Curse

Rossaroni · Sep 17, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

So, everyone might tell you that whenever you're monking in SF, you shouldn't bring any enchantments, because there are mesmers.

Well, tell everyone to go aggro a group of titans or something.

To understand what you must do to monk well in SF, you have to first understand what you're going up against. You're gonna see lots of hexes, lots of conditions, and a small amount of enchantment removal. So, what this means is that you need a build that can either a) remove a whole whole bunch of hexes, b) remove a lot of conditions, c) heal/protect without relying on enchantments, or d) do all of these.

First of all, the a choice is just silly, because mass hex removal requires too dedicated a build to be useful all the time. When you do come up against hexes, either it's going to be a single mesmer with conjure phantasm and maybe another hex, or it's going to be three or four casters throwing hexes around like bread to a Roman mob. In leyman's terms: dedicated hex removal isn't efficent. It's better to just counter the actual effects of the hexes, which can be done easily with a skill or two, while those two skills will still find use outside of hex countering. I'll get to specific skills in a second.

Condition removal, however, is a great thing to have. Poison, bleeding, blindness and weakness are all things that could really really hurt your group. So, in short, have a monk or two bring a single condition removing spell.

The enchantment removal in SF isn't really all that widespread. In fact, the most mesmers I can imagine a group fighting is 3 at once, and in that case you'll probably kill them fast enough to avoid taking too much damage. So really, all you have to worry about is a single enchantment getting removed, and if you have a prot monk who uses enchantments like a madman, one less enchantment every 20 seconds (I think) isn't going to make or break a battle. In the big picture, though, you won't always be up against mesmers. Simply put, enchantments are your friend.

Now, onto specifics.

There is a boss named Wroth Yakslapper. He drops a really really good monk staff that you should have if you're going to put together a stellar monk. Even if you're putting together a healing build, The Yakslapper is your best friend. +15 energy, +20% enchantments...that's enough for me.

What I'm going to do now is just explain my two favorite builds, one healing, one protection. Both are enchantment-heavy, because it is my philosophy that if you can stretch out these enchantments and place them in the right spots, you can do the least amount of work possible, and when a monk doesn't have to work, the rest of the party can really do their thing.

Healer Build:

Healing Prayers: 12 + hat + major/superior rune (I prefer majors because they're so much cheaper) = 15-16 (so, I'll be using 15 att as my example)
Divine Favor: 12 + major = 14

Orison of Healing
Dwanya's Kiss
Healing Breeze
Healing Touch
Healing Seed
Healing Hands {E}
Blessed Aura
Resurrection Signet

If you're using the Yakslapper, you're going to get huge numbers on your enchantments. Breeze, Seed, and Hands will all last around 16 seconds, which means that a) Seed and Hands will only have 9 seconds of downtime if they aren't shattered, and b) Breeze will heal for around 280 over the full duration--that's huge, around 29 hp per point of energy. Breeze is your bread and butter, and if you get a single target with lots of pressure on him, Stack seed, hands, and breeze. If the healing is still being outdamaged, you have Dwanya's Kiss, which will heal for 120 + another 20 for each hex on the target. That is also huge. With Blessed Aura running, you'll be down one pip of regen, but if you're smart with seed and hands, it won't be a problem.

As to seed and hands: You should always throw seed on the first target into battle as soon as 2-3 enemies lock onto him. Hands is sort of your wild card which you can throw on anyone who needs it while seed is recharging. Seed and hands are really your two big bread and butter spells for this build, because all you have to do is throw them on the targets being damaged, and then sit back and watch closely. If their health is still dropping, it'll be going down at a much slower rate, so you can really time your Dwanya's Kiss.

Healing Breeze is a great spell, because it counters degen in a huge way. Conjure Phantasm + poison is a combination you'll see in SF, and breeze can nearly outheal both. That's huge. HUGE. However, try to use breeze as sparingly as possible, because if you've only got around 50 energy, you can go thru it very very fast while spamming breezes. Only use it as a way to top off enchantment stacks.

Obviously, Dwanya's Kiss is the third active aspect of this build that you really should utilize as much as possible. Since you'll see a lot of enchantments and hexes, Kiss can be used for great things. I've healed a single target for 180 from the Kiss bonus alone. HUUUUUUUUUUUUMONGOLOID!

Onto a protection build:

Protection Prayers: 12 + hat + major/superior = 15
Divine Favor: 12 + minor/major = 13 (I like the extra health in this case over the added healing--this is prot, not healing.)

Reversal of Fortune
Guardian
Restore Condition {E}
Shielding Hands
Aegis
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Blessed Aura
Resurrection Signet

This build is fairly straightfoward as to its uses. Throw up blessed aura, then use GLE with Aegis. If a target is under pressure, use Guardian. If you notice elementalists on the other side, be quick on reversal, because they use stoning and obsidian flame, both of which deal 100+ damage. They can do some huge spikes.

Shielding hands is nice to stack on anyone with a whole lot of pressure, but it's mostly a marginal spell, and if you have a personal preference to something else, it can be dropped. The main reason I say this is because rangers in SF use Melandru's Arrows, which does added damage to targets with enchantments on them, and the added damage outweighs the damage reduced from shielding hands. So, in other words, the spell is best used to counter warrior damage. You might thinking about subbing in Protective Spirit--I personally don't like the spell much because you find that enemies in SF tend to switch targets at annoying times. Really, though, there aren't many other prot spells to take, so I just take this one.

This target switching is why I like Guardian, Reversal, and Aegis. Aegis is a blanket 50%, Guardian is 8 seconds with the +20+33% to enchantments (remember the Yakslapper?), and reversal is just great in general, because you do come up against spike damage from cleave (warriors), melandru's arrows (rangers), and obsidian flame (elementalists). The trick is to just be fast on the spells whenever you see a target take the beginnings of a spike. The good thing is, though, is that spikes are spottable here. Usually a target will get 2-3 enemies doing regular attacks on him before the actual spikes occur, and whenever a target gets hit two or three times in fast succession, you should always prot them with reversal, followed by guardian, followed by another reversal. It's 15 energy, but usually that is enough to negate the spike. (If your group doesn't kill the enemies fast enough, and you end up having to deal with two spikes, then your damage dealers aren't doing their jobs, and that's an entirely different thread.)

Now, on to Restore Condition. A lot of you are probably scratching your heads, thinking WTF. Well, to put it bluntly, there really isn't another elite that will benefit you like RC does. Peace and Harmony is the only other elite that will actually accentuate this whole build, and if you just don't want to use RC, then swap it out for P&H and then good luck fitting in Mend Ailment or Mend Condition. But with RC, you're taking care of conditions and getting a nice chunk of healing in one swoop. The downside: you're a prot monk, not a healer. Well, just communicate with your healer. Let him know that you have RC, and that if someone has a condition, you're going to let them dwindle a bit before healing, so the healer will know not to worry about conditions at all. Also, usually if a target is under pressure, they'll be bleeding or poisoned, so the healing from RC will really help combat all the damage being dealt.

What I really wish I could do with this build is use Glyph of Energy and Shield of Deflection, but alas. GE would mean a 5-energy Aegis every 30 seconds, and a 5-energy SoD every 30. With that, you wouldn't really need Guardian.

The only other skill that I can think of that fits with this build is Spell Breaker, but really, who needs that in SF? It's too clunky for protecting 8 people from enemies who make a point of switching targets. You could bring Aura of Faith if you still despise RC...

One last thing about this prot build: if you find your teams always short on healing, drop Blessed Aura for Divine Boon, and use guardian and reversal as your main two spells. Just be sure to watch your energy. You could consider going Mo/Me instead of Mo/E, dropping Restore Condition for Energy Drain, then dropping shielding hands for mend ailment, and picking up drain enchantment. It'd look like this:

Protection Prayers - 11 + 1 + 2
Divine Favor - whatever else you have (too lazy for math now)
Inspiration Magic - 10

Reversal
Guardian
Aegis
Mend Ailment
Energy Drain
Drain Enchantment
Divine Boon
Resurrection Signet

Finally, as to Resurrection Signet: all monks should only carry this. Why? Monks should not stop for 8 seconds in the middle of a battle to resurrect someone. Rez sig is much better, and it brings them back with FULL HEALTH. Big stuff there. Let someone else with a monk secondary bring rebirth or restore condition.

NEVER. USE. REBIRTH. IN. BATTLE. EVER!

End.

[Edit: Whenever your group is facing the Firey Djinns, don't use enchantments. Just use your regular heals, and surround it. That's the only exception I can think of.]

Charcoal Ann · Sep 17, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

i usually bring heal other but am going to drop it an fill by bar with 5energy heal spells (orison, word of healing, Dwaynas kiss etc) word of healing packs a serious punch when used on someone below half health.

also. breeze, seed, hands and blessed aura are all enchants and i have had all of them shattered in battle. what a waste of energy.

if you are going to use seed and hands make sure you put an instant cast enchantment on them on top. so that you don't lose the hands/seed.

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 17, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

My build rarely combats hexes since there are too many. If we have more than two monks in the group, i will take a condition removal spell.
I try to focus my build around damage prevention using enchantments and i have a fair amount of success with it.

Res signet
Rebirth (Substituted for guardian if killing bosses is the agenda)
Aegis
Signet of devotion (106 heal)
Shielding hands (somtimes substituted for mend condition)
Protective spirit
Reversal of fortune
Shield of regeneration

Mithroch · Sep 17, 2005, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossaroni

or it's going to be three or four casters throwing hexes around like bread to a Roman mob.

LOL.... that made my day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossaroni

NEVER. USE. REBIRTH. IN. BATTLE. EVER!

I couldn't agree more. I get so tired of moron healers that use this while the fight is raging. Usually ends up getting the party killed as the monk loses all energy and the person they bring back is useless until skills restore. Res Sig... or if you have a second healer with you, you can probably get off a Restore Life.

Cobalt · Sep 17, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

One I use that you did not list in your builds that I find essential is Smite Hex,
I would rather hit someone with that once than 3-4 heal casts till the hex expires.

Luggage · Sep 17, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

One I use that you did not list in your builds that I find essential is Smite Hex,
I would rather hit someone with that once than 3-4 heal casts till the hex expires.

This means that you dont have a mesmer with 16 dom to echo shatter hex in your group?

Rossaroni · Sep 17, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

i usually bring heal other but am going to drop it an fill by bar with 5energy heal spells (orison, word of healing, Dwaynas kiss etc) word of healing packs a serious punch when used on someone below half health.

also. breeze, seed, hands and blessed aura are all enchants and i have had all of them shattered in battle. what a waste of energy.

if you are going to use seed and hands make sure you put an instant cast enchantment on them on top. so that you don't lose the hands/seed.

Word of Healing is bugged a bit, actually. The way it works goes something like this:

Target gets DF heal bonus (around 40-50)
Target gets first part of healing
Target's hp is checked
If hp < 50% of total, then target gets the second healing chunk.

The hp check might happen before the first part of the healing spell, but even so that means you're actually only getting the bonus when your target is closer to 33% health. I don't like word of healing much.

As to the enchantment shattering...if you're getting enchantments shattered, put them back up. Blessed Aura shattered? Throw it up again. It's 10 energy, and if a single 10 energy spell breaks you, well, you were broken before the enchantment got shattered. As a prot monk, it's a rare occasion to drop below 20 energy. Normally it's around the 40 mark, regardless of what's going on. Same with healing, only it's usually 35, because of my armor.

Tactical, I used to run Signet of Devotion on my healer build, but I found that Rust really got annoying, and with a 2-second cast, it wasn't really making all that much of a difference. I always try to be on top of healing, so that means I don't have 2 seconds to do a 90+ hp heal, even if it's free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

One I use that you did not list in your builds that I find essential is Smite Hex,
I would rather hit someone with that once than 3-4 heal casts till the hex expires.

If you're going to bring hex removal, bring Remove Hex. It's got half the cooldown, which means 2x the hex removal. And it doesn't take 3-4 heals to counter a hex's effect. Just use breeze for conjure phantasm, and you'll end up healing for another 6+ seconds after the hex ends.

Cobalt · Sep 17, 2005, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luggage

This means that you dont have a mesmer with 16 dom to echo shatter hex in your group?

Not to many of them and if there is one and you are in pub group getting them to take the mes is like pulling teeth most of the time.

Quote:

If you're going to bring hex removal, bring Remove Hex. It's got half the cooldown, which means 2x the hex removal. And it doesn't take 3-4 heals to counter a hex's effect. Just use breeze for conjure phantasm, and you'll end up healing for another 6+ seconds after the hex ends.

I like smite hex because it can cause a litte damage but you are right hex removal is better due to its faster recharge speed.

Charcoal Ann · Sep 17, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rossaroni

Word of Healing is bugged a bit, actually. The way it works goes something like this:

Target gets DF heal bonus (around 40-50)
Target gets first part of healing
Target's hp is checked
If hp < 50% of total, then target gets the second healing chunk.

The hp check might happen before the first part of the healing spell, but even so that means you're actually only getting the bonus when your target is closer to 33% health. I don't like word of healing much.

As to the enchantment shattering...if you're getting enchantments shattered, put them back up. Blessed Aura shattered? Throw it up again. It's 10 energy, and if a single 10 energy spell breaks you, well, you were broken before the enchantment got shattered. As a prot monk, it's a rare occasion to drop below 20 energy. Normally it's around the 40 mark, regardless of what's going on. Same with healing, only it's usually 35, because of my armor.

Tactical, I used to run Signet of Devotion on my healer build, but I found that Rust really got annoying, and with a 2-second cast, it wasn't really making all that much of a difference. I always try to be on top of healing, so that means I don't have 2 seconds to do a 90+ hp heal, even if it's free.

If you're going to bring hex removal, bring Remove Hex. It's got half the cooldown, which means 2x the hex removal. And it doesn't take 3-4 heals to counter a hex's effect. Just use breeze for conjure phantasm, and you'll end up healing for another 6+ seconds after the hex ends.

i think that they fixed the Word Of Healing problem. read it somewhere. and for the enchantment shattering. that 10 energy you have to spend to put aura back up again could be put to better use elsewhere.

i used to use sig of devotion too but now i have dropped heal other i am never that short of energy.

i am intrigued as to how many monks there are on average on your teams. i have been a lone monk on a team of 7 in SF. i was always hovering around 10 energy. you use word if they are below half. you use kiss if word is recharging or they have lots of hexes on them and you use orison if both are recharging. only one death due to lack of healing (3 more caused by the golem crushers: P) breeze i use as a buffer to stop seed from being shattered.

KaPe · Sep 18, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

I don't use signet, it's too slow. And if I want big healing, I get Heal Other and Heal Party - fairly expensive, but if you don't try to spam them, it will work. I do use Enchants - I mean, there are *that* many mesmers and they just shatter first thing they see, so it goes on reversal or something(Lina ^^), and than I can use breeze normally. I had some problems with Seed, it mostly works, but it gets annoying if you cast it and target gets hit just once or twice and another one takes the beating. Wasted energy.

Oh yeah, and if you're single monk - better make sure there's necro with +energy regen

Otherwise, healing becomes *bit* difficult.

Edit: Not to mention Heal Party is very good for countering these damn wells.

Tijger · Sep 18, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithroch

LOL.... that made my day.

I couldn't agree more. I get so tired of moron healers that use this while the fight is raging. Usually ends up getting the party killed as the monk loses all energy and the person they bring back is useless until skills restore. Res Sig... or if you have a second healer with you, you can probably get off a Restore Life.

Same here, I keep saying it but its like I'm talking to a brick wall.

"I've got 1 million Xp, I know what I'm doing, you n00b!"..right, which explains why you just wiped out any chance of me or you healing anyone for the next 10 - 30 seconds while the skills recharge and your energy recovers enough to be effective.

OT: I pretty much use the same build as the TS does except I tend the two builds since I've frequently been the only monk or the only one left after someone leaves.

Rahl · Sep 19, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

My Sorrows Build skills are like this:

Breeze
Orision
Word
Healing Seed
Vig Spirit
Smite Hex
Mend Ailment
Rebirth

But that's if I'm in a 2 Warrior farming party :P

If in a big party, I take Heal Party instead if Vig Spirit, as well I might take out Seed if I need it for some other heal, but I usually keep it around.

Works great most of the time... and I've found that I'm not that effective with 2 Sups on, only 1 :P

dansamy · Sep 19, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

2 words that keep my farming parties alive: Life Bond. I rarely find it getting stripped for some reason.

lg5000 · Sep 19, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

I might not have been watching too much, but.. there aren't too many things removing enchantments from memory.

My current build includes archane echo and healing seed (both which I used since Iron Mines) which just saves me a lot of energy during battle, even though the cost to start that off is horrendous, and word of healing. Tried replacing that with Dawyna's Kiss, but second time round, decided to just take both as Dawyna's isn't doing enough healing.

Also, people know up front that I'm taking rebirth and that I don't intend on rezzing anyone unless i'm the last one with rez standing.

Smite hex makes it onto my skill bar if I'm protection monk. Hexes are not as much a problem as life bars going green, and with neither smite hex nor remove hex recharging fast enough, I might as well take something which does some damage, and hope that our mesmer has shatter hex on him/her.

Oh, and I don't go there without a mesmer on the team, personal preference, which, as monk, I can have

vvh · Sep 19, 2005, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Divine boon is a must for a healing monk. Bringing condition removal spell is not that helpful since those rangers bleed you every other second. In SF/Grenth, when every single one of your teammate is hexed/conditioned to max degen, hex removal or condition removal simply wouldn't help as much as a quick heal from divine boon/dwayna's kiss/divine favor with maxed out healing prayer/divine favor.

I usually play prot monk in SF/Grenth's. It's really not that difficult to maintain your enchaments even in the presence of mesmer. And I usually maintain 7 enchanments. Mesmer in SF/Grenth can only remove 1 enchanment at a time and it's really no big deal to recast it again. Just make sure your best enchament is the first one to cast.

lg5000 · Sep 19, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Divine boon is both good and bad. The -1 energy regen is bad, very bad, for a healer. However, the added bonus you get with it makes it ideal for a short period of time. Took me till quite late in the game to stop bringing it along.

Rahl · Sep 19, 2005, 03:08 AM // 03:08

I've always frowned upon Boon because so many monks bring it but never P&H to get their regen back, so usually run out of energy very quickly and can't make up for it very fast(only +3 regen), so I get stuck with all the healing.

Also, I've stopped really using enchants if I'm in a large party since the Rangers use Melandru's Arrows(does like +20 or more dmg to anyone under an enchant) so I stopped using Breeze and stuff otherwise the'd just take more dmg ^^

Gwenhywar · Sep 19, 2005, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Rossaroni - very nice advices. It does seem to me though that the first 2 builds are short of any energy management whatsoever. Lately my favourite PvE healing or part heal/part smite builds always include Offering of Blood for energy management, which seems to work great!

Just curious, has anyone else tried running Life Barriers or Bonds as prot monk in Furnace, and what was your experience? For Barriers, Rust can make energy management via Blessed Sig problematic at times (although there isn't that many ice elementals, and if you keep at back of the party you'll rarely get rusted). I quite enjoyed lifebonds the one time I tried them in SF, but a few times we run into a mob with 2-3 mesmers, and it was annoying to recast all those removed bonds. Might be much easier to play a regular prot monk ...

Gwenhywar · Sep 19, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahl

Also, I've stopped really using enchants if I'm in a large party since the Rangers use Melandru's Arrows(does like +20 or more dmg to anyone under an enchant) so I stopped using Breeze and stuff otherwise the'd just take more dmg ^^

Ahh, good point! I hadn't noticed that, since I've never played ranger and don't know about ranger elites much. My party is usually running Symbiosis though, which gives +~100 temporary HP for each enchantment on you - since eles normally have at least 2 enchants on, plus any temporary the monk has casted on them, it seems to be quite useful. And we usually take rangers out first.

Fantus · Sep 19, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg5000

Divine boon is both good and bad. The -1 energy regen is bad, very bad, for a healer. However, the added bonus you get with it makes it ideal for a short period of time. Took me till quite late in the game to stop bringing it along.

Yeah, I am usually going boon healer, but in SF I tend to do away with boon since it eats up my energy too quickly there. If you have a battery necro available, boon is of couse, still a first class choice.