Curse

Ashley Twig · Oct 25, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

You can almost bet on it: no matter how good a team is, no matter how smoothly they move thru Grenth's to the furnace, no matter how awesome they cut through the furnace mobs like a hot knife through butter: when they approach the room with the rage binders, only one out of ten teams will complete the quest.

Why is that?
Simple answer: People don't listen.

Yesterday's failed quest was another good example.
People started attacking the binders right away, once they spotted them.

me: why do you attack the binders? stop that
They: Beccause it's in the quest
me: quest sais to kill them at the same time.
They: oh.

me: don't stand that close to the door
they:why
*whammmmm*
me: that*s why

me: if we attack the guardians, try to keep moving, don't stand in one spot
for too long
they: why?
*whammmmm* *sizzzzzzle*
me: that's why

me: everybody not rezing dead team members: stay OUT of that room
they: why?
*whammmmmm*
me: ...

me: leave the bone fiends and concentrate on the guardians
they: why?
*whammmmmmmm*

It took almost 20 minutes to clean the room of patrols and guardians
Usually 5 minutes should be more than enough.

me: we need to split the team now, so we can kill the binders
they: why, just kill them one after another
me: the quest sais to kill them at the same time, they respawn too fast.
they: oh.

It takes another 10 minutes to have 4 ppl. at one and another 4 at the other door.
I explain to them that the most common strategy is, for each team to attack one binder each and go for the 3rd binder as a whole team.
I know there are other aproaches, but this one is just safest.

So my team of 4 charges for a binder.
We kill it quite fast. And what do I see on the map? The other team is still standing at their door, doing nothing?
HUH?

Needless to say, that we never made it. Too many leavers, thinking that a high DP will not do.
Though I explained quite early that a DP60 is not a factor when it comes to the Djins.

Some whacky GuildLeader who was helping out a friend on this quest calls me noob for putting a healer and a protector on the team.
I reply that it was a team decision, not mine.
He leaves.

What a mess.

unienaule · Oct 25, 2005, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Condensed version of post: PUGs suck. There's a special, hidden skill, which only reaches 60% or so at max, called PUG Forming. It's hard, and sometimes you still end up with crap. That's why you can map back and start over. Good luck with your next try.

Blackhal0 · Oct 25, 2005, 11:20 AM // 11:20

its a pretty accurate discription of most at the moment i think, im pretty much reliant on doing things with either my own guild or a couple of other reliant guilds i have found were we help each other through the relevant missions. its all the same when you go into Fow or the UW, Fow is easy with high rewards if people listen and go for targets in order, ie monk-mesmer/ele-then warrior classes but people dont listen, the amount of times i have died at the start as someone simply runs off and talks to the ghost then collectes 30 enemy now means i never form a random party for fow, uw or missions people simple seem to stupid. you ask them not do do something they do it and die then they quit on you..........

its also the reason why i do practically everything with henchies, yes they crappy but atleast they all attack the same target when called

Soal · Oct 25, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I've been trying to do FA for a while now and I've never actually made it through for all of the reasons described above. It just seems that people in this game are too full of themselves to take orders from someone else. It's very frustrating. I'll be the first to admit that I don't entirely know the area all that well, but if there is someone who does I will listen to them and do what they say. So if anyone wants a nuker who will listen to orders, whisper me sometime... I would love to go into SF with a group of non-idiots

MaglorD · Oct 26, 2005, 02:26 AM // 02:26

I tried FA with henchies and my non-minion necro but simply couldn't kill the binders fast enough so they keep respawning....sigh.

Chobby · Oct 26, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

I feel your pain. i was in a PUG and 2 Wa/Mo just aggros stuff without having to let spell casters to recover energy. Then they leave after a few death cause no one had the energy to maintain the battle and me as a ranger/monk(just for the rebirth) had to res the team a few times easily. In the end we had 5 of us with 2 henchy monks a mezzer, ranger, 1 warrior. We had to quit the ring of Fire mission half way cause we couldn't do enough damage to kill 2 monk bosses.

KaPe · Oct 26, 2005, 04:05 AM // 04:05

I never did it. Couldn't do it with henchies solo, couldn't do it with 4+4henchies and got DCed when everything was going fine in full human party. After that I said - screw that. Not to mention that trying to get people to do that quest is a joke - everyone is just farming, not questing - can't blame them, though, exp for that quest is a joke.

MaglorD · Oct 26, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chobby

I feel your pain. i was in a PUG and 2 Wa/Mo just aggros stuff without having to let spell casters to recover energy. Then they leave after a few death cause no one had the energy to maintain the battle and me as a ranger/monk(just for the rebirth) had to res the team a few times easily. In the end we had 5 of us with 2 henchy monks a mezzer, ranger, 1 warrior. We had to quit the ring of Fire mission half way cause we couldn't do enough damage to kill 2 monk bosses.

Believe me Ring of Fire is very doable with henchies. All you need is someone with interrupt skills to bring down the monk boss. FA otoh makes it such that you have to split the team into two to kill the binders before they respawn, and you can't do that if you use henchies.

I have completed FA a few times on other characters but it was always with a pug, never with henchies alone.

cataphract · Oct 26, 2005, 08:44 AM // 08:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

What a mess.

I know what you mean. I've managed to finish that quest with my r/n in after 10 tries. First of all, no one didnt want to take me on the team "because you're a ranger and rangers suck". When I got into teams they had comments aboout me running my monk support/interrupt build. Finally I got sick of begging to be accepted and my own pug. Told them the skills I'm using and why, made them take the I thought would come in handy and we finished the quest. We had a lot of trouble with the last Djinn though. He was slaughtering us because of the DP and some bad ressurecting. They even wanted to quit it and try again. Miraculously, they all listened to my "all interrupts at the start of combat" which enabled us to interrupt the Djinn's skills and kill him.

I'm now having trouble finding a team for Defend Denravi, so if any of you need a ranger on the team, whisper Andromede Amidala.

Ashley Twig · Oct 26, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

I tried FA with henchies and my non-minion necro but simply couldn't kill the binders fast enough so they keep respawning....sigh.

The theory for doing FA with a full hench team (I never managed that) is the following:
You can't run around and kill the 3 full health binders within the given respawn time.
The solution to that is: get the binders down to 5 or 10 percent of their health and attack the next. They don't recover health quickly enough, so after getting all three down to a minimum of health, you kill them one by one.

This is the theory.

Doing it with a necro, LifeTransfer or LifeSiphon might be usefull. The attacked binder will loose health even though you're already attacking another one. Which is good, because you want to keep moving while in that room.
Same might work with mesmer spells like ConjurPhantasm etc.
I know that my necro was able to kill off one binder singlehandedly.
Same goes for my ele.

So, also in theory, 3 ppl. would be enough to get the binders (not the Djins

)

The Djins are something else, but I do know, that one warrior and my nec were able to get one down with a henchteam.

And I do know that the 2 remaining Djins can be separated.
On one attempt we were even able to get one of the Djins stuck outside that room.
Because of that, it was unable to attack, so we didn't receive any dmg. from it.

What I don't get: The internet forums are full of hints about this mission.
Yet, nobody seems to read them.
On yesterdays team somebody asked: "How do you know all that"
Reply: "Internet and personal, painful experience"
question "Internet?"

Do people know that the internet exists? Sometimes I have doubts.

Wow!!!

Yamat · Oct 26, 2005, 08:11 PM // 20:11

I hear you... some people just have no clue.

I gave up trying to do FA with PUGs... it just wan't working. Now I'm helping guild members through the game so we can all do it together.

Problem is, I have 2 characters waiting there to do it, and a third almost there (he's at Abaddon's), and most of my guildies will be there with their first... *sigh*

EternalTempest · Oct 26, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Agree, have had too many failed attempts due to the reasons above.
The one that is the most is people leaving when dp is 60 or one failed attempt on the dijin. Out of all the attempts only 2 managed to kill 1 dijin and that's a close as we got.

Also to those that don't want rangers, winter makes things so much nicer later on.

Yamat · Oct 26, 2005, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Winter FTW on FA!!!

Nighteye · Oct 27, 2005, 01:10 AM // 01:10

You know, I think many people do listen to orders and cooperate well. But they pass the mission quickly and move on, leaving those who do not listen and keep on failing the mission behind.

Good cooperation is quite important, really. I once finished missions on the ring of fire isles with a team that had no monks in it, just by cooperating well.

MaglorD · Oct 27, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

This is the theory.

Doing it with a necro, LifeTransfer or LifeSiphon might be usefull. The attacked binder will loose health even though you're already attacking another one. Which is good, because you want to keep moving while in that room.
Same might work with mesmer spells like ConjurPhantasm etc.
I know that my necro was able to kill off one binder singlehandedly.
Same goes for my ele.

Actually I used suffering which doesn't degen too fast, yet when I got back to them, they were at full health. So I'm not sure it works. They somehow regen pretty fast if you're not attacking them. Maybe conjure phantasm might work.

Pik uR BuM · Oct 27, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

Gettin back to the topic...

The problem is clear and simple... the people whom have done it before think that they know what they are doing or so they think so and decides to think for themself.
True...everyone does need to think for themself but also include the group. The point is that in order to succed... it group/team needs to work together. Only those whom havent done it before tends to listen. But when you have a few people doing there own thing...it makes it harder for those that are trying to make a team effort work harder.
Personal when i did FA with a group, we succed because our group listen to each other...each person contributed to our win...wether it was listen to orders or giving advice on what best to do in certain situation.
Doing it with a guild or friends does help because its more easier to coperate, but in a situation were u dont have thos things... the best thing is to do is get people who will listen at war camp when you ask them to put on certain spells/skills and listen to your judgement. If you think there not a team player, then lose them and get another person.

cataphract · Oct 28, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

question "Internet?"

everything's ok until you get this reply "teh Interweb? OMG WTF LOL kthxbai"

Ashley Twig · Oct 28, 2005, 06:41 AM // 06:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaglorD

Maybe conjure phantasm might work.

Tried that. Wouldn't work too good.

I tried it with 1 other real person and 6 hench again.
Nobody died (except Eve once) until we got to the binder room.

The binders (with 2 real ppl) was sort of "piece of cake".
Trouble part was the patrol that has two priests.

But the Djins, my oh my. The hench don't want to stay close enough to it.
And the other real person. Well, maybe it was a misunderstanding, but he wouldn't want to touch the Djin either (eek

)
He was standing too far away from it. And then he had to go and help some friends.
But for some reason the quest didn't give me the frustration it usually does.
Maybe because there now is one more person in GW, who knows (in theory) how the quest is done.

Bummer is, I have 6 chars (spread over 2 accounts) and except for my ele and my warrior, the other 4 already did FA.

So, if anybody here is playing on eurpean servers: Ask Ocean Rivers for FA. She desperately wants to do that quest with decent people.

cataphract · Oct 28, 2005, 07:05 AM // 07:05

i would gladly join you but i need to finish those babysitting the dwarves quests with my ele or monk first. but if you're doing defend north kryta and need a ranger, whisper Andromede Amidala.

Battle Torn · Oct 28, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

I finished this quest first time, mainly because the guy leading it explained everything clearly and everyone followed. Ive tried helping with this quest a few times and gave up because in order for good instructions to be good they need to be followed and too many people dont speak english and cant understand come here, close together, get over here or anything else including pinging the map. A recent try we had one guy in our team and whenhe didnt understand anything we said so we tried organizing the last bit by crowding round him and he kept running off...he was a monk...omfg!