Lately I have been having the following theory I would like to present:
(apologies if this has been mentioned before)
And yes this will contain major spoilers.
Abaddon, God of Secrets and Water. Responsible for the following features;
Through Razakel, he made Vizier Khilbron use the Lost Scrolls, hereby sinking Orr and turning the Vizier into an Undead Lich.
We could say that The Lost Scrolls harnessed the powers of Destruction.
Underneath Arah, Zhaitan was sleeping, the Undead Dragon.
Destruction, the school of Magic Necromancers follow. Necromancers who worship Grenth, God of Death.
Through the Titans, Abaddon made the Cauldron of Cataclysm known to the Charr. Which caused the Searing. Giant Crystals came from the Sky. Kralkatorrik and Glint are named as Crystal Dragons.
The Searing caused drought, and destroyed the land, causing Denial of the use of the land. Denial. The School of Magic Mesmers follow and the god Lyssa. It is even said that the Cauldron was powered by creatures long ago fallen asleep. The Brand Created by Kralky caused Denial again to those under it's influence.
Corrupting SHiro through the Fortune Teller. Main aim, freezing the Forest and Sea. Now Abaddon being the God of Water and Secrets might have known about 'the Deep Sea Dragon' and be possibly corrupted by it.
I would say Abaddon was harnessing the power of the Dragons to free himself.
The Foefire, caused by Magdear, lead to the Ghosts of Ascalon to be Agressive towards all Living things. Agression, another school of Magic, fire, used mainly by Elementalists. Primordus, associated with Fire.
Leaves Preservation,... the school of Magic for Monks and Guardians. Jormag the Dragon of Ice,..which preserves,... as seen by his minions who are covered in ice, preservering them, albeit ina twisted way.
I believe Magic, in its raw form is taken from the Dragons themselves and the Gods harnessed that power in structered for by instilling the Bloodstones with each element.
One could say the Gods are the ordered side of the same coin the Dragons are the Primordial side of.
Preservation, Denial, Agression and Destruction... Mesmer, Monk / Guardian, Elementalist and Necromancer, all staples to the Guild Wars World.
Last edited by courage; Sep 22, 2011 at 08:44 PM // 20:44..
Just need to fit Abadon and the Deep Sea Dragon into this.
The DSD's name is currently unknown, and Abadon is the god of secretes.
In all seriousness though, the theory doesn't hold up too well as the human gods are relatively new to the scene in comparison to how old the world of Tyria actually is. The world existed for several thousand years before the gods arrived and brought humans with them. While the connections could make sense if the timeline lined up, it sadly does not.
Also, too many factors go into the examples you gave to make sense in the long run.
e.g. the Cataclysm. You suggest the giant crystals are related to Kralkatorrik. But the crytals actually come from power that the Titans give the Charr. The Titans are servants of Abadon. Abadon also created the Undead Lich, thus meaning he has power over undeath. But Zhaitan is the dragon of undeath, not Kralkatorrik.
While this doesn't necessarily null your argument, it makes it a lot less likely.
Last edited by RedDog91; Sep 22, 2011 at 07:25 PM // 19:25..
You're reaching with some of this but some of it is interesting.
The one that stands out is Orr being the birth of the undead not once, but twice.
I think a more likely explanation is that The Lost Scrolls were linked to Zhaitan.
It's likely that Abbadon knew of the link, but felt it worth the risk of rousing the dragons to affect his release.
All the other points are really reaching. The similarities of the crystals unleashed in the searing to K's "brands" is uncanny, but the charr learned that from the titans. The titans were firmly locked in the Foundry of Failed Creations at this point...as far away from the dragons' influence as you can possibly get.
Wasnt there something said about glint - he/she isnt as old as the original elder dragons.
I cant recall where a discussion of glints origins ( or a slight mention) as it may have been on wiki or here on guru - or both.
On the subject of magic - wasnt it abbadon who before he became twisted on revenge etc - he was the one who gave us the ability to use magic and in doing so it led to his "banishment" and the creation of the bloodstones.And the magic that he brought to us was dimmed down to a less powerful magic.
Abbadon was working on his own agenda ( in a way hes actually hand a hand in prophs/factions/nightfall which we find out later in the storyline ) and the time when the dragons arise from their sleep its said the gods have almost left us.The dragons themselves are meant to predate the gods so the idea of abbadon using them doesnt sit right.
I dont think anet when they created gw actually planned ahead with gw lore so its plausable that anet is in the same boat as us - no one can actually give a correct lore and i doubt anet had the funds to hire a lore writer.So all we are left with is speculation with many lore aspects and trying to tie gw with gw2 is damn hard.
It would be nice tho if anet had someone to set the lore in stone
I dont think anet when they created gw actually planned ahead with gw lore so its plausable that anet is in the same boat as us - no one can actually give a correct lore and i doubt anet had the funds to hire a lore writer.So all we are left with is speculation with many lore aspects and trying to tie gw with gw2 is damn hard.
Actually, there's quite a few things in the GW universe that have been in the game since Prophecies that ANET has had "hidden" for future content. Their original business model was to make a campaign/expansion every 6 months, so its very likely that more things than we realize are sitting around waiting for ANET to give them a purpose that fits lore and can be made into content.
As for lore writers, Jeff Grubb and Ree Soesbee say "hi"
Okay, I'm going to break this down a lot as there's many disagreements. Due to the massive amount of separate quote tags, I'm putting it all in a spoiler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
Lately I have been having the following theory I would like to present:
Minor thing, but this is a hypothesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
Through Razakel, he made Vizier Khilbron use the Lost Scrolls, hereby sinking Orr and turning the Vizier into an Undead Lich.
We could say that The Lost Scrolls harnessed the powers of Destruction.
Underneath Arah, Zhaitan was sleeping, the Undead Dragon.
Destruction, the school of Magic Necromancers follow. Necromancers who worship Grenth, God of Death.
I fail to see what Necromancers do with the school of Destruction. Yes, the Lost Scrolls destroyed and Orr became filled with undead, but there's no connection to the Lost Scrolls and necromancy outside of the undead - the undead isn't even really stated to be the scroll's doing. I'll continue this into two points:
Firstly, on necromancy and their school of magic - as I said, nothing in them destroys. They reanimate, they damage or create benefits based on actions of others or themselves. In other words, their magic relies on action and action alone. Thus they fit Aggression best.
Secondly, on the Cataclysm and the undead - there is an indication via the Eye of the North dungeon Shards of Orr, specifically the quest dialogue indicating a vizier of Orr, that either Khilbron was around when that crew fled Elona - which was 1016 AE (54 years prior to the Searing). This indicates that Khilbron may have had heavy necrotic experience in the past. Furthermore, as said nothing indicates that the Cataclysm created the undead - it took a year between the Cataclysm and the undead's attack on Kryta, plenty of time for Khilbron to create an army.
Lastly, the Elder Dragons all seem to be able to corrupt physical matter (and two cases, at least, corrupting the mentality of beings). Zhaitan appears no different than the others, he just prefers corrupting dead bodies whereas others corrupt both living and dead (Jormag is explicitly stated to have created icebrood out of dead bodies).
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
Through the Titans, Abaddon made the Cauldron of Cataclysm known to the Charr. Which caused the Searing. Giant Crystals came from the Sky. Kralkatorrik and Glint are named as Crystal Dragons.
The Searing caused drought, and destroyed the land, causing Denial of the use of the land. Denial. The School of Magic Mesmers follow and the god Lyssa. It is even said that the Cauldron was powered by creatures long ago fallen asleep. The Brand Created by Kralky caused Denial again to those under it's influence.
Nothing says Abaddon "made" the Cauldron of Cataclysm - he simply had it given to the charr to use. I also fail to see how denial is linked to the Searing. When explosions occur, fire occurs and dust fills the air. I doubt that Ascalon was scorched immediately but rather was scorched via the fires and then dust (blocking the sunlight) having killed the plants. Why the water was replaced with tar is unknown, but probably due to the heat (if the tar was always there, hidden underground but was uncovered due to the impacts, then the heat could evaporate the water and tar fill in the place - alternatively, increased heat and pressure would hasten the production of tar from the bodies and thus produce more than what there would of been otherwise). This all points to destruction over denial, but really it's just the case of "fire makes things go bye bye."
Likewise, how does the Dragonbrand create denial? I fail to see how corruption and being twisted into crystalline creatures causes denial where the other cases do not. Kralkatorrik's power is only a physical form of Jormag's mental power (Jormag corrupts via the mind it seems, whereas Kralkatorrik corrupts via physical presence such as his breath and gaze).
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
Corrupting SHiro through the Fortune Teller. Main aim, freezing the Forest and Sea. Now Abaddon being the God of Water and Secrets might have known about 'the Deep Sea Dragon' and be possibly corrupted by it.
I would say Abaddon was harnessing the power of the Dragons to free himself.
Now how does this connect at all? Nothing, nothing, indicates that the DSD is in the Jade Sea - in fact, it's more likely to be in the Unending Ocean (evidence points to it but does not confirm such).
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
The Foefire, caused by Magdear, lead to the Ghosts of Ascalon to be Agressive towards all Living things. Agression, another school of Magic, fire, used mainly by Elementalists. Primordus, associated with Fire.
It has been said during the Ascalon Catacombs dungeon preview that Adelbern's hatred is the cause for the ghosts' changed mentality. Note that he's the only one who can be reasoned with as well.
Also, where the hell did you get that elementalists are linked to aggression? Other than the attribute of fire, I can't think of a single thing in the elementalist line of magic that is aggression, yet I can easily see how fire, earth, and ice (not necessarily water), and even air is linked to destruction. Likewise, I see no connection between Primordus and the Foefire or Aggression.
You are literally connecting dots on shared terms. The Foefire was a ghastly event, the fire is metaphorical of the fiery sword used. There is no connection between the Foefire and elementalists or Primordus - no connection between any of the three at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
Leaves Preservation,... the school of Magic for Monks and Guardians. Jormag the Dragon of Ice,..which preserves,... as seen by his minions who are covered in ice, preservering them, albeit ina twisted way.
I'm sorry but what about Jormag is preserving? Ice? Ooh, yes, earth also preserves; or just the lack of air all together.
Also, as mentioned previously, Jormag may use ice, but he corrupts via the mind. He is far closer to mesmers than any other Elder Dragon, which is denial.
The Elder Dragons show no connection to any of the school of magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by courage
I believe Magic, in its raw form is taken from the Dragons themselves and the Gods harnessed that power in structered for by instilling the Bloodstones with each element.
And to this you have proven literally no firm evidence of.
Not to mention that there are four schools of magic yet five Elder Dragons.
You do however have some foreground that you completely overlooked regarding the gods taking power from the/a Elder Dragon(s).
You also completely ignored the fact that the bloodstones were created after magic was given to the races of the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritz
Wasnt there something said about glint - he/she isnt as old as the original elder dragons.
I cant recall where a discussion of glints origins ( or a slight mention) as it may have been on wiki or here on guru - or both.
Glint was created by Kralkatorrik - it wasn't stated that she was as old as them though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiritz
It would be nice tho if anet had someone to set the lore in stone
They have had two since Nightfall.
Yes, less of "in stone" and "no retconning or contradicting."