Curse

Me NoFat · Oct 29, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Did this by chance last night. Went out with 2 Monks (heal and prot) 1 echo Ele and 2 stance W...only group I could find when I wanted to farm. The Ele got kicked when we zoned into SF...no problem lets keep going see what we can do....After about 20 min of playing and killing a boss the prot monk decided to leave. The 2 W's and myself were getting rdy to call it when I said that there was another boss just ahead...do you want to try...sure thing we killed that boss without a death....the 3 of us ended up clearing SF before the night was done...anyone else done 3 man farming in SF? I believe that 2 W and one heal Mo is a great group for it becuse the first W can start the aggro and the 2nd W can pick up the passers heading for the monk...monk just has to be careful to stay out of aggro.

2_fingers · Oct 29, 2005, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Is it possible? Yes it is.

Is it constantly possible? I doubt it. In your case the warriors were actively trying to protect u. Alot of the times however, no one comes when the monk's health starts to drop. Too many 'if's and potential pitfalls that can arise from a pug if u ask me. Probably would work great in a guild group or a bunch of friends.

Lorien of Mandos · Oct 30, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Please don't interpret my low number posts to be indiciative of me being a new player, i'm not...
Anyway, is the extra 5% (or close to it) chance of a green drop really worth forming a team that has to be hitting perfectly on all cylinders perfectly to work? My answer would have to be 'no.' I usually form 5-person teams and do Final Assault farming - you can hit something like 6 bosses (correct me if im wrong please) in approx 30 mins with a decent team. I usually look for stance W, 1 heal, 1 prot, 1 nuker, me as minions master and curses. Like I said, can usually clear the bosses from FA in about 30 mins, how long did it take to clear out with just 3 people?? With the reduced damage output due to only 3 people it seems that it would probably be a bit longer with an increased chance of dying if things go less than perfectly. Seems like an awful lot of worry over just a few %. Of course my argument just goes to hell if you are just trying this as a challenge to be overcome rather than farming for greens. If thats the case, cheers to you, and I wish you luck in perfecting the setup for a 3-person team.

EDIT: sorry for the 'tude at the start - Im not trying to start my run on these forums trying to sound like i am all uber anything...plus, you can't see number of posts here like you can on some of the other forums I post on...

Amused Observer · Oct 30, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Lorien, you come across as someone fairly experienced in farming SF. So I think the OP would excuse your "snobbish" attitude.

j/k of course

Me NoFat · Oct 30, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

no 'tude read. I appreciate the comment(s). I wasn't originally trying to do the 3 man team. Just had 2 leave. I thought it was cool that we could do it. I know there is someone out there soloing SF right now but how many of you really do that. 5 is the norm and I was just wondering if there are any cool 3 man builds out there. I am sure that I got lucky with 2 W and a Mo.

You mentioned a 5% increase. It would actually be somewhere around a 13% chance but whose counting. Also I do like a challenge...there are not too many left for me until chapter 2...besides Fissure Armor...working on that.

Art · Oct 30, 2005, 12:56 PM // 12:56

[QUOTE=You mentioned a 5% increase. It would actually be somewhere around a 13% chance but whose counting.[/QUOTE]

Your math is good but your interpretations are misleading.

If green drops are independent of party size, the issue is how many people have a chance to get one. In a 5 man party, you have a 20% chance to get any green. In a 4 man party, 25% and in 3 man 33%. 13% difference yes, BUT that means you have well over a 50% greater chance of getting a green on any particular run. 33% is more than 50% greater than 20% That means a guy that does only 3 man runs -- same number of runs as you -- will have over 50% more greens, luck being equal.

I don't know from 3 man. Its certainly possible to do a quick and smooth run with 4 man.

Lorien of Mandos · Oct 30, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

I am all for increased odds of drops, IF (and it is a big if) the overall effectiveness is not decreased. I have only tried less than 5-person farming once...I was the tank (keg holder). It didn't work out too well because I kept being interupted, I need to work on a better build. Anyway - f you ever need a N/Me to experiment with making a 3 or 4 person farm team with, I would be happy to assist - Experimentation with strategy is what keeps the game interesting imo. Look me up in game anythime, see sig for char name

stoned bob · Oct 30, 2005, 06:53 PM // 18:53

pff i farmed with me warrior and a ele and monk for 3 hours we cleaned everything and all got a greeny and about 10k in pure gold

i tried it again but with random players its hard, it really was a perfect party

Batou of Nine · Oct 31, 2005, 01:33 AM // 01:33

2 monk, 1 w/mo.

Full Heal mo, Prot and Smte mo, smite/stance w/mo. Use focus trick in SF = gg. btw, if you dont know what that trick is, it is quite simple to figure out.

Art · Oct 31, 2005, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos

Anyway - f you ever need a N/Me to experiment with making a 3 or 4 person farm team with, I would be happy to assist

I dont think a minion master (or any other nec) really belongs on a 3 person sorrows team. I've heard of it being done, but I think it'd be a tough road to walk.

4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.

Amused Observer · Oct 31, 2005, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcdain

Also I do like a challenge...there are not too many left for me until chapter 2...besides Fissure Armor...working on that.

Say that again AFTER you beat the Titan Source quest. . . w/ a 4 man party from Courthouse.

Amused Observer · Oct 31, 2005, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

I dont think a minion master (or any other nec) really belongs on a 3 person sorrows team. I've heard of it being done, but I think it'd be a tough road to walk.

4 person team a MM fits right in. I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.

N/Mo is ideal for a MM b/c of the heal area spell.

super dooper · Oct 31, 2005, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I hope you are only referring to a Minion Master with your N/Me thing. Feast of Corruption = dead crap everywhere, especially if you have 2 or more. (Necros, that is)

Lorien of Mandos · Oct 31, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

I would, however, advise changing your secondary to N/Mo N/E or N/R any of which are more effective than N/Me for a minion master. There just aren't mezz skills that really add much to the core mission of building a huge army. Don't say echo, bc glyph of renewal is better for minion master. Don't say energy drain, bc offering of blood is available without going mezz. It really is no more logical than N/W, which thankfully is a combo I never see looking for groups in sorrows. I do see N/Me and I've taken several. Without exception, they have all been extremely weak.

I use exactly 0 skills from my secondary profession - blood of master and verata's sacrifice are sufficient to heal my minions, so there is no need for me to take att point away from death, curses, or soul reaping to invest in healing to bring heal area for them. a well-placed mark of pain insures that mobs are dying fast enough that the 2 heals i do bring for my minions are effective. Ive said in other posts (maybe on different forums, i forget what I have posted where) but i just cant see a valid argument against bringing a minion necro when you are looking at a smaller party - why would you not want a party member that can summon more allies and turn the odds in your favor?

2_fingers · Oct 31, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I use cry of frustration on my mm. To stop them from using my mobs. Dun need heal area - minions dying gives me energy and i can keep them alife with VS and BoM

Art · Oct 31, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lorien of Mandos

I use exactly 0 skills from my secondary profession

Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs. Ok, your preferred use of points is in curses rather than a secondary. Not my thing personally, but I understand and respect the logic. However, what is your elite and is it better than Glyph of Energy from elementalist line which requires no points in a secondary? Perfectly suited for minion masters that use bone fiends. Also, can you spare a slot for glyph of lesser energy, also requires no points? Just some ideas that respect your focus, but might fit right in.

As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!

Sax Dakota · Nov 01, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs. Ok, your preferred use of points is in curses rather than a secondary. Not my thing personally, but I understand and respect the logic. However, what is your elite and is it better than Glyph of Energy from elementalist line which requires no points in a secondary? Perfectly suited for minion masters that use bone fiends. Also, can you spare a slot for glyph of lesser energy, also requires no points? Just some ideas that respect your focus, but might fit right in.

As for 3 person group with minion master, the problem is getting started & recovery after a wipe when your without minions. Also when doing a full clear and not final assault, since there are stretches with few fleshies (mostly ice golems). There is also that patch when doing a full clear when the minions get stuck trying to shoot through a wall and won't move unless someone nukes the mobs through the wall. And there is also, again particularly when doing a full clear, a few places where minions not focusing fire leads to a problem if there isn't an additional strong killing force. But if you can get it to work, great!

I use this build actually. My Guild and I, normally take a 4 man group. 1 war, 1 ele, 1 Minion, and 1 healer. Works great, we can even take the furnace gaurdians. There are only 3 elites that I would consider for a MM, Spiteful Spirit, Feast of Corruption, or Glyph of Energy. The problem with running spiteful and feast, is that I more than likely have to take out of my death magic and or my soul reaping. Which is not something I want to do, consider I cannot afford to have no energy. Glyph allows me to get a free bone fiend practically. I also do not need any skill points for this skill to work effectively.

2_fingers · Nov 01, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art

Ok, so we are in agreement that mesmer does not add anything much a minion master needs.

Have you ever playing a mm in a pug? Alot of the times, the players cant be bothered to take out the gnashers/binders first. This is where ur secondary, ur mesmer interupts come in EXTREMELY handy. You dun need fastcasting to disable their spells because their spells take around 2 - 3 sec to cast. (however you wont be able to interupt monks) Having that interupt is extremely useful. CoF furthermore is an aoe interupt spell meaning that if on the odd chance that there are a few necro mobs trying to take the body before u, u interupt all of them. As for elites, its really a personal choice as you dun really have energy problems if you have soul reaping and know how to read the game (i.e. well of power,simply waiting etc.)

I dun use spiteful spiri because i like a build designed for spite (a. echo + spite) - that build damage o/p is far higher with maxed curses. I rather have WoP to keep the tank and my horrors alive. But that's just a personal peferance. Some necros go BiP which is another good alternative as it pumps juice into monks. (Though good monks can keep a group of 4-5 alive under most conditions w/o BiP)

Sax Dakota · Nov 01, 2005, 06:52 AM // 06:52

only reason why I don't go BiP, is because Im already sack'ing health keeping the minions alive.

neoteo · Nov 01, 2005, 07:00 AM // 07:00

1 warrior 1 necro 1 monk

1 warrior 1 ele 1 monk

a good minium master would make it much faster then a good ele

my fav farm build is 1 w 1 m 1 e 1 n

the usual 1 w 2 m 2 e , or 1 w 2 m 1 e 1 n , makes it faster ...