Curse

Malchior · Apr 09, 2009, 09:36 PM // 21:36

If you own Prophecies, you'll know of The Searing (Or at least you bloomin' should!).

"The Searing is the name given to the event during which giant, burning crystals brought about by powerful Charr magic landed on the once beautiful land of Ascalon and turned it to red dust and rock. Once the embers settled the Charr were able to overcome the Great Northern Wall and march through Ascalon, Kryta and Orr."

This thread is about the Charr Altar that is actually used to cause the searing (Picture Here) and general Lore about it.

A few things to focus discussion on are:
Exactly where did the crystals fall from? I know it's magic and all, but huge crystals normally have to come from somewhere.

Was the Altar Charr-made, or perhaps crafted by another race? (Like the dwarves use things that the Asuran made)

Was there more than one? If not, can it be used over and over or is it a one hit wonder?

Did the Titans have a hand in this? Perhaps even a higher power.

I was doing a little research into the Altar in Post-Searing. I did manage to find it's exact location, only to find any trace of it missing.
The following picture is a Pre map and a Post map of the same area. I've highlighted some landmarks and of course the location of the Altar itself:

I'm not sure if anyone has actually bothered to go to the spot of it before, but you can stand exactly where the altar once was at the end of The Great Northen Wall mission if you stray from the path back to the wall.
The spot it was in is of no use in post searing, yet it was put in and made accessable (prolly for players like me who would eventually seek it out). So if they knew it was that spot they were making ascessable why didn't they jazz it up a little and maybe put the ruins of the altar that held the Cauldron of Cataclysm?
Picture:

On another note, the Altar seems to simply destroy things within a certain radius of it, not specific areas. I doubt it can be aimed to fire away from itself, if it could have been aimed in any way they would have just placed it in their home lands and fired it at Ascalon (So think of it as a PBAoE skill, only with a much greater range). The charr you find guarding it in Pre-searing are either on a suicide mission, or know a nearby place of safety. The latter is more likely as they all survived and can be found after the searing. The following picture shows how the Altar was placed in the exact middle of the destruction:

That pictures shows that the location was picked because it's right bang in the middle of everything they needed to destroy. Key places withing it's range were; Rin, Drascir, Surmia, Ascalon City, Ascalon Academy, Nolani Academy... The list goes on. It was all in the reach of the Altar, and if it wasn't, the fires that followed finished the job.

Right, that should be enough to get a few replies at the very least. If I've been mistaken about something here do feel free to post saying so and correcting me if possible. Also, I don't mind a bit of off-topic chat but don't go crazy.

Reminder:
Exactly where did the crystals fall from? I know it's magic and all, but huge crystals normally have to come from somewhere.

Was the Altar Charr-made, or perhaps crafted by another race? (Like the dwarves use things that the Asuran made)

Was there more than one? If not, can it be moved & used over and over or is it a one hit wonder?

Did the Titans have a hand in this? Perhaps even a higher power.

Discuss.

Answered Questions:

Was the Altar Charr-made, or perhaps crafted by another race? (Like the dwarves use things that the Asuran made)

The Cauldron of Cataclysm (Floating spikey bowl) was "Forged by ancient entities fallen into sleep and quiescence", so however you want to interpret that. The Altar beneath the Cauldren is charr made however, and was made solely to house the cauldron that out-dates the charr so.

Was there more than one? If not, can it be moved & used over and over or is it a one hit wonder?

After finding out that only the Cauldron itself is needed to cause the searing, it is safe to assume that it can be moved and used over and over. It can be assumed that it's possible to move it in the same way that the Ember bearers carry the Embers to light the Temple Flame in the Bonus of the mission Ruins of Surmia, shown Here. Notice how there are many Charr warriors present at the time the Cauldron was used (Here), no necromancers, mesmers, rangers, elementalists or monks. If you were going to protect it, then it would seem that a mix would be better than all warriors. It's possible that they are all flame bearers ready to move the Cauldron of Cataclysm deeper into charr controled territory for safe keeping.

The 8th · Apr 09, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Well the Ecology of the Charr tells us that the device was called the Cauldron of Cataclysm and it was given to the Charr by the Titans. I s'pose that means it would all tie in to Abaddon's overly complicated schemes. The bit about it having been original created by "ancient entities fallen into sleep and quiescence" smells of the Ancient Dragons, but it's a rather loose connection at best.

Malchior · Apr 09, 2009, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 8th

Well the Ecology of the Charr tells us that the device was called the Cauldron of Cataclysm and it was given to the Charr by the Titans. I s'pose that means it would all tie in to Abaddon's overly complicated schemes. The bit about it having been original created by "ancient entities fallen into sleep and quiescence" smells of the Ancient Dragons, but it's a rather loose connection at best.

That's an interesting read. I've read it before but forgot about it. I don't even remember the part about the Cauldron.

So do you think it's simply the floating Cauldron that holds all the power? It would make alot more sense because I've seen them float in travel before. "Carried" by charr warriors in the Ruins of Sumia mission. If that's so then it's highly likely that the Cauldron is still intact and still in the posession of the charr! :S

It would be awesome if aNet made a hard mode quest to either capture or destroy it or somethin'. Or if it can't be destroyed, bury it within a huge mountin.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 09, 2009, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Exactly where did the crystals fall from? I know it's magic and all, but huge crystals normally have to come from somewhere.

They were probably formed by magic. Turning energy into material things. Or, they were meteors - like the Scriptures of Abaddon say *connection stated later on*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Was the Altar Charr-made, or perhaps crafted by another race? (Like the dwarves use things that the Asuran made)

Creator unknown. If you read the Ecology of the Charr, you would know it's called Cauldron of Cataclysm, and was given to the Charr by the Titans. Possible that the creators also created the twin staves *Scepter of Orr and Staff of the Mists* and the twin swords *Magdaer and Sohothin* but this that's speculation on my part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Was there more than one? If not, can it be used over and over or is it a one hit wonder?

One can be found in the center of the sulferous haze in the Crystal Overlook in the Desolation. It is believed that this cauldron was the cause of the events in the Scriptures of Abaddon. There are also replicas found in a few places in Ascalon *Ruin's of Surmia bonus for one - might be others* and a bigger one in Sacnoth Valley - where you kill Hierophant Burntsoul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Did the Titans have a hand in this? Perhaps even a higher power.

While stated the Titans gave the cauldron, it is hinted that it's power comes from the Ancient Dragons - or at least something more ancient than the Titans.

Everything else *i.e., the radius and location of the Altar in post* is seemingly correct.

Edit: Beaten to some points by the 8th while doing JQ. :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 8th

Well the Ecology of the Charr tells us that the device was called the Cauldron of Cataclysm and it was given to the Charr by the Titans. I s'pose that means it would all tie in to Abaddon's overly complicated schemes. The bit about it having been original created by "ancient entities fallen into sleep and quiescence" smells of the Ancient Dragons, but it's a rather loose connection at best.

I always took the "forged by anicent..." as a reference to the magic. Not the creation of the object.

I don't see how... or why... the Ancient Dragons - who are so massive and powerful - would create a rather small Cauldron of such power. If they were to create something, I'd guess it to be the size of a mountain or something.

Malchior · Apr 09, 2009, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Konig Des Todes: Thanks for all the info. I have a few more things to add to this thread about the crystals and I also have to get the pictures of where the Altar for the Cauldron used to be too. It's late however and I'm up early so I'm going to save all the reading for when I wake up.

Oh, and about the Dragons, I can't tell if they're like mindless wandering ancient beings that warp everything in their path, or actually intellegent and the like. I know they're god-like, but I can't tell much more than that. Any insight for me?

Konig Des Todes · Apr 09, 2009, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Oh, and about the Dragons, I can't tell if they're like mindless wandering ancient beings that warp everything in their path, or actually intellegent and the like. I know they're god-like, but I can't tell much more than that. Any insight for me?

All we know of them are in the Movement of the World and the subtle hints in Eye of the North.

The subtle hints being that their magic seeps out of them unconsciously and through that, can change those who are influenced by it.

In other words. No insight as no one knows. We don't know if their primitive in thought, or are like Glint and Kuunavang and are intellectual.

For all we know, they never meant to hurt people, just escape from a prison and be left alone. The only dragons we know of that created minions and attacked others are "Drakkar" and "Malchor" - both of which woke near others and, for all we know, were attacked first. I for one wouldn't put it behind either Norn or Corsair to attack the two without thinking.

Free Runner · Apr 09, 2009, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

I always took the "forged by anicent..." as a reference to the magic. Not the creation of the object.

I know we always disagree over that line but i didnt understand what you meant here. Are you saying its implying that the magic itself was created by the entities (Which i still believe is a direct link to the Ancient Dragons due to it being too coincidental) rather than the actual cauldron that holds the magic? i would agree with that if its the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Oh, and about the Dragons, I can't tell if they're like mindless wandering ancient beings that warp everything in their path, or actually intellegent and the like. I know they're god-like, but I can't tell much more than that. Any insight for me?

Its not really stated but i would guess they are more than just a mindless force. For one they seem to be creating armies (at least two of them - Primordus and the Orrian Dragon. I cant recall if it mentioned that the Dragon of Ice and Snow also had minions swarming the Far Shiverpeaks). If they really were mindless surely Tyria would be a warzone with 5 (possibly 6) of them running around.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 09, 2009, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

I know we always disagree over that line but i didnt understand what you meant here. Are you saying its implying that the magic itself was created by the entities (Which i still believe is a direct link to the Ancient Dragons due to it being too coincidental) rather than the actual cauldron that holds the magic? i would agree with that if its the case.

Not so much created, but the source of the magic. Similar to how the Asura Gates are created by Asuras, but the magic powering them *prior to EN* is Primordus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

Its not really stated but i would guess they are more than just a mindless force. For one they seem to be creating armies (at least two of them - Primordus and the Orrian Dragon. I cant recall if it mentioned that the Dragon of Ice and Snow also had minions swarming the Far Shiverpeaks). If they really were mindless surely Tyria would be a warzone with 5 (possibly 6) of them running around.

It is because of this, and the fact that the Great Destroyer wasn't mindless, that I don't think that the Ancient Dragons are. And yes, the Dragon of Ice and Snow does seem to create an army in order to push the Norn south.

draxynnic · Apr 10, 2009, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Considering that the Charr were using the Catacombs, I'd guess the users of the Cauldron were able to take cover there. Hardly the safest place to be (after all, all the entrances we know collapsed) but it was probably still safer than above ground.

Or, like most PBAOEs, it may have had a safe zone around the casters.

It's also worth noting that the quest Fire And Pain supposedly involves a Charr Shaman trying to recreate the Searing - but why he'd be doing it in the Charr Homelands if it is as indiscriminate as your evidence suggests would be an interesting question. It's likely that Straut Flamebourne was, at most, playing with forces he didn't understand, and possible that from the Ascalonian perspective it may actually have been better to let him succeed...

(Oh, look, the Charr just blew up their own homelands. Guess we don't need the Ebon Vanguard to raid supply lines that no longer exist any more...)

Malchior · Apr 10, 2009, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Considering that the Charr were using the Catacombs, I'd guess the users of the Cauldron were able to take cover there. Hardly the safest place to be (after all, all the entrances we know collapsed) but it was probably still safer than above ground.

Or, like most PBAOEs, it may have had a safe zone around the casters.

It's also worth noting that the quest Fire And Pain supposedly involves a Charr Shaman trying to recreate the Searing - but why he'd be doing it in the Charr Homelands if it is as indiscriminate as your evidence suggests would be an interesting question. It's likely that Straut Flamebourne was, at most, playing with forces he didn't understand, and possible that from the Ascalonian perspective it may actually have been better to let him succeed...

(Oh, look, the Charr just blew up their own homelands. Guess we don't need the Ebon Vanguard to raid supply lines that no longer exist any more...)

Well, my theory on what happened to it after the searing is that they escorted it north to surmia, and eventually further north into the Charr home lands where it later appeared in the quest Fire and Pain. We know it had to be the Cauldron of Cataclysm because it's not charr made, and thus they can't just re-create the thing. And as for the catacombs I dunno... It doesn't seem likely as they must've known there was a chance it would trap them all if it collapsed.

In the mission "Ruins of Surmia", the bonus requires you kill some Flame Temple Keepers. They're standing around something that looks idential to the Cauldron. Now, keeping in mind the assumption that it can't be duplicated, do you think that this is the Cauldron of Cataclysm in Post-Searing Surmia?:

I'm aware lots of people have seen it before, and it's not a huge discovery. However when I first saw this I always assumed that it was just one of many of the same thing. But since there's only one true working Cauldron this is either a powerless copy to simply praise their gods with, or the actual Cauldron on it's slow travels to the Charr home lands. Thoughts?

EDIT: Forgot to say, I updated the first post with pictures of the location in post searing and some answers at the bottom. Correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

The 8th · Apr 10, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

I would imagine there are quite a few duplicates lurking around Charr-controlled lands.The cauldron was what the Shaman's used to grant the Charr the long promised solution to their little wall problem, and so probably became a potent symbol of the power of the Shaman caste and their religion. It would make sense for them to have modeled a few ceremonial items after the object. That's my theory anyways. Also once you complete the bonus in Surmia the cauldron there falls apart, whereas the Cauldron itself, when we encounter it in Sacnoth, remains intact when all the Charr are dead (if memory serves..I could be wrong on this though)I imagine such a powerful and ancient artifact would be a bit more resilient than a cheap Charr knockoff.

Konig Des Todes · Apr 10, 2009, 10:05 PM // 22:05

While it could be the same, and it makes sense - although it would move up in two full years instead of such little distance in two years then all the way up in six. But still, I agree with The 8th that the one in Surmia is a duplicate.

Notice the flame difference. In Surmia, it is pure normal fire. In pre- it's a blueish fire. I think before the Searing cinematic as well. Might be wrong on that part though.

I also suggest you take a look at the Crystal Desert and the Sacnoth Valley one - providing screenshots as well *preferably from the same angle for all four "cauldrons" - pre, surmia, crystal overlook, and Sacnoth*.

Shasgaliel · Apr 14, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

I would like to add something regarding the source of crystals. When you look at the Dragons Lair mission you have a lot of crystals there in the area and even the crystal automatons such as crystal guardians and crystal spiders. It is all magical and created/perserved by magic. In this case the crystals created for searing might be made from this blue energy while it hit the air. The falling crystals seem to be random ( I mean not hitting a particular targets). So I think the magic was just able to cummulate sufficiend energy in the cauldron and then make it into random crystal rain. Also Crystal desert is the place of the Ascension so that might be another loose link for the sourse of the crystal like magic.

draxynnic · Apr 14, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Well, there's actually another connection - the Crystal Desert was created by a magical cataclysm around the time of Abaddon's fall. It's possible that a more-powerful version of the Searing was what actually turned it into a desert (the background for the Desert reveals that the sand is actually composed entirely of powdered crystal).

Or it could just be that crystals are magically conductive in general and that the crystals in the Searing and in the Dragon Lair is actually no more significant than conductive metals being used in electronic devices.

Malchior · Apr 15, 2009, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Sorry I've been neglecting this for a few days, I've just been lazy and playing GW alot more. I went and found the Cauldron in the Desolation like you said, and it's exactly the same appart from the ruins that surround it. It even has spiked wooden poles and hide like the charr put on it. I also discovered that in Gwen's bonus mission, there is another Cauldron at the start of the mission on the ledge behind the siege devourer. It has orange flame and floats just like the rest of them. I don't think the one in the desolation has any flame in it though. I wonder what colour flame it would have...

Also, is there a known Cauldron in the Crystal desert or do you think that perhaps there is one shared between there and the desolation?

Konig Des Todes · Apr 15, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malchior

Also, is there a known Cauldron in the Crystal desert or do you think that perhaps there is one shared between there and the desolation?

It would be the later.

Malchior · Apr 18, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Though I haven't yet seen the cauldron in Sacnoth Valley, I think that is probably the only instance where it's the same cauldron that caused the searing. The other are most likely just knock-off or different ones used in different areas altogether.

But I think it's safe to assume that it works like a PBAoE spell would and the like, so that was worth while finding out anyway. Fun too! =P

Zaw · May 09, 2009, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Someone take pictures of all the cauldrons and locations on the map?

Malchior · May 10, 2009, 07:28 AM // 07:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaw

Someone take pictures of all the cauldrons and locations on the map?

I take the odd screen shot of them here and there, but there are alot. I found the one in the charr camp in sacnoth vally anyway. I think it'sa pretty safe to assume that we may never actually know which one was used for the searing.

Mordakai · May 29, 2009, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Hope this isn't too off-topic, and I probably know the answer but forgot it...

but anyway, if the Titans are all locked up, then what Titans do the Charr worship? How did those Titans escape?

(I'm going to feel like an idiot when someone tells me)