Curse

Ashley Twig · Sep 22, 2005, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolsti

Ok, haven't been there yet! And haven't heard of it! Is that something you get after you finish the game? I still have to do the very last of the ROF missions.

It's one of the 5 quests that the vision of glint in Droknar's gives you.
And I think you have to complete the ROF missions first.

Numa Pompilius · Sep 22, 2005, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Indeed you do have to complete ROF, and indeed it seems impossible to do with henches. Lvl 6 henches vs lvl 24 - 28 mobs = instakill.

Takeko Nakano · Sep 22, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

I would like to step in here and calm things down a bit. I think the main problem is that the "specialist classes" - ones that require real care and attention - are often difficult to do. The number of useless necros I have come across..... it just isn't funny anymore. So, unfortunately, necros and mesmers often get branded by some players as being a potential liability they don't want to take.

That said, there is a lot to be said for memsers that they should be given a chance. But, as I have pointed out, it's not easy to find decent mesmers, so taking one on is often seen as a gamble.

Ashley Twig · Sep 23, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Indeed you do have to complete ROF, and indeed it seems impossible to do with henches. Lvl 6 henches vs lvl 24 - 28 mobs = instakill.

And though it's highly off-topic, here's a warning:

Don't even think about going to Droknar's to escort lvl20 henches to Beacons, just because you think you can go and defend Kryta with'em.

One and Two · Sep 23, 2005, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

And though it's highly off-topic, here's a warning:

Don't even think about going to Droknar's to escort lvl20 henches to Beacons, just because you think you can go and defend Kryta with'em.

LMAO. did you try?

coolsti · Sep 23, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Mesmers are just such a great class. Last night I wanted to finish the ROF missions with my Mesmer and had another Mesmer friend who also needed Hell's Precipice and wanted to help. So we went out with us 2 Me's plus 6 henchies. Of course there is nothing unusual in being able to complete such a mission with Mesmers, but the nice thing is that we made some stupid mistakes getting all but my friend killed at one time. But he was able to solo long enough to fight back to us and get us all resurrected. He also insisted on solo-ing the Wraith portal guards and I let him do this - he just put -10 health degen on them one at a time (combination of mantra of persistence, phantasm, crippling anguish and another life degrading skill whose name I can't remember offhand). So we just danced around, me and the henchies, and watched the wraiths die slowly one at a time.

BTW: a great trick for controlling the henchies in this situation (his solo-ing the wraiths) or when luring in general is to have one human keep moving around in the background. The constant movement attracts the henchies so the person luring can proceed without henchy involvement.

Sol_Vie · Sep 23, 2005, 08:17 AM // 08:17

As much as I love mesmers, there are a lot of people who just don't know how to play them...

MaglorD · Sep 23, 2005, 08:33 AM // 08:33

I haven't had any bad experiences with my mesmer. If anything, he's well appreciated. Helped out a group with Abbadon's Mouth mission not too long ago and many in the group were pleased with having a mesmer around. Killing Willa, the monk mursaat boss, was a breeze as she was shut down and could not heal herself while her life slowly ebbed away due to degen and other damage

cooljelly · Sep 23, 2005, 08:53 AM // 08:53

The PVE crowd doesn't like mesmer at all. I get rejected all the time when I try to join a formed party, unless I form the party on my own. I tried a few times today, no one wanted me when they formed party in war camp. I simply have never got into one group in war camp so far since it was released.

Now it seems to me that necros start to have some place in a group since they have some ability to 'tank'(still fall in the tank, nuke, heal catagory) while rangers and mesmers are still getting rejected most of the time.
Either because the PVE crowd doesn't even realize what the mesmer can do, or they do not trust that you are a good mesmer player. Although many people put into effort to show what a mesmer can do here and on other popular forum, I don't believe this situation will change any sooner.

Naprius · Sep 23, 2005, 08:58 AM // 08:58

ppl that reject mesmers and rangers are just dumb..

i love having rangers and mesmers in my team

thisissayantan · Sep 24, 2005, 07:42 PM // 19:42

I have 4 characters -- Nuker, Mesmer, Tank and Monk. The Mesmer gave me the most trouble getting used to. Till I was lvl 16, the Mesmer was rather retarded. And I had thought of retiring it for a necro. I do admit that Mesmers are very difficult to play with.

But now, however, the Mesmer is my favorite. It is a damn good build for farming in both SF as well as FoW. I use shatter hex, with CP and SD and Power block on the Priest of Sorrows. And I have the "Handmasher".

unienaule · Sep 24, 2005, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote from cooljelly:
Now it seems to me that necros start to have some place in a group since they have some ability to 'tank'(still fall in the tank, nuke, heal catagory) while rangers and mesmers are still getting rejected most of the time.

Necros, tanking? Bad idea. One warrior is enough of a tank for 8 people. The reason people want necros is mainly for minion masters or BiP. The true minion MASTERS can get 15-20+ bone horrors/fiends up at once.

funbun · Sep 24, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Necros, tanking? Bad idea. One warrior is enough of a tank for 8 people. The reason people want necros is mainly for minion masters or BiP. The true minion MASTERS can get 15-20+ bone horrors/fiends up at once.

Maybe that's what he meant by Necros being tanks. Necro minions are tanks.

TGgold · Sep 24, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

I remember doind missions where I was taken just as something to have another person in the party, and as such not really "appreciated". This was in the desert, and being lvl 20 made me at least get into one or two groups for those bloody missions. And then at least a few people started having respect for mesmers.

As for a while back someone made a comment about why an anti-caster would bring empathy. In PvE, if you're running domination, empathy is useually good to bring along even if you're anticaster. There's nothing a team hates more than having a caster doing nothing to a whole gorup of enemies if you run across a group with no casters.

I also remember fighting Grenth with my mesmer...and it was nasty...on her part. I mean, I doubt many people realised I interrupted almost everything she did, or she was just hurting herself.....

funbun · Sep 24, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGgold

I remember doind missions where I was taken just as something to have another person in the party, and as such not really "appreciated". This was in the desert, and being lvl 20 made me at least get into one or two groups for those bloody missions. And then at least a few people started having respect for mesmers.

As for a while back someone made a comment about why an anti-caster would bring empathy. In PvE, if you're running domination, empathy is useually good to bring along even if you're anticaster. There's nothing a team hates more than having a caster doing nothing to a whole gorup of enemies if you run across a group with no casters.

I also remember fighting Grenth with my mesmer...and it was nasty...on her part. I mean, I doubt many people realised I interrupted almost everything she did, or she was just hurting herself.....

Grenth or Glint?

KaPe · Sep 25, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

"I also remember fighting Grenth with my mesmer...and it was nasty...on her part. I mean, I doubt many people realised I interrupted almost everything she did, or she was just hurting herself....."

Had to be first battle which I had to use some Mesmer interrupts, despite playing monk. But, next time we thought, some other classes took their own interrupts - no need for Mesmer.

I still say, monk bosses are only thing that makes people appreciate Mesmers. Sometimes. Kinda. Well, maybe.

van · Sep 25, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

well I just started out as a mesmer/elementist and i have really had a lot of fun playing with this build. I havent left presearing yet but this is proably my favorite build so far. When ever i go out by my self and get in a battle it is over with in 2 mins. the mesmer is a excellent class that is really overlooked

cooljelly · Sep 25, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

Maybe that's what he meant by Necros being tanks. Necro minions are tanks.

Let me confirm it... Yes, the minions are tanks.

The SF set up does encourage people to take a necro in team to tank the team and get rid of the corpses before the enemies create some minions or a well of suffering. I even switched to Me/N simply to get rid of the corpses when doing Orozar with the all henchies team.

And SF also encourages people to take mesmers in the team to disable the tough self-healing bosses, to nuke units that cast hex spells(Ice siege golem, heretic, trademaster etc etc), and units that keep casting spells even with backfire on them.

However, I think the problem is still that the visiblity of the effort. Many people have mentioned this, and I agree with it. To know what a mesmer is doing and what she/he contributes to the party, you probably need to have some knowledge of this class on your own.

The hundreds of damage done by backfire and shatter hex is nothing compared with the minions following the necro to most of the PVE people since the minions are attacking and tanking while they just cannot see the damage done by the mesmers.

Saerden · Sep 28, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

I dont like the attitude of most mesmers who think that simply because they play a class that noone wants they have to be special.

Mesmers have some good tricks for pve, but most of it can be safely outperformed by another e/me nuker or monk. While i dont regard mesmers as useless, i dont see anything thats worth bringing over another monk, e/mo or e/me. rangers and necros can be good in some places, but they are only needed as "safeguards". A bad ranger, mesmer or necro is just useless. The only thing that is worse is a bad warrior, esp if he is not the first warrior in the team... While playing my Axe dps Wa/mo (pen/evisc/exec/FGJ) i realized that blindly charging a mob cluster and just waiting out the meteor showers was enough ... carefull pulling and strategy just lead to spread out mobs.

Sure, a good mesmer will outperform a medicore [other profession], but a good ele will outshine a good mesmer in pve. There may be exceptions, but i never had problems killing single boss monks that cant be knocked down with henches. If you look at the hench-skill thread, you will realize how easy it should be with people who actually take good skills.

An disorganized team (and everything with more then 1 warrior) will greatly profit from a mesmer, since you cant herd/nuke the mobs into oblivion. There will be chaos, and actually shutting down mobs that dont attack the warrior and are knocked down by echoed meteors becomes important. In a good team, nothing will last long enough to cause enough of a threat.

While many people ignore mesmers out of ignorance, most of the teams worth being in dont take mesmers because they fear that they will be worthless. Eles are straightforward. Skill will improve performance, but even one meteor shower per fight is enough to justify the slot. Come on, there are people who advocate DoTs in this thread. No thanks. 3 mesmer DoTs do 20dps on one creature, a e/mo smiter does ~40+ on everyone around the warrior ...

Feel free to disagree, but the argument that a crappy pug with 3 warriors, 2 using swords, could not beat a monk boss is not an argument. Every real team without a single mesmer will wtfpwn a boss. Compare bad to bad and good to good please. Yes, i realize that diversion is great and easy. Does not need mes primary though. Remember im PvE its enought to beat the mobs, no need to squeeze 10 extra seconds in diversion ... you can try to accuse me of being narrowminded and prone to use brute force. Thats right, it works in pve, so why bother? If i want novelty stuff and creativity, i will not be joining PUGs but rather forming novelty teams.

I dont say that mesmers are useless nor do i say that they need to be kicked on sight, but NOT talking to a mesmer about skills and tactics is a huge mistake. There are lots of arrogant players out there who think they are so much better then the wa/mo. Then they use DoTs.

Good ways to recognize bad mesmers:
mind wrack, wastrels, ignorance, panic, shatter delusions, most signets, arcane conundrum, Conjure Phantasm, Crippling Anguish, Ethereal Burden, Illusionary Weaponry, Ineptitude, Phantom Pain, Migraine, Ether Feast, Ether Lord. I Probably forgot a couple, and some may have interesting combo uses i did not think of, but 90% is junk.

Its more difficult to make a mesmer work in a good team imho, and when 1 war, 4 eles and 3 monks are enough, why bother? Of course, if you have a good guild mesmer, they own. So does every other profession. Few realize that its the person behind the screen that owns, not the char. Lots of the stuff i read in this thread really makes me wonder... the only real thing that made me drool was shatter hex. hmm...

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Sep 28, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saerden

Good ways to recognize bad mesmers:
mind wrack, wastrels, ignorance, panic, shatter delusions, most signets, arcane conundrum, Conjure Phantasm, Crippling Anguish, Ethereal Burden, Illusionary Weaponry, Ineptitude, Phantom Pain, Migraine, Ether Feast, Ether Lord. I Probably forgot a couple, and some may have interesting combo uses i did not think of, but 90% is junk.

More like 10% is junk and you dont know shit?

What did you really leave? The anti-warrior skills, backfire, a few other shut downs and the Inspiration Defensive skills. That's what makes a good mesmer to you? Wow, no wonder you never take any along.

If this is the case, in your mind a Mesmer's only job is to protect you while you do the killing. And that's so much bullshit I dont even know where to begin.

So I wont even bother. After that long winded and completely clueless speech, anyone who actually knows a damn thing will just think you as big of a moron as I do.