Curse

Sytherek · Nov 21, 2010, 02:19 AM // 02:19

From what I see in the other threads, it looks like many people (like me) think Thackeray should have run off with Miku, leaving Gwen to continue her shrewish existence at the Eye of the North.

After talking about how she needs to grow and change... well, to avoid spoilers, I'll just say that her response to Thackeray's proposal is childish and rude -- and a bit domineering.

On the other hand, I run her as a Domination Mesmer, so...

As it is, I regret helping Thackeray go "home" -- he deserves better than the Shrew of the North.

Hyperventilate · Nov 21, 2010, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sytherek

he deserves better than the Shrew of the North.

I 1000% agree.

Plus she went from, "Pish, Kieran can shove off." To, "Hmm." To, "He's hurt?" To "OMG ILU!"

Meh.

Anakita Snakecharm · Nov 21, 2010, 02:29 AM // 02:29

I thought she was at least semi joking. It didn't seem to me like she was being 100% serious.

Some people act sarcastic because it's hard to voice the depth of their feelings, and if the other partner actually wants them, presumably that other partner understands what's going on with the sarcasm.

To me Gwen and Thackeray were just acting like two soldiers who are more used to fighting wars than talking about their emotions.

Hyperventilate · Nov 21, 2010, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakita Snakecharm

To me Gwen and Thackeray were just acting like two soldiers who are more used to fighting wars than talking about their emotions.

Gwen was no soldier.

She was bitter, hateful, and too prideful to let anything go.

Also, Thackeray was great at talking about how he was feeling with Gwen. Doesn't fit into your "Soldier" role.

Gwen is just a sandy... well. Never mind. Thackeray deserves better.... Miku, anyone?

Anakita Snakecharm · Nov 21, 2010, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Also, regarding Miku-- I like her. I think she's a cool character.

Even so, I don't think she's right for Thackeray, or he for her.

The things that most attracted Thackeray to Miku were the qualities she shared with Gwen, not the things that were unique to Miku herself. The temptation Miku offered was an easy answer, a simple escape, but that's not necessarily what would actually be best for him.

I think Miku could do better than being a cheap replacement for Gwen. I think she could do better than a man who's still totally stuck on someone else.

Miku helped Thackeray learn some lessons about himself, but he barely even knows her. I think his return to Gwen was inevitable, and I think in the long run he would regret doing what would have basically amounted to running away from his problems rather than facing them.

Sytherek · Nov 21, 2010, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

I have to say that they have nailed a typical relationship theme in this story...

It may be "typical" in your world, but it certainly isn't healthy, or the norm, or even interesting when it's the only "romance" theme ANet seems to know.

I certainly wouldn't want someone like Gwen in charge of a military group! She's too emotional, too willing to risk people's lives for her personal agenda.

On the other hand, consider ANet's other "big" romance -- Stud Monk(ey) Mehnlo and Cynn the Insecure. Yuck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakita Snakecharm

Miku helped Thackeray learn some lessons about himself, but he barely even knows her. I think his return to Gwen was inevitable, and I think in the long run he would regret doing what would have basically amounted to running away from his problems rather than facing them.

Perhaps.

On the other hand, I can see Thackeray remembering Miku fondly, very time Gwen barks an order about his hair...

In 30 years of marriage, my wife hasn't ONCE told me how to wear my hair (back when I HAD hair) -- nor have I told her what to do with hers. I did ask her to die it purple once, and we had great laughs...

Gwen COULD have asked him nicely about the pony-tail -- instead, she framed it as a demand. Childish and selfish... not a good basis for a relationship.

Ailina · Nov 21, 2010, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Has anyone considered that Thackeray may just be into that?
We're all assuming that he's interested in a typical relationship where both partners share equal status.
For all we know, they could have some rather kinky (and consensual!) S&M potential brewing there.
Just saying.

awry · Nov 21, 2010, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Canthan fever. You could say Thackeray has caught it.

YEAAAH

Edit: but seriously, It's funny how people have changed from Thackeray doesn't deserve Gwen to the other way around so quickly. Sure Thackeray got some facial hair and let his hair down and now looks like a total stud...is manly enough to kill rotscale in a 2 man team... is responsible for financing 2 of my oppressor weapons... BUT BY GAWD, Gwen was there in presearing, when i was a total nub. She was one of the first npcs i met, one of the first heros I got and those memories of vqing tyrian zones with proph+eotn skills only with her aren't going to displace her in my heart for some beefcake with a one hit kill move.

Deviant Angel · Nov 21, 2010, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Why bother hooking up with a mesmer if you're not prepared for mind games and a little abuse? It's obviously his cup of tea... that or he's dumb as a brick and will spend many cold nights curled up on the sofa and crying himself to sleep.

WarcryOfTruth · Nov 21, 2010, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant Angel

Why bother hooking up with a mesmer if you're not prepared for mind games and a little abuse? It's obviously his cup of tea... that or he's dumb as a brick and will spend many cold nights curled up on the sofa and crying himself to sleep.

Or maybe now she can finally feel the need to watch a sunset, or run barefoot in the woods, or swim in a river. (See Gwen and Thackeray, Dialogue 2)

Adul · Nov 21, 2010, 09:24 AM // 09:24

I agree. I liked the Gwen who was in EotN and the BMP - hurt, angry, and through a lot of bad stuff. I cared for the character. There is a huge difference between that and the deranged maniac she is now. I like most of the War in Kryta and Hearts of the North writing, but I wish Gwen's psychotic behavior could be undone.

That said, I'm not completely unhappy with the new content, in fact I'm very grateful for the devs that they manage to throw new story our way every once in a while even though there are very few of them being assigned to GW1.

damkel · Nov 21, 2010, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by awry

Canthan fever...

Agreed. Miku was playful and flirtatious. Gwen is just indifferent towards Keiran at every turn. What's the divorce rate like in Tyria?

garethporlest18 · Nov 21, 2010, 12:26 PM // 12:26

The funny thing about all this is, Gwen is under Thackery's spell more so than he is under hers. Thus her attitude. She doesn't like not being in control, so has to substitute it where she can.

Aldric · Nov 21, 2010, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Gwen should die horribly for being the most irritating and annoying NPC in the entire game.

and chuckles at Roulette's alternate dialogue

drkn · Nov 21, 2010, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

BUT BY GAWD, Gwen was there in presearing, when i was a total nub. She was one of the first npcs i met, one of the first heros I got and those memories of vqing tyrian zones with proph+eotn skills only with her aren't going to displace her in my heart for some beefcake with a one hit kill move.

While i share your sentiment towards Gwen, i hate her as the in-game character she became. I played all the games in chronological order, but then, later, used Gwen as a hero a lot as well. I remember her dancing in that funny cape until she fell over. I like her story, but not her character.
It's not only limited to her attitude towards Thackeray for the whole time. I remember this cinematic to be the first moment when i started to dislike her, only to strengthen that feeling.

EPO Bot · Nov 21, 2010, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldric

Gwen should die horribly for being the most irritating and annoying NPC in the entire game.

and chuckles at Roulette's alternate dialogue

For some reason everyone forgets about Cynn.

Xiaquin · Nov 21, 2010, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Attraction doesn't follow any rules, and you can't fight it or make it happen on your own.

Miku is barely known, and while arguably "healthier" for him, ask yourself: Would I ever listen to someone who tells me, "X is bad for you, and I hate X anyway, you should date Y, because I approve!"?

Iuris · Nov 21, 2010, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Really annoying these threads.

How about the other side?

I loved Gwen when I first saw her. A nice, innocent child, one of the first NPCs you met on your own. She made me switch to "father" mode immediately, and I've always had a sweet spot for her. Every character made sure to help her get a new flute cape and all.

Seeing her in the Searing animation was the bit that drew in how bad the Searing was for the people. I was sure she had died, and sure made for extra motivation to kill Charr.

And then, years later, we get EotN.

I was so happy to see her when I started EotN. And so shocked to see what kind of girl she became. The BMP explained why she hates Charr so much (seeing co-captives eaten would leave psychic scars on anyone), and I was really worried about her. My general feeling was "What have you bastards done to my little girl!". Psychotic hatred of the Charr, keeping away from the rest of the Ebon Vanguard so as not to get attached and risk losing people she cares for...

And then, out of nowhere, comes Keiran. A determined young man, who not only was motivated to draw Gwen out of her shell, but who even had enough insight into Gwen's soul to actually make progress. And who seemed to actually realize this would not be an easy task and still had the patience to work on it.

I saw him for what he was - the best thing that had happened to Gwen in years. But the shut in Gwen was certainly not able to see this - would you really expect one in her psychic state to? She was certainly unsure, not wanting to open herself to pain again.

I was surprised when she rebuked him after the picnic invitation. I really was expecting to see her to accept from the earlier developments. "Oh, come on, Gwen, stop giving the poor guy such a hard time!"

I sure couldn't blame Keiran for volunteering to go aid the Krytans. And I didn't miss Gwen's crying when she left.

So, you know, not everyone sees the negative parts of Gwen as something that couldn't change.

Nekodesu · Nov 21, 2010, 04:18 PM // 16:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Well, to "chicks" it's the men who seem cooked in the head. It's called a lack of communication. But I have to say that they have nailed a typical relationship theme in this story. One side jumping ahead in leaps and bounds while the other side is still on step one. Reminds me of my late husband. He had told my whole family he was going to marry me before I had agreed to date him.

Agree to this. And Iuris Is making, well, honestly everything he has written above is how it should be seen... All the things he says about Gwen is NORMAL HUMAN physology and reactions to traumas...

It's all just a bunch of: OMG GWEN IS NOT LIEK I WANT HER TOO SHE MUST DIE IN HELL.

She isn't how you guys might want her but she is how a normal human being is, and would be after what she has gone trough. Gawd, this story isn't about a princess and a prince it's realistic and deep, it's drama, it's heroic. How they made Gwen in EoTN is how you all would be after being in war, having your mother killed, being enslaved, used as a pet for entertainment.

Gosh...

Elysea · Nov 21, 2010, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

Really annoying these threads.

How about the other side?

So, you know, not everyone sees the negative parts of Gwen as something that couldn't change.

You have an excellent point. On top of that, people seem to forget: Gwen's maybe nineteen by this point, and she's been through hell. She's certainly not going to react to love and affection the same way as a normal, well-adjusted woman would.

So much Gwen hate in here. Don't hate the character, hate the way she's been written. It's like they implanted Cynn's personality onto Gwen at the end of things.

ANet gave us Mhenlo and Cynn, Koss and Melonni, and now Keiran and Gwen. I think there's a pattern there on how they approach romances. >.>