Curse

Malchior · Oct 26, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Right then, I don't suppose anyone thought they'd be seeing a new topic here any time soon what with everyone on GW2 guru and all.

I have a question about the Door of Komalie. Forgive me if this has been asked before, but I did search through alot of the lore and this forum for answers and found none. I'll work backwards and then get to my question...

The door is currently being kept shut by Soul Batteries, which are powered by the soul of the Lich Lord, after he was killed by us players on the bloodstone. From what I understand it's somewhat of an infinite power supply keeping the door closed now.

Before that however, the Soul Batteries were powered by the souls of the Chosen that the White Mantle and Mursaat sacrificed upon the Bloodstones.
The Mursaat wanted the door to stay closed because from what they knew, behind the door was the power to bring about their undoing.

But the white mantle only started worshipping the Mursaat as gods shortly after the searing if I am correct. And by the time we reach them in the storyline they have been sacrificing the chosen for two - perhaps thee- years. Before that, the Mursaat weren't in the picture and the white mantle never existed because the charr hadn't invaded Kryta on the large scale they did after Ascalon was out of the way, and as such Saul D'Alessio hadn't yet discovered the Mursaat in the first place.
So if no one had discovered the Mursaat, and the White Mantle didn't exist, then that means that no chosen were constantly being killed on the Blood Stone.

So I ask you; What powered the Soul Batteries before the searing?

Was the door simply left open? If so, why would the Mursaat allow it to be open if they knew that a power capable of defeating them was able to come out of it?
Did the Mursaat sacrifice humans on the Blood Stone themselves? If so, then how is it they were never discovered earlier? Surely if alot of people go missing constantly with no explanation you get suspicious.
Was the door kept closed some other way? If so, what power source was used?

BrettM · Oct 26, 2009, 02:44 PM // 14:44

My own feeling on this is that the Door was originally closed, but not terribly difficult to open from the outside, just from the inside, like any jail. What the Mursaat added with the Soul Batteries were additional locks and defenses that were previously unnecessary because nobody was interested in opening the Door.

Assuming the Mursaat were familiar with the full Flameseeker Prophecies (which we are not, though everyone else we meet seems to be), they may have felt there was no need to make this effort and reveal themselves until there were clear signs that the Prophecies were about to be fulfilled. Surely the Searing and the fall of Orr would have been among those signs, and perhaps the arrival of Saul D'Alessio in the Mursaat city was also foretold. At that point the Mursaat shifted into high gear, building fortifications in the Ring of Fire, slaughtering the Chosen, and adding locks to the Door of Komalie.

Captain Bulldozer · Oct 26, 2009, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Interesting question... Are you sure you've got your facts straight about the chosen being needed to power the soul batteries? I thought they were eliminated because the flame-seeker prophecies told of the chosen bringing about the end of the Mursaat race.

We do know that the race of seers was at war with the Mursaat for a long time, and was eventually pretty much wiped out by them. Perhaps the seers were being used to power the batteries in some way, if they needed recharging at all. Or perhaps the mursaat found individuals amongst themselves worthy of sacrificing. Still, if the batteries need constant recharging, why would they stay permanently recharged from the death of the Lich?

Malchior · Oct 26, 2009, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Interesting question... Are you sure you've got your facts straight about the chosen being needed to power the soul batteries? I thought they were eliminated because the flame-seeker prophecies told of the chosen bringing about the end of the Mursaat race.

We do know that the race of seers was at war with the Mursaat for a long time, and was eventually pretty much wiped out by them. Perhaps the seers were being used to power the batteries in some way, if they needed recharging at all. Or perhaps the mursaat found individuals amongst themselves worthy of sacrificing. Still, if the batteries need constant recharging, why would they stay permanently recharged from the death of the Lich?

I think so, but I think they were also killed because they were the chosen too. I'm not sure. I know that the Lich being killed on the blood stone gave the soul Batteries a soul that could power them forever, so on that basis it would make sense to need lesser souls to be killed on a regular basis because they don't have an infinite power source.

BrettM · Oct 26, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bulldozer

Interesting question... Are you sure you've got your facts straight about the chosen being needed to power the soul batteries? I thought they were eliminated because the flame-seeker prophecies told of the chosen bringing about the end of the Mursaat race.

The Mursaat are a very thrifty race. Waste not, want not. Since they had to eliminate the Chosen anyway, why not use them? If nothing else, they wouldn't have to take the risk of killing a bunch of non-Chosen just for battery duty. It is also possible that only Chosen would be usable for the purpose. If you find an owner's manual for the Soul Batteries, let us know.

In any event, the Chosen were used this way. When they are killed, you can see their life force flooding the lines on the Fen Bloodstone and charging the Soul Batteries hanging over it.

Quote:

Still, if the batteries need constant recharging, why would they stay permanently recharged from the death of the Lich?

We don't know that the Lich permanently recharged the batteries. Obviously he charged them enough to re-seal the Door, but then the volcano erupted. If the Door is now buried in lava, perhaps it doesn't matter if the batteries stay charged. It's going to be mighty hard for anything to get through that Door when it's blocked like that!

Also, one might suspect that the Lich's soul was NOT permanently trapped in the batteries, since we encounter the Lich in Nightfall. That certainly seems like a good clue that he was released at some point during the years between Prophecies and Nightfall.

Malchior · Oct 26, 2009, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

The Mursaat are a very thrifty race. Waste not, want not. Since they had to eliminate the Chosen anyway, why not use them? If nothing else, they wouldn't have to take the risk of killing a bunch of non-Chosen just for battery duty. It is also possible that only Chosen would be usable for the purpose. If you find an owner's manual for the Soul Batteries, let us know.

In any event, the Chosen were used this way. When they are killed, you can see their life force flooding the lines on the Fen Bloodstone and charging the Soul Batteries hanging over it.

We don't know that the Lich permanently recharged the batteries. Obviously he charged them enough to re-seal the Door, but then the volcano erupted. If the Door is now buried in lava, perhaps it doesn't matter if the batteries stay charged. It's going to be mighty hard for anything to get through that Door when it's blocked like that!

Also, one might suspect that the Lich's soul was NOT permanently trapped in the batteries, since we encounter the Lich in Nightfall. That certainly seems like a good clue that he was released at some point during the years between Prophecies and Nightfall.

Huh, I wasn't aware the door was covered in Lava... I've only played that mission once, and once was enough, lol. Either way though, the door is a passage to The Foundry of Failed Creations, which is the realm of torment, yes? Isn't that where we next meet the Lich? Shiro too.
Perhaps he never escaped at all, perhaps he's still trapped but can move between areas in the Realm of Torment.

But that still doesn't explain what powered the Soul Batteries in the past...

Hailo · Oct 26, 2009, 08:54 PM // 20:54

I think that no one knows, maybe Anet didn't even plan on putting that into the story, but they might possibly reveal it later on in GW2 somehow.

Gmr Leon · Oct 26, 2009, 09:07 PM // 21:07

It has to be remembered that the Soul Batteries appear to be, and likely are, a Mursaat creation. As such, they would not have always been present and sealing the Door of Komalie. In other words, the better question may be, what kept the Door sealed in the first place?

It seems a given that the Soul Batteries have always been powered by souls, albeit the souls of what in particular remains a question, and I know this doesn't really answer your question.

As to BrettM's thoughts on the Door, I think he (she?) may be right that it was closed. I suspect that if anything, the Searing and Cataclysm occurring so soon, one after another, may have spurred the weakening of reality and thus the deterioration of the Door's natural seals, which would have then required further seals, in this case, the Soul Batteries. As to how those events would have weakened reality..It's a very weak idea that a large influx of souls between the planes causes it to occur, which has no real support for it whatsoever. The only alternative I can think of is a large usage of magic, but even that's not well supported.

In regards to what was keeping it closed..Well, I've already posed my idea above that it may have had some natural seals about it. After all, it leads into the Foundry of Failed Creations, whoever or whatever created that Door either didn't give a care and didn't create any seals, or it made sure to create seals in the process of opening it as it saw what emerged.

Also, it should not be assumed that the Door of Komalie is covered in lava, or igneous rock, albeit a likely possibility.

I would also like to point out that I suspect that not only the Chosen were used in the Soul Batteries, given Justiciar Hablion's dialogue during the Bloodstone Fen mission:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justiciar Hablion.

I am the scythe, the Bringer of Salvation. And I shall harvest the souls of the Unbelievers. For their stench will linger. Until the false gods have been cast from this world.

Skye Marin · Oct 26, 2009, 09:44 PM // 21:44

The Door of Komalie, normally, can only be opened with the Scepter of Orr.

The Soul Batteries are probably a creation of the Mursaat specifically made to counter the Scepter of Orr. Kind of like plugging a padlock with gum.

Vizier Khilbron:'The Mursaat have covered the volcano with potent anti-magics. Even now I can feel them draining my power away.'

The Door of Komalie could be opened readily with the Scepter, so the Vizier just needed the players to destroy the batteries, so he could open it.

I'd imagine that, as time goes on, the Lich's soul won't be able to keep the batteries charged, so the Scepter of Orr will once again be able to open the door.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 26, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

The Door of Komalie, normally, can only be opened with the Scepter of Orr.

The Soul Batteries are probably a creation of the Mursaat specifically made to counter the Scepter of Orr. Kind of like plugging a padlock with gum.

Vizier Khilbron:'The Mursaat have covered the volcano with potent anti-magics. Even now I can feel them draining my power away.'

The Door of Komalie could be opened readily with the Scepter, so the Vizier just needed the players to destroy the batteries, so he could open it.

I'd imagine that, as time goes on, the Lich's soul won't be able to keep the batteries charged, so the Scepter of Orr will once again be able to open the door.

You must be Tzu Qui Jinn on the GW2Guru. The Scepter of Orr has no affect on the Door of Komalie. The Door is opened by destroying the seals (powered by the Soul Batteries).

In Abaddon's Mouth, while you destroy the seals, you can see portions of the Door of Komalie fall and the "force field" open up. When the last one is destroyed, it completely falls and before Khilbron reaches the spot the tear appears. Also, these quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade Warrior Olivio

Make your way up the volcano into Abaddon's Mouth and open the Door of Komalie. Vizier Khilbron will show you the way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khilbron

At last the door of Komalie! Those seals hold back our allies. Break them open and bring this fight to an end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undead Rurik

Kill the Lich while he stands atop the Bloodstone inside the caldera.

Show that it is the seals (and souls) not the Scepter of Orr that keeps the Door closed.

Aside from this, I'm going to stay out of the discussion (for now).

Malchior · Oct 26, 2009, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

It has to be remembered that the Soul Batteries appear to be, and likely are, a Mursaat creation. As such, they would not have always been present and sealing the Door of Komalie. In other words, the better question may be, what kept the Door sealed in the first place?

It seems a given that the Soul Batteries have always been powered by souls, albeit the souls of what in particular remains a question, and I know this doesn't really answer your question.

As to BrettM's thoughts on the Door, I think he (she?) may be right that it was closed. I suspect that if anything, the Searing and Cataclysm occurring so soon, one after another, may have spurred the weakening of reality and thus the deterioration of the Door's natural seals, which would have then required further seals, in this case, the Soul Batteries. As to how those events would have weakened reality..It's a very weak idea that a large influx of souls between the planes causes it to occur, which has no real support for it whatsoever. The only alternative I can think of is a large usage of magic, but even that's not well supported.

In regards to what was keeping it closed..Well, I've already posed my idea above that it may have had some natural seals about it. After all, it leads into the Foundry of Failed Creations, whoever or whatever created that Door either didn't give a care and didn't create any seals, or it made sure to create seals in the process of opening it as it saw what emerged.

Also, it should not be assumed that the Door of Komalie is covered in lava, or igneous rock, albeit a likely possibility.

I would also like to point out that I suspect that not only the Chosen were used in the Soul Batteries, given Justiciar Hablion's dialogue during the Bloodstone Fen mission:

Good input. So the question has changed... I think I'll need to sleep on this, hopefully a penny will drop or something. I might head over to the mission outpost and see if there is any remnence of an older seal in the morning.

draxynnic · Oct 27, 2009, 11:34 AM // 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

In regards to what was keeping it closed..Well, I've already posed my idea above that it may have had some natural seals about it. After all, it leads into the Foundry of Failed Creations, whoever or whatever created that Door either didn't give a care and didn't create any seals, or it made sure to create seals in the process of opening it as it saw what emerged.

This is actually an interesting point: what was on the other side? When did the Forgotten start to lose control over the Foundry? It may not have mattered if the Door was wide open on the Tyrian side if the jailors were keeping it secure on the other side. Maybe the Mursaat started reinforcing it because of the Prophecies, or maybe they were just keeping an eye on it, noticed that it was opening, and slammed the Soul Batteries over it... possibly after a couple of skirmishes from things coming through.

This might also go some way to explaining why the Searing happened when it did, rather than two hundred years ago when the Titans and Shamans first made contact - maybe the Searing was held back (or not possible) until Abaddon's supporters gained enough control of the Realm of Torment to get access to the Door. (Which makes the Envoys taking Shiro there especially unwise, but maybe they just didn't get the memo.)

An alternate way of looking at it is... how did other demons we know to have been active in the world before Prophecies get there? Maybe the Door had been open for some time. It could be interesting to find out that after the first few got through, the Mursaat started camping on the spot, using the things that came through when the Door weakened to recharge it until they got an earthly source of souls from Kryta. Those demons that got through may have done so before the Mursaat noticed the Door was open, or may simply have successfully run the gauntlet.

BrettM · Oct 27, 2009, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

This is actually an interesting point: what was on the other side? When did the Forgotten start to lose control over the Foundry?

If the Foundry is the only source of Titans, then the Forgotten must have lost control of it some time ago. Before the first contact between Titans and Charr, if that was the first known appearance of Titans in Tyria. (When did the Order of Whispers capture that Titan boss? Was that even earlier?) Certainly the Forgotten within the Foundry speak as if they had been trapped there for a long time, which must be long indeed to seem long to them, considering their lifespan.

OTOH, we have to ask who built the Foundry and why, since it must have existed before it was re-purposed into a prison. One could argue that Abaddon himself built it and used it before his Fall, perhaps to secret create Titans for his war against the other gods. In that case, the loss of control could have been fairly recent. However, it must have happened before the events of Prophecies, because one of the trapped Forgotten knows that the Door was opened by the Lich and then closed shortly thereafter, but does not know anything more about it.

I'm sure the existence of the Door predated the addition of the seals, which are clearly Mursaat artifacts as GmrLeon pointed out. (BTW, "he" is the correct pronoun.

) Perhaps destroying them was sufficient to fully open the Door once they were added to it, but something must have kept it closed before then. I don't see how a door could be open on one side and closed on the other, so it's hard for me to buy any theory that it was only closed on the Foundry side.

Come to think of it, we didn't actually "destroy" the batteries, since they were still present to be recharged by the death of the Lich. We simply broke the seals on them, releasing the souls trapped within and discharging them.

draxynnic · Oct 29, 2009, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

If the Foundry is the only source of Titans, then the Forgotten must have lost control of it some time ago. Before the first contact between Titans and Charr, if that was the first known appearance of Titans in Tyria. (When did the Order of Whispers capture that Titan boss? Was that even earlier?) Certainly the Forgotten within the Foundry speak as if they had been trapped there for a long time, which must be long indeed to seem long to them, considering their lifespan.

One comment here is that the Titans are occasionally referred to as being ancient. Since I doubt 1000 years is 'ancient' from the viewpoint of a Seer or Mursaat, I think there's a fairly good indication that they've been around since before Abaddon's rebellion. My suspicion, to touch on the paragraph with which you followed the above, is that the Foundry used to be the posession of one of the other fallen deities (possibly Dhuum, possibly Abaddon's predecessor) and was used as a prison for the Titan's after the fall of their original creator.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I'm sure the existence of the Door predated the addition of the seals, which are clearly Mursaat artifacts as GmrLeon pointed out. (BTW, "he" is the correct pronoun.

) Perhaps destroying them was sufficient to fully open the Door once they were added to it, but something must have kept it closed before then. I don't see how a door could be open on one side and closed on the other, so it's hard for me to buy any theory that it was only closed on the Foundry side.

Hrrmn. It could be that we actually saw a kind of backlash here - the seals were intended to reinforce the door, but the burst of energy when they were destroyed blew it open.

Or it could be that as Abaddon gained more and more control over Torment, he was able to apply more pressure from the other side. So it may not have been necessary for centuries, and then the Mursaat realised that the door was going to break soon without reinforcing and, well, reinforced it.

Konig Des Todes · Oct 29, 2009, 06:39 PM // 18:39

BrettM, the Titan boss was captured 100 years before Nightfall (first known Titan to walk on Tyria was 200 years before the Searing - when Shiro became corrupted and shortly after Odran opened the portals).