Curse

Pelias · Sep 11, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

Ok, initial post was about FARMING groups.
Explain how is Mesmer usable in famrin run, especially 4 people farming run.

Or even better, explain, fully, with pictures, graphs and calculations, why is mesmer a better choice over wells/minionmaster/BiP_RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO necro in SF? A very skilled necro, ofc.

Jeeez, I'm so bored with that "xxx class is so uber, but you need to be teh_great_mastah to fully understand" babbling.

Gwenhywar · Sep 12, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

I don't think any smart player denies the power and usefullness of mesmers (especially in Furnace!). If the players in the group don't have a clue of what you can do, and why they need you in the group, do you really want to be grouped with those players? (and will that group get far?).

I don't, however, like the tone many mesmer players present themselves, making it sound like they're the ultimate addition to any group, and are doing much more than others in the group ...

Every group is only as good as its teamwork. While I know my fire ele can dish out huge amounts of damage, I'll never say she's the ultimate part of this group because without the tanks holding monsters off her and giving her time to cast, and the monk or mesmer removing the nasty hexes from her and keeping her alive, she'd be nothing.

Most things one class can do, there are at least one other class that can do it too, with the ONLY exception being monks and their healing powers (and that too, not always - I just beat Thunderhead with a 5 people group with NO real Mo or even /Mo, and it was a breeze!).

It's all in the teamwork and how well your skills are working together with your teammates' skills. The kind of attitude some mesmer players who posted in this thread have doesn't seem to help enhancing teamwork ...

Theos · Sep 12, 2005, 01:49 AM // 01:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelias

Ok, initial post was about FARMING groups.
Explain how is Mesmer usable in famrin run, especially 4 people farming run.

Or even better, explain, fully, with pictures, graphs and calculations, why is mesmer a better choice over wells/minionmaster/BiP_RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO necro in SF? A very skilled necro, ofc.

Jeeez, I'm so bored with that "xxx class is so uber, but you need to be teh_great_mastah to fully understand" babbling.

I doubt anyone with an above average IQ will state that a mesmer, or any class for that matter, is better than any other. Yes, a necro who knows what he is doing is just as useful as a mesmer, both can do alot of the same things, just that one shuts down certain things more than the other.

The sad thing I have noticed in furnace is that many of the mesmers there are quite... to say this nicely... awful or not even playing mesmer. Either they are a fast casting ele or monk, or just some bad Chaos Storm Spamming mesmer who casts CS on a melee target thinking it will do anything. (yes a mesmer did cast this on a farming run...) Sadly to say many of the mesmers there right now (like every other class) are quite bad, and for a class that is so little used it makes them seem even worse in the eyes of those who suffer through their suckiness.

BTW, I have a thing against the fast cast mesmer eles... I don't know why but they seem far less effective to me... sure you cast a spell faster but in large battles it won't matter for the reasons that you now lack considerable DoT from things like Meteor Shower and that you will become useless quickly due to exhaust. I could make numbers and charts but... I do that in school ><

necrozsi · Sep 12, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

i can understand how u feel, people believe that nukers are best for uw for example, however i seen a curse necro do way more dmg to uw with spiteful spirit spam and mark of pain + other curses. since curse dont suffer dmg penalty while fire does to uw monster. however try convincin everyone in TOA about this and they call u newb ~_~.
i personally believe in a party of 8 a mesmer can be some use or of great use espeically vs healing bosses, but people are so stuck with the old warrior + nuker + tank builds they are unwilling to try anything else

octaviancmb · Sep 12, 2005, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

The sad thing I have noticed in furnace is that many of the mesmers there are quite... to say this nicely... awful or not even playing mesmer. Either they are a fast casting ele or monk, or just some bad Chaos Storm Spamming mesmer who casts CS on a melee target thinking it will do anything. (yes a mesmer did cast this on a farming run...) Sadly to say many of the mesmers there right now (like every other class) are quite bad, and for a class that is so little used it makes them seem even worse in the eyes of those who suffer through their suckiness.

Certainly there are bad Mesmers, as with any profession. However, there might have been good reasons why your particular Mesmer was casting Chaos Storm on melee targets. He or she may have already taken out the spellcasters and then was simply trying to be as useful as possible -- and you have to admit that Chaos Storm is much better than just wanding. And if that Mesmer also carried Echo, why not Echo it? The energy's not doing any good just sitting there. Maybe the Mesmer was also using other hexes (Empathy, Soothing Images, Clumsiness, Diversion, etc) that don't have very good visual representations, but can dramatically affect the battle...

Or that Mesmer might have just been bad. You can't know till you ask for their skill bar.

And I'm totally with you on those fast casting Me/El's. But sometimes that's how a Mesmer has to spec himself out just to get a group: "Look, I'm a nuker, too."

Now for the part directed to the general reading public... I did a little experiment earlier today. I mapped my Mesmer primary into every single available American district, posted a couple of "looking for group" messages, waited a couple minutes, and moved on. Know how long it took before I got an invite or a PM? I don't either, because it never happened. Yet in every district there were groups looking for Elementalists and Monks. A *handfull* even had groups trying to find a Warrior. One actually had a group seeking a Necromancer (I know, I was shocked, too). Never saw a single group looking for either Mesmers or Rangers.

I duplicated the experiment with my Ele and my Monk: immediate invite for the Monk, and less than 1 minute of waiting for the Elementalist.

Now I understand the arguments that one profession is not necessarilly better than any other, but I know from experience my Mesmer does more damage in SF than my Elementalist and has the added benefit of protecting my party. I have no explanation for people's reticence to invite Mesmers other than ignorance about what is accomplishable with them. It saddens me to read that there are players who've actually finished the game without ever even grouping with a primary Mesmer, or that there are those who think the profession is useful only in PvP.

cmb, the disgruntled Mesmer.

lg5000 · Sep 12, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

I finally managed to convince my partner to take a mesmer (I was healing at the time) on the dumb mission which requires team work (who's name I conveniently forgot). And the time we did, not only did we finish that mission + bonus, we continued on and finished the game (missing the bonuses of the last two missions). Yes, we had a great team, but... without mesmer, things would have looked very different and harder.. in PvE, things just drop when you have one of them around.

As for anyone who thinks you can't solo with mesmers, it can be done. Not that I'm entirly sure what you mean by 'solo' and I'm finding dealing with more than 2 monsters at a time almost impossible (that's with a pure mesmer skill bar) but.. up to two monsters is fine. My mesmer is secondary monk purly for 1 skill! Resurect. which I can actually use during battle while other skills recharge.

Also, while chaos storm is pretty much usless in PvP (at least given the fact that it's easily avoided) in PvE monsters don't move that much

But then, someone here (me) has a self convidence problem, and although my healer managed to do the insane thing of being half asleep and having a smiter/healer as second monk on the team doing hell's prenciples, and getting through it without too much of a problem (I don't remember much of it), I still feel somewhat scared that I'll screw up with my mesmer if I'm in a group with actual people.

Oh well.. back to killing drakes by myself

until I work out a better skill combination or decide risk getting a group.

Ashley Twig · Sep 12, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemmy

People, backfire is 15 energy, lasts 10 secs, casting time (v. important) 3, unless you have ie energy drain (or other regaining energy spell) it is just 1-2 use time and it doesn't much against caster

It works pretty well in PvE. Wouldn't want to leave without it.
As for the casting time: I have FastCasting set pretty high and use a staff that improves fast casting and that adds +10 energy. So usually, in PvE, I cast backfire faster then any of the mobs can interrupt.

In PvP, things might look different.

cagan · Sep 12, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Backfire is great, it ties up a mage.
The AI isn't too bright, but for the most part, enemies will avoid casting spells whilst a backfire is on them. Backfire really reads "target mage stands there looking stupid for 10 seconds while you focus on another target". A very nice skill indeed.

Mark of Rodgort · Sep 12, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

OMG I <3 Mesmers.

Last night I joined a 5 man farming team in grents footprint to get some of them green items.

we had 1 tank, 2 healers, 2 nukers AND OMG YAKSLAPPER I HATE YOU. we had 2 echo nukers ( iwas one of them) and took us forever to kill yakslapper. omg i hate him now. i m always exicted to see him before because he can drop a green item for my monk but now , i hate him. he heals hella.

we finally took him down when we all rested, recharged our spellsand made one massive bombardment . hahahah 4 meteor showers 2 firestorms and all fireball everywhere he died. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

the lesson is: bring a mesmer!

Ashley Twig · Sep 12, 2005, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark of Rodgort

AND OMG YAKSLAPPER I HATE YOU. we had 2 echo nukers ( iwas one of them) and took us forever to kill yakslapper. omg i hate him now.

Yakslapper is a whimp like most healers and bosses are in the new updade.
A resurecting Lvl2-Gargoyle from Ascalon is more frightening than Yakslapper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark of Rodgort

the lesson is: bring a mesmer!

Or bring a ranger who knows how to use DistractingShot and other skills that interrupt.

funbun · Sep 12, 2005, 12:01 PM // 12:01

But the cool thing about Mesmers isthat Sup Runes cheap!!! Last time I checked you can get all 5 sup mesmer runes for less than 1k. I think Mesmer is the most cost efective character to build.

Leddy · Sep 12, 2005, 12:14 PM // 12:14

I toasted Yakslapper with Mhenlo, Lina, Stefan and Cynn. Dunno why you had so much trouble.

Pelias · Sep 12, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Yeah, Yakslapper dies like a fly.
BTW, noone aswered my question yet:P

funbun · Sep 12, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

What was your question?

octaviancmb · Sep 12, 2005, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelias

Ok, initial post was about FARMING groups.
Explain how is Mesmer usable in famrin run, especially 4 people farming run.

The short answer: for the same reason every other profession is good to have for farming groups -- they kill stuff fast (or they can keep you alive longer; take your pick or mix and match for greater effect).

The long answer requires me to not be teaching today, so you won't get that one...at least from me.
cmb

Snowman · Sep 12, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

sad but true.. I initially didnt think much of mesmers.. you cant pick one as a henchmen in ascalon, if you did get one on your team they often died first..

But after making a mesmer you quickly realise their enourmous potential, especially in PVP.

A Farming mesmer though does need to have lots of ways to keep himself alive, a few axe beatings over the head from one of those slaves soon kills you off... I take ether feast troll unguent and armour which increases 'while casting spells'

I think your right though, to take mesmer as your first profession to go through the game with is possibly a mistake if you dont like the challenge.. taking a warrior or monk guarantees that you get invited to nearly every occasion. I chose mesmer as secondary, because it doesnt matter too much if he doesnt get invited to farm, have my warrior for that

mesmers strong hold is in PVP for sure.

Unik · Sep 12, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I’m going to have to agree with most people here when they say that Mesmers are misunderstood, not only that but some players seem to not even have a clue what we can do in a team.

I had a funny little experienced about a week or two ago which I found quite amusing, no it wasn’t in pve but in pvp, yet I think it shows the frame mind of many players, anyhow here goes.

We go into battle against a 3 monk team, the battles goes our way fairly fast and of course we win easily, after the fight the group is talking about the results.

Warrior: Wow did you see the damage I was doing, I usually don’t even come close to that kind of damage man those targets went down fast, I wonder why?

Me: I can tell you that your targets weren’t getting any healing or protection from the other monks, because I was having a blast tormenting them and shutting them down.

Warrior: (completely ignores what I said and answers) Must be the extra aptitude point I put in Hammer mastery!

Me: (laughing to my self) Yea must be that extra point.

We start the next fight and I decided to follow orders like I was told and instead of using my mesmer to shut down any support to the called target. I followed the target and didn’t touch anyone else. Well we got beaten badly and funny thing is that, the warrior all of a sudden wasn’t doing the uber damage he was dishing out the fight before.

Again after the fight we go into discussion mode.

Warrior: I wonder what they were doing, I couldn’t do any damage worth while on any targets and every time the target would get close to going down they would get healed faster than we could finish them off.

Me: Well this time around they weren’t getting shutdown, which probably is one of the things that didn’t help.

Warrior: Yea, I should have kept Dwarven Battle Stance in my skills.

At that point I decided to drop the subject and just laugh it out for myself.

To all the mesmers out there… I feel and share your pain.

Lol

Unik

Snowman · Sep 12, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

There is a clever little trick that nearly all games implement to stop this kind of arguing..

they make it so you actually see how much damage other players are doing...

I have soo lost count the amount of times I've finished of the tough baddie with shatter hex or something.. people around the baddie cheer as if they were the ones who finally killed it.. I think not.

if you could see what damage allys were doing then just imagine for a second what it would be like...

oh look! those 3 warriors are all doing 5-10 points of damage.. no wonder they are struggling to finish that boss off..

BAM... 100+ points of damage suddenly comes off at the right time, a big number 100 goes up in the air green to signify mesmer damage (maybe) this instant damage meant no healing could have stopped it... dead.

Everyone runs to the mesmer and cheers... 'w00t for mesmers'..

And then I woke up!

Unik · Sep 12, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Lol Snowman, really good one and I do have to agree this would pretty much solve the problem and show people how every profession works and what it means to have builds that compliment each other.

But yea I think you weren dreaming there...

Unik

Shadowspawn X · Sep 12, 2005, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

I wouldnt if I didnt have a ranger in my party. Rangers can lure, deal damage, set nasty traps and disrupt casters while being less fragile then most casters. I think the same applies for rangers as for mesmers, only n00b's (not newbies but stoopid ppl) dont build balanced parties. I wont go with 2 rangers, I'd rather have one ranger, one mesmer, two warriors, two monks, and two nukers (Ele or N).

I completed aurgubly the most difficult quest in game Titans Source the last of the 5 new Titan storyline quests (worth a tasty 50k XP ) with no warriors in my group , but 2 rangers. So thanks for having a ranger on board, but dont be too rigid.