Curse

IIIPowerIII · Nov 21, 2005, 09:59 PM // 21:59

You could get a monk healer/prot/smiting. 1 monk can do the job easy, it can smite with balt aura/zealot fire, prot with lifebond/life barrier, heal with dwayna kiss and healing seed. The other smite skill the stance turn to stance/smiting tank. It will be as fast as before, and better drop :P

Favorable wind will only affect the ranger, winnowing will affect both.

Bel Ebih · Nov 22, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazamafury

I would love to have a ranger on my team.

I usually try to form this.

1. W/Mo tank
2. N/Mo Minion Master, Fiends only, bring a well of profane, BiP/Spiteful
3. A bow ranger with favorable and winnowing and barrage as their elite. Both damage dealers will benefit from these spirits and the fiends damage is just insane.
4. Monk Healer/Smite
5. Prot

Unfortunately, I have trouble finding people willing to give this a try and if they do, they leave too soon. Spread the word! I just find Elementalist pugs more trouble than their worth (a big portion of them). They will get angry if they die and their AoE just sends the mobs in different directions and sometimes ends up in a wipe. And big surprise, the elementalist will be the one that leaves the game before he spams "noobs, why did you let me die."

This may be off-topic but...

Whoa! That's a lot to ask from a Necro. A real MM will not use Fiends only as alternating Fiends/Horros is what fast summoning is all about. WotP is great, but when doing MM you want all corpses for summoning unless you want to bring WoB to help keep your minions alive. Finally, SS or BiP is not really worth it at all if not dedicated to it. Since to be a great MM you need max Death, high or max SR, theres not much left for anything... and since you ask for a N/Mo I imagine you expect him to use Heal Area... That Necro is gonna need about 300 Att Points to pull that off. So take either a MM, an Echo SS, or a Battery, or your gonna have one half-asssed, not to mention confused Necro with you... Oh yah, and FW doesn't work with Fiends... people really need to understand that.

As far as dmg dealers in SF, I've done Barrager + Echo SS, Barrage + MM, Echo SS + MM, and all have worked out very well. Also, Eles aren't that bad if they're smart. Fire/Water or Air spiker Eles work just as well with either of the other 3 damage dealers I mentioned.

capblueberry · Nov 22, 2005, 12:39 AM // 00:39

rangers rule because they can trap

!!!

Frost_ · Nov 22, 2005, 01:20 AM // 01:20

i bring 3 rangers, 1 mesmer, 1 tank and 3 monks to fow

KaPe · Nov 22, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Where have I seen this before? Let me think... Oh, I know, similiar thread was about Mesmers. And what was the conclussion? "People who don't take us into groups suck, we are great and they're too stupid to realize that". Nothing against rangers and I certainly don't avoid partying with them - but I hate such attitude.
It's just like with Mesmers - there is a lot of Rangers who suck. Their builds seem like random skills thrown together and don't really add anything to group. Bad Monk will still heal and ressurect, bad Ele will still do damage to multiple mobs, but bad Ranger will only fire these pitifully weak arrows(remember, *bad* one), chipping away at monsters hp, making party leader wonder why didn't he take another "nuker".
Edit: Oh yeah, and while traps are great way to deal with stronger groups, most of the time you could simply hack your way through, without wasting couple of minutes until all traps are set. Now, if enemies were bit more challenging, it would actually make sense to lure them into traps.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 22, 2005, 10:40 AM // 10:40

spoken like a true a-hole, instead of cursing at the ranger, teach him to not suck, if he is a newb i think he will head your advice
and that bad ele will mess up the mobs for everyone else, and the bad monk will use the wrong heals and wrong res to increase the dp, and the bad warrior will run head first into a group they cannot take and then lure the monsters into the casters, and the bad necro will use horrors or just waste corpses with useless crap, and the bad mesmer will do no damage and cast the wrong hexes on the wrong mobs, and the bad ranger will do no damage

Kazamafury · Nov 22, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by IIIPowerIII

You could get a monk healer/prot/smiting. 1 monk can do the job easy, it can smite with balt aura/zealot fire, prot with lifebond/life barrier, heal with dwayna kiss and healing seed. The other smite skill the stance turn to stance/smiting tank. It will be as fast as before, and better drop :P

Favorable wind will only affect the ranger, winnowing will affect both.

I was unaware Favorable only affects the ranger. Now I do know. One monk might be able to do it, as it may be, but I have the healer bring shield of judgement as an elite and both monks brings Smite Hex. More damage, less time it takes to go through. And I don't use balt's aura and zealot's fire anymore because mobs spread to apart to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bel Ebih

This may be off-topic but...

Whoa! That's a lot to ask from a Necro. A real MM will not use Fiends only as alternating Fiends/Horros is what fast summoning is all about. WotP is great, but when doing MM you want all corpses for summoning unless you want to bring WoB to help keep your minions alive. Finally, SS or BiP is not really worth it at all if not dedicated to it. Since to be a great MM you need max Death, high or max SR, theres not much left for anything... and since you ask for a N/Mo I imagine you expect him to use Heal Area... That Necro is gonna need about 300 Att Points to pull that off. So take either a MM, an Echo SS, or a Battery, or your gonna have one half-asssed.

I am sorry, I wasn't under the impression that there are 'fake' minion masters out there. Or there is a fixed type of necro build to actually be 'great' and everything else is below the norm. And by that post, I find it ironic that you mention people need to learn things but you are unwilling to. Your necro idea works I agree, but others have their own necro builds that works just as well, just differently. I can assure you, the build that I've been using it quite reasonable. In addition, it works pretty well even without Winnowing since this is the reason why I posted here in the first place, can't party with a ranger. Just like people learn Favorable Winds doesn't work with Fiends, people can also learn that Fiends only can do a pretty good job as well if the whole build is used properly. And no, it doesn't take a rocket science to know how to play it, so no need to worry about any confused necro out there. If he is confused, then I suggest he brings whatever he feels comforable and if he mentions a build with fiends and minions, sure why not, it works too.

Actually that is a wrong way to look at things, saving all the corpses possible. Throwing a WotP up is not used everytime you can recharge it, now that would be a silly way to use it. WotP is used to deal with life attunement and mark of protection. Basically we overwhelm the Monk boss with the damage coming from both damage dealers (the fiends and ranger) which usually results in a death or two, drop profane, switch to monk boss right away. By using it smartly, this can even out more than just having one fiend because you basically remove the whole stalemate aspect on the monk boss at times that you might encounter and saves your current minions from life degen. Think tombs, would you summon a minion from a corpse at the alter or a WotP? If you brought WotP, would you be casting it every time it recharges if you were a MM?

But I do use the idea of saving all the corpses possible to bring up as many fiends as possible. Yes a corpse or two might slip out because a dark binder survived, but most of the time, all the corpses will be used to make fiends and I assure you, this does happen. Believe it or not.

An Echo SS is a completely different build entirely so I won't even address that. Actually BiP can do pretty well unless you think +5 energy pips is not sufficient. Again, I can assure you, it is definitely useful. You are able to do all the things you are doing while helping your caster teammates with a decent energy pool. I usually use this when I PvE, so naturally I brought it to my SF Farming. I suggested SS for the current necro build is because I try to bring as much damage as possible while still be able to sustain. I use Rotting Flesh as an opener (not on the gnasher) to get corpses up as soon as possible, so I thought maybe SS will work out better since I don't very much use BiP inside SF. If you have a better idea for an elite, I am all ears/eyes.

KaPe · Nov 22, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

spoken like a true a-hole, (...)

Yep, it's like Mesmer discussion all over, same arguments. Where do I "curse" at ranger? Why am *I* supposed to teach them how to play? I do my job and don't ask for advice, unless I really screw up and I expect the same from them. They fail quite a few times, since Ranger is not as obvious job as Ele or War - but so do other jobs, so do not try to make me some sort of "anti-ranger". *Read*.

Bel Ebih · Nov 22, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

1. Yes, there are 'fake' MM, altough I just call them half-asssed. Those that don't max their Death, only bring one summon, and dedicate only 1-2 slots to it. Same thing with half-asssed BM that only bring Charm Animal and put little points into BM.

2. There are no fixed builds for anything. A lot of people do minions differently to the same great effect, but as I've seen, no matter the build, to be really effective you need max Death, high SR, and both Fiends and Horrors since when multiple foes go down, summoning only Fiends one at time will really drag you down, unless you're happy with just 6-7...

3. Yes, WotP is great. No question about that. I simply prefer not to use it when farming. Tombs is whole different thing since I never use minions there unless it's part of my teams build. There it really is WotP+WoS ftw.

4. I simply don't do BiP since I don't use N/Mo Heal Area build and the Monks already have to heal my Veratas and BotM, so another 33% sacrifice will just negate most of the benifit they may gain from my use of it.

5. I don't use SS because for that to be worth it imo, you have to be dedicated to it (pref 15-16 Curse), and I would rather use that costly 15 energy on summoning or keeping my minions alive. Plus I already use another Elite...

6. My Elite is Glyph of Renewal. I don't need to spend attribute points on it so I can always go 16 Death, 13 SR, and 4 Blood (for Dark Bond). It lets me always keep Veratas up since I can use it right after I count the 21 seconds and not have to wait the 30sec recharge. It also lets me summon faster when multiple foes drop since I can do 2 Fiends and 1 Horror without any recharge down time. And even then it's not always enough since sometimes 5+ foes drop at the same time and it's hard to keep up. Soooo... I really don't understand how someone can go by with Fiends only and doing Battery or Curses at the same time, unless like I said, you're happy with just 6-7 at most.

I also want to comment that it's obviously not that I'm not willing to learn since all these things I have... duh, learned through experience and experimentation. In fact, I never said that people need to 'learn' anything anyway, since I just said ppl need to understand that FW doesn't work with Fiends, a fact that should be pretty clear by now.

Also, all of this is based on the idea that spreading your attribute points too thin will let you be a jack of all trades but master of none as some say. That's pretty much common sense I think.

Note: When I say 'minions' I am refering to summons in general, not actual Bone Minions. Those I only use when bombing.

Xue Yi Liang · Nov 22, 2005, 10:05 PM // 22:05

.... because we don't like yer kind, ranger-fella ... (j/k) it's tougher to be a mesmer ....

DarkSider84 · Nov 22, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

You're pretty much inviting flames, but since someone's bound to reply with the correct answer I'm letting this stay for now. However, I will warn you not to say "(insert name here) sucks" again because that is pretty much flamebait, and I will delete the next post I see starting out like that.

Keep replies/flames to a minimum, please.

I beg to differ, rangers have a wide variety of skills, from pulling, trapping, caster interrupting and high damage, just take a look at some of the build out there and you will see how powerful they can actually be.

leeky baby · Nov 23, 2005, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

rangers suck, they dont do enough damage, its hard for them to 1-1 a mob at there lvl. they just good at healing self, area auras, and watching the pet die. The only thing good about them is poisoning the enemy, but other classes can do that also. However, elementalist, they do MASSIVE damage, why do you think a group of 3 hydras own you on sight? Meteor with 90+ dmg?
That is just MY OPINION to your question why rangers are never picked to do farm runs. I would not invite a ranger to do farm run with me.

Urm dude i can 1 on 1 any char with my ranger,we just intupt every attack they do and kill them.easy also we r the only proffesion who can do any good in the UW apart from uber monks but they sort of been nerfed.

tlr1293 · Nov 23, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Well, I play a Ranger - have form day 1. I can say that it is THE hardest profession to pay. It is also the most versitile, less 'pure' profession in GW.

Less 'pure'?
- can tank, but not as good as a Warrior
- can curse and poison, etc..., but not as good as a Necro
- can interupt and steal energy, but not as good as a Mesmer
- can handle a bit of healing, but only self and not others so nowhere near as good as a Monk
- has some spells with elements but does not have the control over them that Elementalists do.
- has this added ability to have a pet, but having a pet is pretty much 'all or nothing'

I love the diversity of a Ranger (trapper, disruptor, beast master, runner, pyro, etc...). The ONLY thing I hate about a Ranger is Energy management. Without any items in-hand - I can get a max of 32 Energy for a Ranger. Yes, Expertise is supposed to help, but 'cool-downs' take too long. I'm at 14 in Expertise, and if I had just 5 more Energy - I could be near unstoppable in PvP or PvE.

I had a nice comment the other day as 2 guildies and I went into SF to help one of them with the High Priest Quest. 3 of us and 5 Henchies. After the second Crystal, we come to a tough part and both Necros go down, I have no time to Res them as we have full-on aggro AND the Priest is under attack...as I handle the interupts, Energy, calling of targets for the Henchies, and timing of what opponant to take out when, I saw one of the Guildies type: I think he might just be able to do this on his own.

What a nice compliment. I did do that quest with only henchies, awhile ago, but it was nice to see that, while helping another get it done, that someone could acknowledge a good Ranger when they see one. We finished and I had the least DP at -48%. Devona died more times than Mhenlo - could hardly believe it.

My point...good Rangers are hard to find, but when you find one - hold him/her close, as they are invaluable in all facets of the game.

Mort · Nov 23, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

rangers suck, they dont do enough damage, its hard for them to 1-1 a mob at there lvl. they just good at healing self, area auras, and watching the pet die. The only thing good about them is poisoning the enemy, but other classes can do that also. However, elementalist, they do MASSIVE damage, why do you think a group of 3 hydras own you on sight? Meteor with 90+ dmg?
That is just MY OPINION to your question why rangers are never picked to do farm runs. I would not invite a ranger to do farm run with me.

If you had a good ranger in your group that Hydra wouldn't get one of those meteors off since elementalists are very easy to shut down with a simple interupt skill. If set up correctly a ranger can do a TON of damage quickly.

I love PVE... I have 6 chars across 2 accounts. One of each primary profession. Let me tell you. I cant decide which class is the best or the worst. They are all great if played correctly. Just some professions are easier to learn than others. Its not the class but the skill of the user that makes a char useful in the game.

If you really want to join a 5 man farming group. A good ranger, Alesia, Lina, Devona, and Eve make a pretty good team!

reboot · Nov 23, 2005, 08:35 PM // 20:35

Why aren't rangers picked?

look at whos in these farm groups.

most of the prot monks I see dont use mantra of insciptions for the bond+barrier combo.

most of the heal monks have no energy mangament. And excpect the necro to bring it.

most of the warriors tanks think gladiators defense is better then shield oh judgement, when the truth is if the prot monk is decent the warrior dosent even need any stances.

most of the minion masters are actually ok, who knows why, i guess necro class attracts more skilled players with higher intelligence.

Last but not least, Ele....the main reason you Rangers arnt picked. Most eles have really bad builds, just ask one, it is a good laUGH.

The facts are mesmers and rangers are just as good as ele for a primary damage dealer class. the Secondary makes most of the difference in damage and thats goes into making a build...Look at all the examples i just listed of bad builds that are the majority of farmers...thats why you don't get picked, Farmers dont understand builds, they cant make a good ranger build(or any build) so they assume rangers "SUX."

i can make a mes/ele or ranger/ele or ranger/monk or mes/nec that does more damage then the "average" fire ele.. and fire eles - glyph of renewal > archane echo....

D E A D S Y · Nov 23, 2005, 10:46 PM // 22:46

ah didn't expect so many replies. i do agree with many of you, though.

quanzong · Nov 24, 2005, 06:21 AM // 06:21

whaa...? i thought this thread was about how rangers never get picked to go 5 man farming in SF. Not PvP. I played ranger in PvP, I know the barbed trap skill deal. Rangers are good casting interupters, but mesmers are better, they do have fast casting. Basically ranger just good for poisoning foe, but besides that, any class can do what it offers. knockdown is also considered interupting skills.

reboot · Nov 24, 2005, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by quanzong

whaa...? i thought this thread was about how rangers never get picked to go 5 man farming in SF. Not PvP. I played ranger in PvP, I know the barbed trap skill deal. Rangers are good casting interupters, but mesmers are better, they do have fast casting. Basically ranger just good for poisoning foe, but besides that, any class can do what it offers. knockdown is also considered interupting skills.

Your point of view though sadly mistaken is popular among farmers.

You don't know who to deal 100 damage with conjure flame and kindle arrows per arrow or even 70 aoe every 2 seconds with barrage and judges insight.

boxterduke · Nov 24, 2005, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Rangers and Mesmers do not get picked because the people who are refusing to add them to the group are noobs themselves and no nothing about the power of a mesmer or a ranger.
I say their loss, thats why you never see my mesmer asking people to add her to a group. I do missions and quests with henches and if they are hard then with friends and guildies.
To think about it so does my other characters. I have not played in a PUG for the longest time. Man thats why I'm relaxed and have not cursed for the longest time.

Maxiemonster · Nov 24, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

I hate Rangers, they always own me in Competition Arena

Nah, I usually invite everything I can, Necromancer, Mesmers and Rangers are all very good, but noone knows for some reason.. And if I ever see you, I'll invite you!