Curse

Vicha · Sep 12, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Hi everyone,

I was reading the other thread about how mesmers, and how this profession is misunderstood.

Well, for some reason, I think that the Monk profession is well over appreciated. Yesterday, I was forming a group just for the fun of farming near Sorrow's Furnace entrance. It did not really matter who, or what profession would join. I know, for having played with all the combinations, that any group can work out pretty well. Sometimes it works well, sometimes it does not. But there was this guy shouting "Group looking for monk", We need a monk, going to farm, monk needed. I asked "What is your obsession with monk?" "Cause he can f*** heal us, that's why" BAM, he was gone (for his bad attitude)

Do you guys know that a good Well of Power from a necro can do marvel?
Do you guys know that a good ranger with Melandru's resilience and some Troll ungent does not need a Monk?
Do you guys know that a necro, a mesmer, can heal himself with different skills, that a warrior can automatically gain +300 hp with Endure pain?

I am a bit tired of this obsession of asking for monks. I have nothing against this profession, it can be fun. But to be honnest, I have more fun going on a quest with necros, mesmers, elemantalist and rangers, esp. trappers.

Whenever i form a group, it is my new objective: going out there without any monk. And you know what? It is a lot of fun.

Catalin Dracul · Sep 12, 2005, 04:09 PM // 16:09

I agree but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicha

that a warrior can automatically gain +300 hp with Endure pain?

and then they automaticly loose it after the set amount of time and (generally) die

Wyrda Thrysta · Sep 12, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

There's a "monk fetiche" in the game....
Usually they dont even want to pay the entrance to FoW or UW...

"I'm a monk!!! I dont pay!!!"

Just a note, many of them make a monk just because of that and dont even know how to play with him...

I have nothing against monks... I have one... but there's a "monk obsession"...

wiz12268 · Sep 12, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

IMO the best builds are the hex breaker mesmers, and smight hex monks. Then I would say the well driven necros, and the minion master necros. Then if you have a group that stays, the ER Elemental build, sure they lose some enchants on some players but if they have enough running and a full team there will be plenty of others that hold the enchats. But you need time to build up all the enchants. But if they can run it and keep it up major difference, especially in conjunction with mions taking the hexes from mesmer monsters.

Healing monks can basically only do one think, heal, and with all the draining spells and bleeding they are going to run ot of energy pretty quick. So they are slightly overrated. But they are necessary for sure.

I won't switch to heal, I stay pro/smite with just one heal monk you can run an experienced 5 man team all the way thru with no deaths at all. If you have a minion master you only need a warrior, him, a smite monk or hex breaking mesmer, and a healing monk, and you can run all the way thru if you are careful and pull enemies.

Had a team with that make up the other night, well we had 2 warrios but one dropped, but we ran thru everything took awhile, but we killed all the enemies everywhere. Having 12-15 minions is a major advantage obviously. They attack catsers while the warrior aggros the rangers and cleavers, throw up SOJ and wham. Even with the new AI, they will keep attacking if they don't find a new target.

Is just like anything else. Once you know what to expect is easy to counter it. Obviously the first few times, the "normal" skill bars were basically useless. Butyou adapt and learn what you need.

Mesmers and necs are definately 2 classes that can own there. But you still need some monks to help whether they heal directly of indirectly.

dreamcrafter · Sep 12, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

The last couple of times I played GW, my party would allways take the 2 hench monks to fill the last positions instead of waiting 10 minutes and spamming "GLF MONK", hoping that someone would heed our calls.

Worked pretty well.

Anyway, I have nothing against monks andallways like to have one around, but they are overrated.

/signed

sixdartbart · Sep 12, 2005, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catalin Dracul

I agree but... and then they automaticly loose it after the set amount of time and (generally) die

and that would be considered a really dumb warrior that does not know how or why to use endure pain. mostly it is for emergencies or to stay in the fight just long enough to kill the beastie then you must realize that it will end and either heal yourself or count on the wonderful well spamming necro that you brought to help you out. while most of my freinds in game happen to be monks I prefer a good blood necro anyday.

Nazutul · Sep 12, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Overrated? Think about it this way. Monk is the only class capable of healing the entire party, and therefore an indispensible member of any party.

Monk seems overrated in this game because unlike other MMO's it is the only class capable of healing others. If you don't have a monk in GW, then your party's survivability goes down drastically. In EQ, if you can't find a cleric, you could just grab 2 druids, 2 shamen, or one of each and probably be fine. But in GW, you have to have a monk. Simple as that.

However, as important as monks may be, this does not give monks license to be unruly and an "asshole" in general. But, this is somewhat unconrollable.

Vicha · Sep 12, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazutul

But in GW, you have to have a monk. Simple as that.

No. You are wrong. I have done many quests without monks, and will do a lot more without any. I am tired of monks, so tired that I deleted my other monk character and will never make another one.

Valerius · Sep 12, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

sure... u can do stuff without Monks... but quests/missions are a lot easier with em'

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Sep 12, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

It is entirely based on where you are as to what the best build is. In an area full of undead a necro with well of power is useless and a smiting monk will do more damage than an ele! By the time you get the first aratax (minataur in UW) down, a well would be too late, a ranger can't heal others, and endure pain is good for one hit around them!

In general a monk of some kind is needed whether it be for healing or protection. My monk does both and I leave hex removal for a Mesmer because a monk hex removal takes too long to reload. I generally cast healing seed on the warrior before he/she agros, then mark of protection, followed by some reversal of fortune or mend ailment. I keep heal party for time when we get "stomped" or other group damage. If a particular person takes some death penality I throw on mending in hopes of slowing down their life drain till they loose some of that dp.

FrogDevourer · Sep 12, 2005, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Monks are safety nets. They cover your mistakes. The worst your group is, the more monks you'll need. You can play most missions/quests without a monk if the group has some self healing & debuff. However, to complete the toughest quests of SF without at least one monk, you actually need to be very skilled. I'd be curious to see screenshots of your monk-less group (and the quest reward window showing which quest you completed).

Cobalt · Sep 12, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

People really need to wean themselves of having to have a monk there are just not enough of them to go around. Since the monk got nerfed the monk the population has dwindled down to about a 1/3 maybe less of what it was.

Not only that but I have a monk I can tell you it is NOT fun playing a monk, to many people blame the Monk when the party fails and the one who scream the loudest are usually the ones with weakass armor, several sup rune on them, or continually rush ahead out of healing range as such die often or eat up 90% of the heal casts causing others to die.

I got so sick of it about the only time I use him any more is when I want to go in FOW or UW and no not to try and “go for free”, but because I don’t want to wait forever to get in a group like I would with my Warrior. I will also use my Monk to help out guild if the ever needed but that is about it.

sidepocket13 · Sep 12, 2005, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Not only that but I have a monk I can tell you it is NOT fun playing a monk,

i disagree, i love playing my monk. i dont care if people blame me when we faile or cry that i am not fast enough..... its a game and its them that isnt having any fun during their little rants, not me.

KallDrexx · Sep 12, 2005, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nazutul

Monk seems overrated in this game because unlike other MMO's it is the only class capable of healing others. If you don't have a monk in GW, then your party's survivability goes down drastically. In EQ, if you can't find a cleric, you could just grab 2 druids, 2 shamen, or one of each and probably be fine. But in GW, you have to have a monk. Simple as that.

I concur and I really hope that the proffession that gets added in Chapter 2 has decent heal other capabilities. While you CAN do the game without monks it is very hard to do quests that require you to keep an NPC alive (wells only go so far and NPCs aren't the smartest, especially while fighting) and it is just very hard to keep yourself alive in hard battles.

Yes every class has self-healing abilities, but they aren't real efficient. Necro probably comes in the best with Well of Power and whatnot but still you need a corpse before the health regen can even start and even then a lot of monsters want to run around which means it's too easy for melee to get out of the well..

All Mesmers have are Ether feast, which at about 13-14 inspiration gives about 100 health back. IT also takes 2 seconds to cast and you can't cast it for another 8 seconds after that. Therefore thats 100 health every 10 seconds (not taking FC into account). Not to mention that those 2 seconds you use to heal yourself you could use to kill the monster faster. EF can help keep you alive longer but it can't replace an actual healer, especially for how fast damage is dealt in SF.

Elementalists can heal themselves wtih Aura of Restoration, but a lot of mobs like to shatter enchant things off people, thus making aura of Restoration more dangerous then it helps, plus the cost of having to recast it. Also a lot of high cost spells have a decent cast time, meaning your going to have about the same amount healed over time as Ether feast, only its going to cost you a lot more mana to keep your health high (ether feast is only 5 energy).

The list goes on (like with rangers and troll ungent) but none of these methods are by any means efficient for healing ot keeping yourself alife, let alone your groupmates. It takes a lot of skill to play the game without monks in your gorup (including henchies) and there are times where its not enough because you can't efficiently heal others (let me see you do thunderhead keep without any monks).

I wish healing was more spread out so that you could literally group with anyone regardless of class. We can almost do this now except for healing. It's annoying even in PvP where for MOST builds you need at least 2 healers and it's alwasy good to have another monk for prot.

Ventius Hozza · Sep 12, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Not only that but I have a monk I can tell you it is NOT fun playing a monk

Im not sure if anyone here remembers my little rant a few weeks ago about the game getting tiring, well becoming a monk was one of the key factors in keeping me in the game. Its just so fun. I can get a group as fast as i want its actualy quite funny, just to go into Abaddon's Mouth and shout "Healing Monk LFG" and seeing how many invites pop up. Other than that, I just love the idea of being the one to possibly save someones life and it makes it even better when you get comments such as "Great healing, Monk" it just makes my day. Its a great class and i can assure you, a VERY FUN one to play.

dansamy · Sep 12, 2005, 07:21 PM // 19:21

I play a monk who is now permanently switched to protection. I just ran the Life Bond/Signet prot for the Orozar quest. Prior to this, I had tried running that quest with Aegis, Prot Spirit, etc. I don't know if it was my group or the change in prot that I used, but this time we had VERY little trouble with Orozar.

Kampfkeks · Sep 12, 2005, 07:26 PM // 19:26

A good healing monk won't run out of energy so fast. In fact he can go on for several minutes until a point is reached were the uphill battle is just bound to be lost as it takes far too long. But take the normal easy mission like Thunderhead and stuff for example. You really see the good and the bad monks there.
The bad ones constantly are down to like 3 energy and need a lot of time to recharge it after a battle The good monks are capable of keeping up, completing the whole mission without the need of stopping once.

You're right, you don't need monks for every mission and quests and you NEVER need more than 2 in PVE, no matter where you go. Under the one single condition they are good at what they do though, and i've got to say... most are not. They are just dropdead lousy.
I'm playing a monk myself and i basically can just judge by my experiences and those i've heard from others, but... when a monk starts playing he is building himself a reputation and a specific friendlist with who is decent or who is fun to play with. This doesn't take any longer than up to the desert and by then - the good and friendly ones stop playing with PUGs alltogether and only party with their Guild or Friendlist. What is left is the bad lot of monks (mostly) and those are what is giving the class a bad name and reputation. And their poor healing and social skills are what makes people think you would need more than 2 monks in any area.
I kinda feel guilty for that scenario to a slight degree. After all i could just start partying with PUGs again and show some advanced monking. Just like all the others who have gone private with their monking. That would at least make room for some of the less popular classes. But let's be honest, that just won't happen. No way i'm ever enduring the endless hate, even if everyone survived and never dropped below 50 % health. It is just like, everyone loves to hate the monks and they are constantly bitching about them.
Unless THIS will globally change, you won't see any decent monks around. I had to stop PUGing or else i'd just delete my monk and guildwars alltogether as the GW "Community" surely shows its true face when it comes to monks.

Sadly, this will never change and so we have this constant cycle of bitching against the monks, the frustration to mostly need a few of them on your team while they simply refuse to team with you, and the resulting constant nerf whines to get back at the monks. The monks will defend against the nerf whines and so starts the bitching again.

Esprit · Sep 12, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

I always take a Necro with me, because Well of Power is a very nice to skill to have during a battle.

Sorrow's is similar to most of the other parts of the game, wanting monks, it will never change.

Blue Steel · Sep 12, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Monks are safety nets. They cover your mistakes. The worst your group is, the more monks you'll need.

Exactly right. You can tell how bad a team member in a PUG is going to be by how vocally they insist on having a monk in the group. A good player, upon joining your group, will say: "Hey, we might want to pick up a monk or two, or possibly consider taking the hench monks for this one." The bad player will say: "Hey, you HAVE to have 3 MONKS. I won't even stay another second unless you get 2 MONKS in this group RIGHT NOW. and they HAVE TO BE REAL PLAYERS NOT HENCHMEN."

It is uncanny how vocally the worst player in the group always insists on monks to cover his mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

You can play most missions/quests without a monk if the group has some self healing & debuff. However, to complete the toughest quests of SF without at least one monk, you actually need to be very skilled. I'd be curious to see screenshots of your monk-less group (and the quest reward window showing which quest you completed).

I beat the final assault/heart of the furnance mission (the one with 3 simultaneous Djinn) with a team of only 6 and only one of the six was a monk. Our other monk dropped early on because he "didn't have enough help monking." We had two great necros and went on to win it. Tell the team to equip some extra defensive and self-healing stuff, take a few necros, or try the henchmen out - it's better than waiting for an hour for monks to join.

Cobalt · Sep 12, 2005, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

I play a monk who is now permanently switched to protection. I just ran the Life Bond/Signet prot for the Orozar quest. Prior to this, I had tried running that quest with Aegis, Prot Spirit, etc. I don't know if it was my group or the change in prot that I used, but this time we had VERY little trouble with Orozar.

I think the group and their, builds, expertise, types of runes and armor has a lot to do with it. I have been with some that with 2 healing monks casting like mad could not keep them alive on the first mob and been with others that don’t need much healing at all.

I monked for some French Canadian clan in the Fissure not to long ago, they were so fast and taking out enemy, used some self healing and wards on them selves that had I not brought Banish to give me something to cast I would have been board due to lack of anyone to heal. I wish it was always like that then monking would be pure gravy.