Curse

striker caps · Oct 20, 2005, 03:48 PM // 15:48

hey guys whats a good group for the UW because when i did it we got killed in like 5 secs i had 3 WAR, 1 nukers, and 2 monks, 1 necro, 1 ranger.

any advice what kind of group is a good group to going in to the UW

striderkaaru · Oct 20, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

you can make almost any group combination work. don't limit yourself to certain class combos.

the main issue is did the people in your group know what they were doing? your combo is actually very good for taking on the uw, provided that the individuals know what to do.

IxChel · Oct 20, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

In the underworld, you want a designated protection monk who is quick with protective spirit; and aegis. Getting past the ataxe is where most groups fail. You just have to know that with caster armour they hit for about 200-300 health, so, in 2-3 hits, your average caster is dead. If you cannot find a way to blind the attaxe (ranger or elementalist), then Protective Spirit is your only savior: this skill limits damage per hit, no matter what your armour, to 10% of your max health, or around 40 HP.

Unfortunately, you really can only protect one or two people /w protective spirit (due to energy constraints, recharge, etc.) Therefore, it's important that your team get a designated "tank". With protective spirit, it doesn't matter if your tank is a ranger, warrior, or even a mesmer. With 85 armour, the bulls do 150 or so damage. While this is certainly less than 250, it is still more than 40. So, it doesn't matter what class your tank is as long as protective spirit is up. Once you have a tank, that tank should _never_ move, or the bulls might decide to change targets and go for the unprotected, soft-bellied casters.

The biggest problem is when you have a renegade bull who breaks away from the tank and heads towards the party. As soon as you see a renegade bull, it's time for Aegis (to make miss rate 50%); and, as soon as the monk knows who is being hit, they have 1s to respond with a protective spirit on the victim. This is where you team-mate has to do something completely unnatural -- after just taking a 250 health hit, they must stand still, and pray that your protection monk gets the protective spirit there before the very next hit. A good protection monk will have PS on them as soon as the health bar drops, well before the next hit. However, if that caster then decides to run after the Protective Spirit is on them -- your team is open for the mauling. Between the recharge and the energy cost, it's unlikely that the bull's next target will survive. With one down, people start running, and even if the monk has another protective spirit loaded; the chance of them getting it on someone who will "stand sill" is minimal. When entering Underworld you need to hammer this again and again: DO NOT RUN, DIE IF YOU MUST.

When I'm playing protection monk in a Pick Up Group and I have a renegade bull, I run towards the bull (away from the group) to offer myself up for his brutality. If he takes the bait, I can use PS on myself and just stand there healing till he dies. Rangers also make very good backup tanks -- they can run forward and throw dirt on the renegate bull. The advantage of having a designated "secondary tank" is that you don't have to count on someone fighting their natural reflexes to run...

Oh... one last comment about the Underworld. When you're team is being mauled by bulls; split up and run in different directions -- and never run in a direction where someone is already. The bulls are quite dumb, and they will follow you to your death. You want to die as far away from your fellow team-mate as possible so that they have a chance to live. The last thing you want to do is run toward your monk /w a bull in hot pursuit. He will kill you, and then proceed to kill the person on your team who would (if he had the chance) provide your resurrection. That said, if you're "safe" with a renegade bull, you want to remind your team not to run to you; I draw a solid line far from me, and put an X on the side I'm on. Even players who don't speak English tend to figure that out, and in most cases, will turn around and not bring the bull over to finish you.

The last thing that people often get wrong in the very first time is that they kill the dryders _before_ they kill every single ataxe. Leave those Dryder's alone till you've cleared every last patrol. If you don't, the reaper will appear... and the attaxe will get him. If the reaper dies, your party fails.

In the Underworld, never take a quest unless you've fully discussed it with your team and everyone agrees it is the correct decision. For example, don't talk to the soul when you first enter that gives you the "Clear the Chamber" quest -- you need to clear the Attaxes first. As another example, you want to clear all the way to the second reaper, and kill nearby coldfires before you accept the "Monuments" or "Souls" quest. Finally, unless you've got a death wish, don't take "Unwanted Guests".

Racthoh · Oct 20, 2005, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Slap weakness on the inital aatxe, and use Dolyak Signet on your warriors. Your 'tank' should idealy be going down there with 3-4 stances (depending on tactics level) to take the inital aggro of as many aatxe as you need to. Make sure everyone stays out of your tanks aggro circle until the patrol is also on the warrior.

striderkaaru · Oct 20, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

i guess i should have been more constructive with my comment as well.

as mentioned already, the warriors should invest in the tactics line and bring 3-4 stances. at least one of the monks should be prot. no amount of healing can keep up with 2-3 aatxe that hit for 200-300 damage. the necro should go curses and blood, to weaken the aatxe and feed energy to the monks. the ranger should bring traps. a mesmer would be usefull as well.

as long as people know what they're doing, any party set up can be made to work.

Knight of Eternal Darknes · Oct 20, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

2 war, 3 nukers 3 monks is pretty much all you need with experienced players on how to do things, you can't take inexperienced players down there because they won't be sure what to do, just like when your running ranger trap group in uw it's always better to take experienced players and the warriors need to bring stances because there tanks not really to rely on dmg output because you got nukers

Amused Observer · Oct 21, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

very, very nice post Ix Chel.

Very informative for those who have never been to uw before.

Some mention of mesmer and necro has been made in subsequent posts, but not in depth. So let me go further. . . A 16 dom mes with chaostorm can do more damage to a bull than a 16 fire nuker with firestorm; the reason is that the bulls seem to be somewhat resistant to fire damage. Spirit of Failure is also good to use b/c it makes the bull miss 25% of the time. The mesmer should also carry an Echo (or Glyph of Renewal if ele secondary) to cast either spell twice.

A cursing necro is also helpful w/ Enfeebling blood, faintheartedness, mark of pain, price of failure, and shadow of fear.

These 2 classes are often overlooked/passed over when UW groups are formed. The presence of a member of these classes in the group will make life simpler for the healers.

MaglorD · Oct 21, 2005, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Or go with 5 rangers and instant-kill ataxes lol.

Amused Observer · Oct 21, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

or 2 monks. :P

octaviancmb · Oct 21, 2005, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Unless you're down there just to do the first couple of quests or kill smites, I cannot emphasize these next points enough:

Every Mesmer primary or secondary should take Mantra of Resolve. This is especially important for Elementalists (although they might opt to take Glyph of Concentration or Sacrifice instead) and Monks. Without a solid way to push your spells through, you're not going to get very far against Dream Riders or Mindblade Specters.
Some kind of AoE snare is very valuable in certain parts of the UW. I have much love for W/E's who carry Ward Against Foes along with their stances. Someone spec'd into Water with Deep Freeze is also a lifesaver if you cannot find a W/E. Monster AI will target the closest target when suffering from a snare.
Your group's ability to counter hexes increases in value the deeper you go into the UW. Although it's very easy to neglect hex removal due to their rarity in the first few areas, your group will survive much longer if you have it around later.
Although it's very, very tempting to carry the standard tank/healer/aoe damage dealer group, a *balanced* and *diverse* group will get further and be able to complete more quests. Of course, if you've only got 30 minutes of time, then stick with the standard group and just go take out cows and smites (there's nothing at all wrong with quick UW runs).

Good luck in your future groups!
cmb