Curse

Grim Lich · Mar 19, 2010, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Abaddon may be dead, but his forces are clearly still there. Jadoth still had all he power Abaddon gave him, and his Elite Margonite Armies still have a hold in DoA. Though you could imagin in 250 years the Order of Whispers have tracked down most of them, especially the Titans.

Konig Des Todes · Mar 19, 2010, 08:20 PM // 20:20

But after the death of Mallyx, all the powerful leaders are gone. And with Margonites not being able to reproduce, they're not going to be a threat. The Foundry of Failed Creations is taken over, so unless Titans are created elsewhere, then they won't be around again. Same goes for the Stygian demons. The Realm of Torment would, most likely, be under control shortly after Mallyx's death - considering that the realm is now Kormir's.

Demons are not only followers of Abaddon, so they will very much be around, as the Mists constantly creates them.

Vlad · Sep 15, 2010, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Faroth the Huntress

From the descriptions given to us on the Dragons, the Dragons are closely matched to the Gods. Which may form a plot in GW2.

Actualy they arent closely matched in fact i think the dragons overpower the gods. It says the dragons were around b4 the time of the gods.

Konig Des Todes · Sep 15, 2010, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Yes, the Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods... on Tyria. No clue if they predate the Six Gods (excluding, of course, Abaddon, Grenth, and Kormir - all having predecessors) in the grand scale of things.

For all we know, the (power/knowledge of the) Six Gods have been around for 10,000,000,000,000 years while the Elder Dragons only go back about 20,000 years.

SkyFallsInThunder · Jan 11, 2011, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Abaddon did not die. His essence was taken by Kormir. What died there and then was only a point of view.

Those of you who know your Sandman know what I am talking about...

Konig Des Todes · Jan 11, 2011, 07:45 PM // 19:45

It should be noted that Jeff Grubb has stated that Abaddon is dead.

PAX 2008 Q&A panel video. Starting @7:00

To take it out of context:

"We had to kill him"

Just Sai · Jan 11, 2011, 08:17 PM // 20:17

guys that bad never die, they just get uglier
but if he was dead, he wld be in the underworld somewhere, right?

draxynnic · Jan 12, 2011, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Not necessarily. There are other things that can happen to the spirit of a dead being then going to the Underworld - in fact, the Realm of Torment itself (where he was killed by the players) is itself a destination for the spirits of the dead. We see a few examples of souls that are eaten by demons in Nightfall, although these souls can be released intact if the demon that ate them is slain in time. A similar thing seems to have happened to Abaddon -instead of his spiritual energy going to become a ghost somewhere, it's been consumed by Kormir. Except that while in the cases of demons the souls generally appear to have been swallowed whole with their personalities intact, Kormir claims that Abaddon's has been broken, leaving only his power and knowledge.

The most likely scenario I can see for an Abaddon comeback is if something in his essence comes to corrupt Kormir... but even then, given that Abaddon himself replaced an earlier deity, that may not be a return of Abaddon so much as Kormir falling victim to the same thing that corrupted Abaddon in the first place.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 13, 2011, 01:50 AM // 01:50

If the Kodan are right, then there is reincarnation in the world. Which means Abaddon could be reborn - but as whatever he was previously.

Not a god since that doesn't seem to be a race, though.

draxynnic · Jan 13, 2011, 07:12 AM // 07:12

If the kodan are right. After all, we've been to the place where did people go, and it's certainly populated. On the other hand, it's not as populated as would be expected if everyone who ever died went back there.

This could mean that the underworld is essentially a "holding ground" for the spirits of the dead until they are ready for reincarnation - however, in this case there would still need to be a spirit to BE reincarnated, and this brings us back to Abaddon's fate as being consumed by Kormir. There's also the disparity between this and Dhuum's destruction of the spirits of the dead. Now, it's possible that the "final oblivion" is simply that the reincarnated soul keeps nothing from their past life, but it's hard to reconcile the picture presented of Dhuum as an unjust, all-consuming god of death with one that allows a cycle of reincarnation.

So, on the whole, either the kodan are wrong (at least when it came to souls that went to Dhuum), the reincarnation cycle didn't start until after Grenth took over (suggesting that either the pantheon is much older or the kodan much younger than most people think), or our image of Dhuum is wrong.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 14, 2011, 01:54 AM // 01:54

I was thinking it was more of a case of "when spirits die, they are reborn" - and I did say "if" the kodan were right.

Perhaps the reason why Dhuum needed to be taken out was because he prevented the cycle of reincarnation. Nothing says Dhuum is the original god of death, just the previous one, which if so could mean that while he reigned, reincarnation didn't continue, but before and after his reign, it did.

More than two mere options here, drax.

Spiritz · Jan 18, 2011, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Way i see it - kormir absorbed all the knollege etc of abbadon and going by the end cutscenes was to become the carrying vessel without the taint of abbadon.
Look at greek mythology where the gods themselves were able to reproduce and took over roles.Grenth took over dhuums job but dhuum himself wasnt able to be put to eternal rest ( or killed ) - the 5 gods didnt kill abbadon ( maybe for same reasons ) but imprisoned him ( like chronos in some mythology was banished to tatarus but not killed .
Terry pratchett did in his discworld novels have a small part in which "small gods" covered what would be the part where belief in a god played a major part - if the belief in a god dwindled the god became less powerful - ie small gods ( also in hogfather
).Maybe this happens in gw as even tho abbadons name was removed and hidden he still had worshippers who`s belief may have kept him going.The imprisoned margonites possibly kept abbadon going as they still believed in him except the err the one ive forgotten his name but he turned his back on the margonites and their belief in abbadon.
The dwarfs believe in the power of the great dwarf ( ogdens belief is questionable tho by his own actions ).
Didnt someone once say as long as theres 1 believer in something it may happen - or something along the lines .. its late and sleeps invading my mind lol.

Shady Guy - The greek Gods themselves wasnt meant to be human but were classed as human gods - egyptians seemed to have a diff opinion as their gods seemed part human and part animal but were also gods of humans ( well egyptians ).

draxynnic · Jan 21, 2011, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Heh. You're kind of repeating one of my old theories there actually, Shady. Balthazar and Lyssa both have familial relations (Menzies as Balthazar's brother, and Lyssa is a pair of twins) which implies some parents that came before, but Dwayna and Melandru could have just come out of nowhere. They also share a feature the others lack (wings) and have distinct airs of seniority to them.

The Pratchettian explanation might well serve both to explain why the gods were so determined to hide knowledge of Abaddon from Tyria as well as why he was relatively easy for us to destroy when the gods couldn't - before his fall Abaddon was at the height of the power of belief in him, but after his imprisonment and the scouring of knowledge of him, his power dwindled. It's be curious if the gods not only worked on Pratchettian rules, but that the number of followers in a given world mattered - so that a god with no followers in a given world would have no power in that world however fervent his, her or its following is elsewhere.

Heavenz · Jun 06, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quotes from developers and Olias have pretty much confirmed that Abaddon will not is dead and will not return. However, his spirit and knowledge live inside Kormir in the form of the...immortal essence she absorbed when becoming a God. He may corrupt her or the very mists in which she most likely resides.

I wonder how the Five Gods feel about this.

"Abaddon is dead. And I assure you, Grenth will not make the mistake that the other gods did. We will not hear from Abaddon again in this lifetime... or the next." - Olias

Im in SPAMADAN · Jun 08, 2011, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Who are you kidding? Abbadon is too good looking to be gone