Curse

Epinephrine · Nov 18, 2005, 07:31 PM // 19:31

MM is best done with 2 necoros. Yup

I ran 16 death, 15 soul.
Partner ran 16 curses, 9 Soul, 13 Death.

My job - crank out minions, keep the ball rolling, Verata's sacrifice, Blood of the Master; I don't remember if Animate Bone horror made it onto my skillbar, but I know Fiends and Minions did. I used a focus with reduced energy regeneration and boosted my pool (I'd have done the wand too, but didn't have one) as the energy regen pales compared to the Soul Reaping, and I hate overflowing my energy pool.
His job, curses to make minions hit hard, where it matters. Death novas when he has time. Verata's Sacrifice alternately with mine, to maintain a constant 10 pips of regen on them. He might have had Blood of the Master too.

With two necros pumping the heals and 16 curses being used to speed destruction it was an unstoppable army. We tore Mursaat apart in seconds. If you ever want to have a ton of fun, hook up with another necro to do this.

Volarian · Nov 18, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Art thank you from this side as well - many would have read my post and immediately thought I was flaming or being a dik.

To all from that point on - Yes the MM has a very specific job and is why he's in the party<--emphasis on that last word. Healers for healing (all party members including minions when able), Tanks for taking the agro and allowing my lil headless shrimp to spit at them all day long, and then ME.....to raise as many minions as humanly possible and keep them going/coming.
I have diff skills to swap out depending on the party makeup - with Nuker I bring BiP and drop MoP for heal area.
...have to laugh with evil joy @ Art - -24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24-24.....is a lovely site isnt it!!??!!<--have you taken that theory to the Fissure (with tank holding book) and max out curses?? w@@w..throw in a lil Spiteful Spirit, Enfeebling Blood and the like.....the shadow knows they just got their asses handed to them. Yes its AOE but I've noticed they come right back to the kegger so it's not too bad and the minions are still attacking them anyway.
True a MM should be doing one thing - but unless you get cooperative pplp that you can discuss/agree on skills/builds.......you should always play with others in mind.....thinking outside the build/box.

Carinae · Nov 18, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Can you run Minions in FoW/UW? I have never tried that because it just didn't seem like a good idea. The monsters hitting for 230+ points seems like they'll wipe minions pretty easily.

@Epi - Might want that second necro to pack Verata's Aura (just in case)

Volarian · Nov 18, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Ahh I was too vague - no, no minions in FoW

My comment was referring to the Curses/MoP-Spiteful Spirit dmg capabilities when you have a stance tank holding the book in Fissure and others in party doing direct physical dmg

at max you see -40's+ everywhere on your screen rather than -24

Since the AOE update you get around 2-3 rounds of -40s before mobs back off then come back in so the key is to call your parties target with MoP, then switch on your own to another target and lay SPiteful on it.....the screenshots are Mahvelous!!

and yes the 2 Nec group is wonderful - 2nd necro brings VS + BoM to assist with minion upkeep.

2_fingers · Nov 19, 2005, 08:34 AM // 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

MM is best done with 2 necoros. Yup

I ran 16 death, 15 soul.
Partner ran 16 curses, 9 Soul, 13 Death.

That's the my regular build when i farm in furnace. I echo the SS and bring along barbs defile flesh suffering backfire descreate MoP Barbs.

At lvl 16 curse

Barbs = 11 extra dmg per physical hit
SS = 37 aoe dmg
Desecrate = 60-100 dmg
MoP 42.

Just need to get mop in, let a few minions hit the target and in 2 hits, massive corpses.

I dont agree with not bringing OoB, or heal area. I think keeping the minions alive as long as possible is worth it. And the extra energy helps u do both. However, that's my opinion, and i know that OoB and Heal Area works really well so i cant be bothered to change my mm build.

With a good MM, the dps is insane. To the point where the dps is more like the dmg from a few air spikers.

XvArchonvX · Nov 20, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Here is my MM build that I use very successfully in farming SF. Keep in mind that secondary really doesn't matter, as all necro skills are generally used.

Suggested Weapons:

Morgiff's staff
- gives fast recharge with skills

Cane w/ energy +12 or higher and energy regen -1
- switch to this weapon when energy is low to have a larger energy storage, then switch back to the staff to get ur regen back

Max offhand item, maybe even Bortak's Bone Cesta (wish I had that)

Skills:

1) Deathly Chill
2) Verata's Gaze
3) Animate Bone Minions
4) Animate Bone Fiends
5) Verata's Sacrifice
6) Blood of the master
7) Offering of Blood
8) rez sig or rebirth depending on preference or secondary

Ok, here's how it works.

Deathly chills is just to do dmg before you get your army running.

Verata's Gaze is primarily for outside SF to gain control of any enemy bone fiends the gnashers may raise of they animate before you do.

Animate Bone Minions is a backup animate skill to be used really only when animate bone fiends is regen and if you want some batteries to give you energy when they die.

Animate Bone Fiends is what you should primarily make your army out of since they are higher lvl than minions, do more dmg, can start attacking faster than minions, and don't stand around when you have a bunch of allies or other minions in the way of an enemy you are attacking

Verata's Sacrifice is of course to keep your fiends alive. Use this as often as possible to keep your army alive and building

Blood of the Master is used when Verata's Sacrifice is recharging or when your fiends are in battle. This will again keep them alive longer.

Offering of Blood is used because it has a faster recharge time than Energy Tap or Energy Drain and has a very fast cast time. Use this of course to gain energy when youa re low.

Rez sig or Rebirth of course to ressurect allies (after you use their corpse of course, heh)

Runes:

Superior Death
Major Vigor or better
Minor Blood

Attributes (including runes):

Blood Magic: 5
Death Magic: 16
Soul Reaping: 12

Hope this helps you.

swordfisher · Nov 21, 2005, 12:27 AM // 00:27

I started my minion master a week ago (a day or two after the aoe nerf), and I've had great success with it. My present build uses two sups and a major to bring my attributes to -

16 death 305 health
13 blood 48 energy (tattoos)
9 reaping
6 other

I've found that the best items are actually the desert collectors wand and offhand, which give together 20% casting and 20% + 20% recharge (not the same as 40% recharge, mind you). The bonus to recharge means I'm able to keep Veratas up most of the time, and can rapidly summon fiend after fiend in a battle.

Personally, I've been surprised at the number of people who use OoB with what I consider extremely low blood- at 13 blood it nets 13 energy, a significant addition to my pool in times of need (or roughly every 15 seconds...I strive towards maximal efficiency). What makes my build interesting in my eyes is that I also use two blood nukes- vampiric gaze and dark pact. Gaze steals 54 life every 5 seconds, pact hits for 45 (number is off, but close) and sacs 10% life, recharging every two seconds. You'll notice that because of my atypically low life, pact is saccing me for about 30...and recharges twice for every gaze. This way I can stay at a stable health while outputting a fair amount of damage, indefinitely. In a battle I use these nukes to kill one enemy first, gain his 9 energy soul reap, and raise him...it allows me to have some control over the flow of energy coming to me through soul reaping (I hate to not benefit because I was at max energy already). I also use Blood Renewal, but I consider it the weakest part of my build, as it's killed me as often as it's saved me (33% sac + 100 pt cleave ftw).

As for my death skills, I use a basic setup- fiends blood veratas. I don't use a second animate because I my fiends are usually fast-recharging, and because fiends rock your socks.

If you're keeping track at home, I've named seven skills. I typically go N/me and put my 6 points in inspiration so as to use power drain. It nets me eight energy, but the real use is interrupting wells and fiends (and anything else I can stop, every 25 seconds). I have also used power spike (for it's 15 second recharge) and prot spirit (lasts for 12 seconds at 6 prot, occasionally saved my 305 health ass)- but find that the low cost and power return of drain is best suited to my needs (though I'm almost always at high/max energy when I use drain, seeing as I'm taking a moment to not cast a fiend but instead wait for the gnasher/binder to start his).

Though I have a 15/-1 wand and offhand, I have found that having 78 energy is not as much use to this build as it would be to another build with less control over its energy income (namely a high reaper).

If anyone has a suggestion for a skill to use instead of blood renewal, or any suggestions at all, I'd love to hear them. If anyone has a Bortak bone cesta they want to sell me, I'd love to buy it (it's just a vanity thing, but I think having level 19 fiends will be the final proof of pwnage). And finally, I love you all. Especially your bones.

-The Dreaming Void.

RobotMULE · Nov 21, 2005, 12:38 AM // 00:38

Although minions are great, I personally think Curses are best for FA. Spiteful spirit, suffering, and desecrate enchantments are great for a large group of enemies (if using keg). If using mesmer secondary, then arcane echo and sympathetic visage are nice too. And they dont scatter the enemies like many AoE skills.

Mako · Nov 21, 2005, 01:09 AM // 01:09

5-6 man SF farming has become far more challenging since the AI update, really so taste of death is a must and if you are doing keg/gear farming on the way to the furnace in GF its much easier just to raise horrors, put death nova on them - then taste of death when you feel the time is right for some nice damage to the crowd, then once the tank has gear or keg inside raise nothing but feinds for an army of damage since the enemies wont attack them. Also Tainted flesh works well with keg/gear farm

Siren Danica · Nov 22, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

I don't see it mentioned in this thread, and this basically goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway.

Use Bloodstained boots... (they reduce casting time on death spells)

With them, if you are quick, you will beat the Gnashers to the punch every time. Without them, they will often beat you, and there's nothing more frustrating than that.

Carinae · Nov 22, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren Danica

Use Bloodstained boots... (they reduce casting time on death spells)

They don't do anything. There are threads about them here, Search for them.

XvArchonvX · Nov 22, 2005, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren Danica

I don't see it mentioned in this thread, and this basically goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway.

Use Bloodstained boots... (they reduce casting time on death spells)

With them, if you are quick, you will beat the Gnashers to the punch every time. Without them, they will often beat you, and there's nothing more frustrating than that.

Ahh yes, forgot to mention that. However if you do ever lose a corpse to a gnasher there is always Verata's gaze and Verata's Aura.

Siren Danica · Nov 22, 2005, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

They don't do anything. There are threads about them here, Search for them.

I've seen the threads and don't need to search for them. It wasn't mentioned in this thread so I mentioned it. I feel like I can't even post something here without someone jumping on it. It's discussion, isn't it?

But, I guarantee they cast faster death spells. The other threads are wrong if they say otherwise. Even if it's only a .2 second improvement, that's all you need to beat the Gnasher who's trying to raise minions himself. I don't do a lot of experimenting, but this is one thing I did experiment with.

I have a MM build that may not be the best, since like I said, I haven't done a lot of experimenting, but this one works for me in SF very well:

Blood 12+2
Death 12+1
Soul Reaping 7+1

Animate Bone Horrors
Verata's Sacrifice
Life Siphon
Vampiric Gaze
Shadow Strike
Awaken The Blood
Blood Renewal
Offering of Blood

I realize the horrors are only level 16 with that death attribute, but with Blood Renewal and the 3 Blood damage spells, this build keeps you alive, which is most important when you have an army. And this is also an offensive build, where you can do pretty good damage even when no corpses are to be had.

A picture is worth you know what, and here's the proof that this is an effective SF farm build:

drago.jpg

That drop alone was worth 75K, and it allowed me to swap the 1.5K Necrotic armor pictured here for the 15K Grotto Necrotic armor.

Carinae · Nov 22, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren Danica

I feel like I can't even post something here without someone jumping on it. It's discussion, isn't it?

I wasn't jumping on you, just din't know if you'd seen them.

Siren Danica · Nov 22, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

I wasn't jumping on you, just din't know if you'd seen them.

Sorry for the accusation then... I'm overly sensitive today for some reason I guess.

As far as the bloodstained boots threads, I did see one where someone mentioned a figure of .1 -.2 second improvement in death casting spell time. Not sure if that's official, or just a guess. Have the developers ever documented what the improvement is *supposed* to be?

Carinae · Nov 22, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren Danica

As far as the bloodstained boots threads, I did see one where someone mentioned a figure of .1 -.2 second improvement in death casting spell time. Not sure if that's official, or just a guess. Have the developers ever documented what the improvement is *supposed* to be?

No. And it would be greatly appreciated if they did tell us what their exact function is. This is as close to official as we have currently:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...t=bloodstained

Damon Windwalker · Nov 22, 2005, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Just to weigh in on something...

I see a lot of people talking about running fiends - but personally, I prefer horrors. I can raise more, and faster, because of the lower energy cost. I can maintain a lot more horrors than I can fiends - and while individually they do less damage, when considering the numbers I can raise and maintain, they do more...

But - I'm not saying my way is better - just that it works better for me that way....

Food for thought.

Siren Danica · Nov 22, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Windwalker

Just to weigh in on something...

I see a lot of people talking about running fiends - but personally, I prefer horrors. I can raise more, and faster, because of the lower energy cost. I can maintain a lot more horrors than I can fiends - and while individually they do less damage, when considering the numbers I can raise and maintain, they do more...

Personally, I agree with you. I tried minions and fiends, but found I was having way too many energy issues.

You say you can raise and maintain more horrors than fiends or minions - how big would you say your biggest army has been?

Here's a pic of a small army on Perdition Rock - I think I count 10 horrors.

horrors.jpg

That's about the most I've ever had at one time on Perdition Rock (using henchmen). But it seems if you were in a group of real players with some good damage dealers, there would be more corpses to exploit faster, right?

XvArchonvX · Nov 23, 2005, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siren Danica

Personally, I agree with you. I tried minions and fiends, but found I was having way too many energy issues.

You say you can raise and maintain more horrors than fiends or minions - how big would you say your biggest army has been?

Here's a pic of a small army on Perdition Rock - I think I count 10 horrors.

Attachment 8732

That's about the most I've ever had at one time on Perdition Rock (using henchmen). But it seems if you were in a group of real players with some good damage dealers, there would be more corpses to exploit faster, right?

If you are having energy problems I would suggest what I had mentioned in the descriotion of my build which would be to include Offering of Blood and to have an energy +12 or better cesta/rod/whatever with a max offhand item to switch to when OoB is recharging or when you are low on health.

As for the whole horror vs minion vs fiends debate, I personally prefer fiends, but the use of both fiends and minions/horrors is a necessity to keep the corpses rising when there is a large battle and to keep corpses from Gnashers and Binders...

Oh and also, it is possible to raise a much larger army than that (corpses permitting of course), so if it's a large sized army you are going for look around for some ways to tweak your build. Once you get it right you will probably surprise yourself. If you ever want to try to get as big of an army as possible, do Orozar's quest in SF with henchies or a good full group. It's fun. ^_^

AlphaSt0rm · Nov 23, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Dual necros with Spiteful in FA/SF is so helpful. Though when it comes to killing the monk/mesmer bosses, it's kind of hard to deal enough damage. Enemies dont run away from spiteful

even though its kinda like an AoE effect.