Curse

salja Wachi · Sep 09, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by perfect

Ok well my party and I were extremely sad we didnt have a mesmer by the time we got to the end of Sorrow Furnace.

*SPOILER*
Here is a picture spoiling the end boss, so look at your own risk:
http://www.photodump.com/direct/PerfectBurn/gw058.jpg

Mesmer could have saved us all. I wont go back without one from now on.

as usual people find out too late that the most useful characters are the support characters

good for you that you have seen the light

dreamcrafter · Sep 09, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Thanks man. I started posting around stuff like that ("Rangers Mesmers and Necors WELCOME. Eles Warriors and Monks too" "Starting Party to have some FUN in Furnace" "We eon't flame you, call you names or leave without telling"...) in the War Camp and had a well rounded party in no time.

We did the mission with the dwarf who was looking for his brother and got beaten in hte end, but we had a blast going there, worked together well (apart from a few instances where somebody aggroed too many mobs at once - but we still managed to defeat them without large losses and nobody started flaming each other) and got a few nice items from bosses. It was one of my nicest GW experiences in a long time. I think I'll try this out more often..

sidepocket13 · Sep 09, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by salja Wachi

as usual people find out too late that the most useful characters are the support characters

good for you that you have seen the light

after my first failed attempt as afull healer i switched over to healer/condition removal and my team thanked me! so support characters are REALLY useful in the new areas! (i would like to see more batteries errr i mean necros)

Thanas · Sep 09, 2005, 05:08 PM // 17:08

I find mesmers to be extremely effective, and very efficient foes, mostly due to the long cast times of my necro spells. As a necro I also find it difficult to find groups. Basically there are lot of very ignorant players out there.

Imp · Sep 09, 2005, 05:13 PM // 17:13

I'm a monk and I love mesmers, rangers, and necros. So don't diss all the monks d=

Sir Skullcrasher · Sep 09, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

I currently played as a level 15 mesmer. But I haven't got into Sorrow Furnace yet (not ascened). And i do notice that not alot of mesmer is in war camp. I see mostly warriors or rangers people looking for group.

wsmcasey · Sep 09, 2005, 05:49 PM // 17:49

My guild as been doing mission and farming in sorrows furnace, your welcome to join us anytime

ign: Roxie Rooter lvl20 mo/w

Volarian · Sep 09, 2005, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Let's put an end to this thread by simply stating:

If you haven't done any of the new quests or explored the new areas, there are allot of Hexes being thrown at you and that is a Mesmer's specialty (in part). You should definitely consider bringing one along every time, for their shutdown abilities on other casters, their hex removals, energy stealing and health degen capabilites.

If you HAVE done some of the new quests or explorable areas and don't require a Mesmer or think you need one, then I'm glad you've found another option that works but still....don't discount their ability to hang or keep up with any other class.

Lemmy · Sep 09, 2005, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Yes, for five seconds I have a 75% chance to evade. Every evasion costs me 3 energy or distortion ends, and attacks which ignore evasion gets through. Not really tankability.

It is 1 Energy on 12lvl illusion and it works great, especially with spirit of failure, you can heal yourself using ether feast, if it doesn't work why there is a lot of IW mesmers that are based on distortion? Did you test it in practice or it is just your assumption? I didn't like it either unless tried it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Most mesmers will bring energy replenishment spells. Energy isn't really a big problem for mesmers - in fact stealing energy from the enemy is one of the ways mesmers shut them down.

The key I wanted to mention that they should bring them with themselves or balance them with use of others. As my experience says (not logic) many have problem with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

IMO a pretty useless spell. For 20 seconds, if targets energy = 0, then it does 90 damage and ends. It's not always that easy to get the enemy down to zero, and when you do, 90 damage isn't a lot. You can do more damage quicker or for less energy through direct damage spells like Energy Burn or even Conjure Phantasm.

If you want to deal damage pick up Ele :P

The key of this skill IS NOT damage, it is that caster (ie: monk) will not use skills so frequently as he would without this hex, it is slowing down him for cheap price 5 energy and 5 sec recast, you think 95 (16lvl) damage for 5 energy that ignores armor isn't a lot? how many you would like to have?, you want to compare it to lightning strike, maybe obsidian flame?
And you haven't really read what I meant... It is better for you if your enemy will try not to trigger mind wrack so his attention will be on his energy, not to help his teammates. Your thinking is like mentioned before: "it doesn't do obvious damage right away so it is useless", this is how think W/Mos when don't want to pick up mesmer, taking eles instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

That said, I used Mind Wrack + Spirit Shackles to beat my mirror during ascension. But a human would never have fallen for a cheap trick like that.

And what would do human? Stop attacking? So he would be locked. Isn't this what is all about being mesmer?

Numa Pompilius · Sep 10, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemmy

It is 1 Energy on 12lvl illusion and it works great, especially with spirit of failure, you can heal yourself using ether feast, if it doesn't work why there is a lot of IW mesmers that are based on distortion? Did you test it in practice or it is just your assumption? I didn't like it either unless tried it out.

Illusion is the anti-melee skillset. I can respec to take care of the wamos, but I can't also be high in Domination, the anti-caster skillset. Then there's the energy management skillset, Inspiration, and of course the speedcasting skillset, Fast Cast. You'll need to spend some points in those too.

That's the rub. You can't be good at everything.

I'm presently specced to deal with casters, and I can very effectively do so, but I'm no good at dealing with warriors. That works great in PvE, but is a complete disaster in random PvP, where I'd be much better off, as a mesmer, speccing to deal with wamos. There's a reason most mesmers in random arena are illusionist Me/W's.

Quote:

The key I wanted to mention that they should bring them with themselves or balance them with use of others. As my experience says (not logic) many have problem with that.

For guild-teams i agree. In PUG's and random arena it simply doesn't work, you got to be able to take care of yourself there.

Quote:

If you want to deal damage pick up Ele :P

Or a monk. But I deal plenty damage to casters.

<Mind Wrack>

Quote:

The key of this skill IS NOT damage, it is that caster (ie: monk) will not use skills so frequently as he would without this hex, it is slowing down him for cheap price 5 energy and 5 sec recast, you think 95 (16lvl) damage for 5 energy that ignores armor isn't a lot?

The thing is that if the monk knows how Wracks works, all he has to do is keep from getting zero energy, and if I have 16 dom I'm unlikely to be specced for energy denial.

Quote:

Your thinking is like mentioned before: "it doesn't do obvious damage right away so it is useless", this is how think W/Mos when don't want to pick up mesmer, taking eles instead.

I'm just saying I don't consider it an effective lockdown hex in PvP, and not damaging enough in PvE. It's not scary enough. It's a good chaff hex, as it stays on for 20 seconds, but personally I'd rather take diversion for PvP as if it's removed it takes an anti-hex skill out of circulation for a minute or so.

Gwenhywar · Sep 10, 2005, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Title: Tips for finding a bad group.

Seriously, if you're gonna start your own group, DON'T accept or give out blind invites. You advertise and wait for them to PM you. Just because that guy joined 10 seconds after you put out your advertisement does not mean he read what you typed. It goes the other way around as well. If someone advertises, message them first before putting an invite up.

This simple method really filters out 90% of the idiots.

sooo true! Especially in Tombs, blind invite groups is just a complete waste of time, even reasonable rank 0 players will have some sort of communication going on before heading in.

The same for FoW/UW ... never join groups that randomly invite you (unless someone is asking for a specific class and asking you to invite yourself, of course).

To the OP I could suggest starting your own group, advertising what kind of classes/skills you want in your group and inviting people who advertise they have these skills. mesmer is pretty much a must for a successful FoW group. And please avoid grouping with W/Mos

Unless you can have a longer chat with them before heading in and making sure they actually have a brain (asking what kind of weapon and skills they are using is a good indicator ... if they start bragging about their leet weapon instead of telling what skills they use it's probably better to pass ^^). In any case a group of 3-4 warriors together usually doesn't mean anything good ... don't regret they didn't accept your invite.

As to Furnace, I agree with the above posts that a mesmer is VERY VERY handy there. Im lucky to be in a guild with several excellent mesmers!

KaPe · Sep 10, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Nothing against Mesmers, but when I read crap like "When you don't invite Mesmer to your party, you suck" etc... They are by no means neccesary or needed. Only time when you might really want one, is when you face Monk boss that heals himself all the time - and as Mo/Me, I can simply cast Diversion when he's left alone and I don't have to heal anymore. No need for primary Mesmer.
Don't make it sound like Mesmer is ultimate class that can do everything, but players are just "noobs" and can't see that. It doesn't make you any better than "typical" W/Mo super-tank berserker.

cagan · Sep 10, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Silly people exist in all classes.
I'm hoping these people are jsut frustrated by how we are currently treated, and don't really mean to make it sound like mesmers are the ultimate class.

good yes, useful yes, ultimate no.

AeroLion · Sep 10, 2005, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by KaPe

Nothing against Mesmers, but when I read crap like "When you don't invite Mesmer to your party, you suck" etc... They are by no means neccesary or needed. Only time when you might really want one, is when you face Monk boss that heals himself all the time - and as Mo/Me, I can simply cast Diversion when he's left alone and I don't have to heal anymore. No need for primary Mesmer.
Don't make it sound like Mesmer is ultimate class that can do everything, but players are just "noobs" and can't see that. It doesn't make you any better than "typical" W/Mo super-tank berserker.

Nothing against you, but you are grossly uninformed about Mesmers and their abilities if you think the only time you would want one is to fight a monk boss. A good mesmer can shut down 3 casters at the same time in PVE. It's not even hard. That's 3 enemies that can't heal their allies or damage your party while you can roll over them.

You're right, they're not needed. All you need is to out-heal and out-damage your opponents. Sorrow's Furnace is the one place, at the moment, that doesn't work like that. This is a good thing because a single mesmer makes every one of the missions in there as much of a cakewalk as the rest of PVE.

I highly suggest you become more familiar with mesmer skills before you make such a blanket statement again.

KaPe · Sep 10, 2005, 02:18 AM // 02:18

My "blanket statement" is simply response to things like "you suck because you don't take mesmers with you". I played with mesmers, partied with mesmers, including titans quest with mes guild mate. I just don't like namecalling because I don't "recognize" their "greatness". Just read this thread. It's filled with such "blanket statements".
Edit: Oh yeah, and don't make it sound like all Mesmer are poor, mistreated and misunderstood players. I partied with some that made *me* do Mesmer work with Diversion. Yeah, Backfire and Phantasm is all fine, but that's not enough. There are crappy Mesmers, just like any other class.

AeroLion · Sep 10, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Then maybe you should have said that because you came off like you know nothing of the class.

KaPe · Sep 10, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

And maybe you should read part where it states that "Mo/Me". If I didn't like my 2nd profession, I'd change it long time ago.
Edit to below : I don't want to drag argument further - what I was saying that in one case where you really *need* mesmer, secondary one can do it just as well - one of reasons primaries aren't very popular in parties. And yes, I did play with Mes primary - and it's very different from all other classes. Yet I didn't feel "special" or "better" just because of that.
Edit mk2 : Before you say that you "need" Mesmer in many other cases - no, you don't. There a big difference between party thinking "Having a Mesmer now would help us a lot" and "Crap, we're trying to kill that damn monk for 10 minutes and he's *still* not dead".

AeroLion · Sep 10, 2005, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Are you trying to be ignorant? Are you trying to tell me that a Mo/Me is the same as a Me primary because it's not even in the same ballpark. Look, seriously, your post that I quoted is really deficient of anything that a Me primary can actually do. I can accept your follow-up post because I believe you when you said that it was a blanket statement. All you needed to do was "yeah, my bad but I still stand by my statement in context of this thread" and all would have been good. But now you're trying to come off like a Mo/Me is somehow the same as a Me/x.

Symbol · Sep 10, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Bring shatter hex and watch your Mesmer do bigger spikes of damage than your nukers while also ripping a necro hex off your team's warrior. All the Necros in furnace make shatter hex quite useful, even if it is 15 energy, you're doing 100+ area damage and helping an ally.
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Tell me about it, as a primary elementalist I'm still shocked at the damage shatter hex can do. Empathy is just an awesome DoT, from a damage/mana standpoint it is so much better than most elementalist spells (even with their attunement), I don't know why people don't use it more often.

And these are things that I can use as a _secondary_ mesmer. I shudder to think at the nasty toys a primary mesmer could play with.

BeatWolf · Sep 10, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Just because mesmers are more COMPLEX Classes and require alot more attention and skill to be able to be effective, ppl tend to dislike and just want to hack slash (warrior), nuke (ele) ect..