aren't the structures made of jade? *zomg theory of mursaat/luxons*

And I'm sorry, but I need to say 2 things.
1) the eye is really alienz spacecraftz zomg nubs.
2) dhuum/Menzies built the eye, after being corrupted by abaddon.

Sorry, had to put that in.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 05, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

@azrael: sorry for bein a lore noob, but I'm pretty sure that the bloodstones are pretty 1337 and won't be broken by anything really. And aren't the structures made of jade? *zomg theory of mursaat/luxons*

The Jade of the Mursaat is not real jade. As evidence by the color. The Bloodstones can be separated, as evidence of there originally being one but was broken into 5 via the gods. Also, as seen in the Bloodstone Caves, the bloodstones can be broken into pieces (the Bloodstone in Bloodstone Caves have fragments that are floating). And I think the Mursaat are smart enough to safely break the Bloodstone and use it for materials if they are smart enough to use them to harvest souls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Atomisk

And I'm sorry, but I need to say 2 things.
1) the eye is really alienz spacecraftz zomg nubs.
2) dhuum/Menzies built the eye, after being corrupted by abaddon.

Sorry, had to put that in.

1) ...

There are not even "aliens" - by that definition - in Tyria. Closest is demons, Seers, and Mursaat; only demons proven, and none except Mursaat and Seers have the technology to make "spaceships" - if there was even a need to, Mursaat can teleport *shown in Saul's Story in the BMP*, and I'm sure the Seer at least know of Odran's Portals.

2) Extremely unlikely. What would be the need of it? And don't go saying "to combat the Ancient Dragons" to go on the theory of Abaddon being a good guy and wanting to save the world from the Ancient Dragons that I have seen and has no backing.

Lady Lozza · Dec 05, 2008, 04:35 AM // 04:35

All in all I'd throw my hat in with the Seers, if only because presumably the EotN (the building) stands to protect the scrying pool within.

Of course the logical answer is that we really don't know

carnage-runner · Dec 05, 2008, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Defining moment of EotN and it not being created by the Mursaat. They don't use metals. As is shown by all of their body construction, and weapon construction. EotN is made entirely of metal and wood, niether of which the Mursaat use for building structures. And if they were protecting the scrying pool, they would have built a fortress like protecting the Door to Komalie, not some petty building with a big wood door.

Free Runner · Dec 06, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Its never said that the Mursaat built the Onyx Gates on the Ring of Fire. The fact that the Jade Armour golems look very much like Abaddon and the bridge found near the Door of Komalie is found in Abaddons prison suggests that the Mursaat simply took over the place. Also we have yet to see Mursaat structures - the manuscripts give a description of the Mursaat city - "a city of massive towers reaching up into the heavens" - and we have never seen this city.

Kemal X · Dec 06, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

I kinda thought after reading a slight bit of lore that maybe Mursaat just took over those cool shiny buildings (jade structures in Fire Islands) which were left from the Gods ( they made the Bloodstones, so isn't it possibility that they had built something around the Keystone, and yet again this goes more further and further in speculation as we cannot 100% know if the RoF Bloodstone is the keystone). Jades (the monsters) might just be some sort of guardians Gods used, and are now fueled by mursaat magic or something. Would explain a bit why there was that bridge in Abaddons Gate whoch looks like the bridges in RoF. Though I think this comment is just some mindless rambling spiced with loads of speculation and slight bit of tiredness. I hope I made at least someone confused.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 06, 2008, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemal X

so isn't it possibility that they had built something around the Keystone

The Keystone wasn't there when the gods left. The volcano erupted and sent the bloodstones in different places. That one Bloodstone just happened to not go far.