Curse

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 15, 2005, 06:11 AM // 06:11

I've read these boards for a while, and have seen one complaint time and time again that rarely gets addressed positively. You've seen it (I suppose...), I've seen it: all those monks/elems/war's complaining about how they can't beat Thunderhead, regardless of how many healers and nukers they bring.

Sure, you can bring 3 monks, 3 elems, and 2 warriors, and hope for the best; as this party "technically" should not have any problem with the mission. However, as most people have seen, listening turns into ignoring; ultimately finding the nearest monk or warrior as the scapegoat.

This mission should not be hard, yet people "believe" that it is. If you have had trouble with this mission, or are currently struggling with the aspects of accomplishing it, I suggest that you take a minute and look at what I have to tell you.
If you have no problem with this mission then, by all means, criticise my tactics and tell me why your strat works better. However, I beg of you, constructive criticism is far more beneficial than calling this post a complete waste of bandwidth.
Also, I am aware that there may be other threads on exactly what I am posting. If so, this is in addition to those strategies, and I hope that it is able to help anyone who still tends to have trouble accomplishing this mission with any "decent" group.

**Spoiler Alert**
just in case...

Rather than using a cut/paste group consisting of monks/wars/eles, look around. It is great to have two healing monks, as the King may come into harms way as your group fights into the early part of the mission.

Reasons to bring these classes. My oppinions...

Two warriors.
This helps keep some mobs off of your lighter armored allies, and can obviously help hold off the Jades in the latter parts.
One/Two Monks.
Healing. You don't need much protection in this mission, other than the lackluster amount of Jades that rush you in the keep.
One Necro.
Wells. Enough said. Ask them if they have Well of Power and Well of Blood, as both of these can help dramatically in keeping your warriors alive, and keeping your spellcasters a little higher in that blue bar.
One/Two Rangers.
Often overlooked (other than their trapping), a ranger can be effective. Simply enough, one ranger can talk to the King, keeping him back for part of the fight while he applies his preperations. They can also be useful in interrupting some of the named mobs later in the mission.
One/Two Elementalists.
Have them use fire, as this tends to hurt the larger groups much more than any other element. I don't need to tell you why they are needed, as their damage speaks for itself.
One Mesmer.
If anything, you will want a Mesmer in your group. Like the ranger and necro, they are often overlooked because "support" tends to be ignored in comparison to healing/damage. Domination can really assist you when defending the keep, as they can easily cripple and interrupt the strongest of targets.

Basically, you want to bring sufficient healing, tanking, support, and damage. A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

Starting:
Assuming this is your group, as these classes should not be too hard to find with 5 minutes of waiting.

Two Warriors
One Necro
Two Monks
One Mesmer
Two Elementalists

With their popularity, one of the warriors is a W/Mo. Have them max their weapon, shield stat if need be, and as many into healing to get mend to +3 (9 I belive). The warrior hits the King with a Mend, and keeps it on him for the entire mission. Perhaps they focus on adrenaline, so energy isn't too much of a problem with keeping mend up.

Have a spell-caster (not monk) grab the King. This will help keep the king out of harms way (hopefully), and prevent him from taking too many hits early on. The reason I keep him off of a monk is because the monk will be running around, spamming warriors and the group with heals. In this situation, the King can go wherever, which is not what you need when you are clearing the keep.

Move out slowly, and have one person barking orders. Designate this before the group starts if possible, so you do not end up having three arrows pointing every which way as you manuever yourself to counter-agro. A warrior tends to help with this, as they usually lead the group into battle. Leadership is crucial, and shout NOT be overlooked. This is the main reason why groups fail this mission is because of the lack of leadership/communication between members.

Make sure the warriors do not rush when you are 10/70 energy. Have someone spam something in the beggining about clicking their energy whenever it is "hazardous". This way you don't have any unecessary deaths early on that can cause tention and fewer persons in the game. It's all helpful to the group, and can easily prevent problems when the warrior thought you were "good to go".

Manuever through the area, taking out a group at a time. Once you come to the long bridge, have 7 people wait at the far end while a warrior pulls a lone group down. Make sure your allies are not too close, as often times the Monk Boss patrols that area, healing everything with little effort.
If this happens to you, make sure the mesmer knows his job, and unload quickly on the Name. If you don't have a mesmer, try and take out as many minions as you can before you attack the Name. If you try and fight the Name with 10+ minions attacking your casters, you're done. Energy gets too low, and...well...lots of pissed people.

Move up the hill, and take out whatever is in your path. Again, make sure your casters are ready.

**Remember that necro? If you have one, his wells are very helpful in this part of the game. Of course, they can be a minion-master, yet in the end corpses grow scarce, and their power dwindles.**

Take out each enemy group in the "town?" (whatever it is), then have your ranged persons take out their archers in the two towers before the King opens the door.

Wait until one of the Dolyak groups moves up, and engage the lone group at the bottom. Take your time, as there is no reason to rush and get swamped by mere stupidity.

Now you are at the keep, where a plethora of persons jump to quickly, and end up getting themselves or the King killed.
Take out the groups before the "First set of stairs on your left". I've found that taking these stairs down (the ones that led to the bugged gate) into the courtyard, and "hugging the wall" to avoid the Named (can't remember his name, cut Ruric's head off). Then you will be on the opposite side of the keep. Begin taking out the mobs in a clockwise fashion, as opposed to counter-clockwise. <<You must go through the courtyard in order to engage in a clockwise figure>>
I suggest that way because you tend to get fewer adds. This is my own oppinion, and is what works for me; it is not necessary if you do not want to.

By doing this rotation, you can take out all the mobs while ignoring the "Ruric Killer" (can't remember name!!) in the middle. Blast away with the cattapults and lay waste to the giants. Now attack Ruric Killer.

Next, is debatable, but is what tends to work.

Guard the KING, not the DOORS. If you split your party, your damage is lessened, as is your healing. One named can decimate one side, causing you to run over in assistance. In the meantime, two Jades have walked by from the other door, unscathed and unnoticed. Now the King is dead, and the screen floods with angry blue messages.

Keep your group at the King. It is far easier. Have the warrior keep Mending on the King (just in case). He will not fight unless an enemy happens to break through and attack him. The Mursaat tend to be far more interested with your casters, so have your warriors engage the enemies while they are 3/4 up the stairs. This prevents Line of Sight to your casters, preventing Jade Bows from bothering your lower armors.

Engaging mobs in the Keep:

Targets are as follows, take them out in this order:

1) Jade Bow
2) Mursaat Necro
3) Mursaat Mesmer
4) Mursaat Elementalist
5) Jade Armor
6) White Mantle Casters
7) White Mantle Melee
8) NAMED MURSAAT

First thing that cathes your eye may be the named mobs. Sure, they do lots of damage, but they tank like nothing else. Ignore them until surrounding minions are finished, as your task will be far easier.
Dumping your mana and time into a Named may get it killed, but all the while, 5 more mobs have overwhelmed you, possibly even dropping a few of you. Take out any non-named mobs first, as they will fall much faster, and lower the enemies damage significantly.

I've found this method to be far more effective than having all 8 of you dump your time into a single Named.

Stay up top, and do not stray into the courtyard if at all possible. Let them come up, as they tend to come up 2-3 at a time, and can be picked off quite quickly with all of you assisting on one target.

Through time, good leadership and communication, this mission is easily accomplished. However, with no communication, randomized leadership (and despite the fact you may have 4 elementalists), a group is severely troubled.

If this guide helps you, then I have accomplished my goal. I have ran this tactic five times this week, with five straight wins. I know that it works.

Any suggestions, comments, criticisms, and gratitude is appreciated. If this helps you, let me know. If it doesn't, by all means, post it.

I wish you intelligence, because 'luck' runs out.
-anonymous

Post Statement:
Perhaps a sticky of this, as this guide can be of some help to many people rather than it being lost from the lack of bumping.

Labrie · Sep 16, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

This is a very good guide to "The Keep". Changes on the familiar tactics that most people employ actually helped alot. I found the mission alot easier with my necro after trying it your way. Took a while to convince people of the plan since it didn't follow every typical mission rule in the book, but it paid off. Thanks for all the tips.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 16, 2005, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Yes, that is exactly what I see from most people. They hear this idea, and try to avoid it because it is different.
Glad to see that it helped you!

Ruoenkruez Tudor · Sep 16, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

this mision was easy just stay in the middle and set traps at the steps and put wells

but heres the group i used

2 monks(2 healers)
1 IW(thats me)
2 warriors
1ranger
1 nuker
and 1 blood necro

and BTW stay in the middle with Jalis in the end!its way easier and u must stay together

Tocc · Sep 16, 2005, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_scrawny_gnoll01

Now you are at the keep, where a plethora of persons jump to quickly, and end up getting themselves or the King killed.
Take out the groups before the "First set of stairs on your left". I've found that taking these stairs down (the ones that led to the bugged gate) into the courtyard, and "hugging the wall" to avoid the Named (can't remember his name, cut Ruric's head off). Then you will be on the opposite side of the keep. Begin taking out the mobs in a clockwise fashion, as opposed to counter-clockwise. <<You must go through the courtyard in order to engage in a clockwise figure>>
I suggest that way because you tend to get fewer adds. This is my own oppinion, and is what works for me; it is not necessary if you do not want to.

By doing this rotation, you can take out all the mobs while ignoring the "Ruric Killer" (can't remember name!!) in the middle. Blast away with the cattapults and lay waste to the giants. Now attack Ruric Killer.

I don't know why all ignore the boss, it's more easy kill him first and than lure the other group one by one. It doesn't change that much, but there are no reason to make strange tour when kill him immediatly reduce a little bit aggro chances.
Me too many times I avoid it, but it's just for "estetic" reasons

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 16, 2005, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tocc

I don't know why all ignore the boss, it's more easy kill him first and than lure the other group one by one. It doesn't change that much, but there are no reason to make strange tour when kill him immediatly reduce a little bit aggro chances.
Me too many times I avoid it, but it's just for "estetic" reasons

You do have a point, but I tend to ignore him just to avoid the possibility of having the King rush him, eventually rushing the surounding enemies once Ruric Killer dies; ultimately agroing the whole upper bowl of the keep.

Through experience, I've found that it is easier to leave the named guy alive, just so you have at least one enemy alive when you start dropping the enemies with the cattapults. Many a time you tend to forget about the cats if you just attack quickly, and then end up having more giants rush you in the beggining.

Overall, I do it this way just so it is easier to control the initial wave of enemies once the keep is cleared, and so you don't end up having some bad luck with the King agroing the upper bowl.

boontheloon · Sep 16, 2005, 09:55 AM // 09:55

I had trouble with the keep as my warrior in the end i did this

2 warriors
rest hench

reason for hench?

You know exactly what a healer hench can do where if u take a human they might be the worlds worst healer but you dont find out until 50 mins into the mission
reason for other henchies is basically that they listen to calls

and with 2 people they split up pretty much equally

I did this on my 10th attempt and flew through it no problems

Clusmas · Sep 16, 2005, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I agree, it's not hard at all. I've done this mission so many times (helping guildies and what not) and only ever failed it once.

It can be put much simpler. STAY WITH THE KING. When he props himself up onto his little throne thing, stay there with him. You can send two competent party members to man the catapaults if you want but you don't need to.

Then you just let them steadily flow into the keep and wipe them out as they come up towards the king. Rarely fails.

zehly · Sep 16, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I don't know what takes longer.. reading your post or finding a decent group for the mission.

At any rate, that is an excellent guide. Someone should sticky this in the Quest section.

wsmcasey · Sep 16, 2005, 05:07 PM // 17:07

It's an okay guide, but lets be realistic. You have a better chance of hell freezing over and cows jumping over the moon than you have at getting 2 healing monks for the Thunderhead mission within 5 minutes of waiting.

Farin · Sep 16, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

It's an okay guide, but lets be realistic. You have a better chance of hell freezing over and cows jumping over the moon than you have at getting 2 healing monks for the Thunderhead mission within 5 minutes of waiting.

So true.

a_scrawny_gnoll01 · Sep 16, 2005, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by wsmcasey

It's an okay guide, but lets be realistic. You have a better chance of hell freezing over and cows jumping over the moon than you have at getting 2 healing monks for the Thunderhead mission within 5 minutes of waiting.

Well, I can't argue with that and not be breaking what I know to be true.

Monks are hard to find, yes, but usually 5-10 minutes is all it takes to find a second. Any longer than this will usually result in half your team jumping districts, in hopes they can join a 7man group looking for a monk, while they are a ranger.

Five minutes, it's off and I know it *evil grin*, however, just waiting an extra five minutes when you think of leaving is usually as long as it takes to get that last spot filled.

...mhenlo is always sitting alone, hehe.

wsmcasey · Sep 16, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Mehno is pretty good at healing and I prefer to fight with henches. The main problem with the heal/protection henches is not there healing and protection, but its that they can't rez properly. You could have the entire team down except for the healer and protection hench, and they would rather wand monsters to death instead of trying to rez a human player (very very frustrating). I've yelled at them many times but I think I'm on their ignore list.

Labrie · Sep 16, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Are henchies infused now? Because they always get killed by Spectral Agony whenever I use them in any mission with Mursatt or Jades in it.

galkraft · Sep 16, 2005, 10:22 PM // 22:22

I have one suggestion.

Don't give Jalis to the Ranger. Have your ranger run ahead a ways and set traps. Makes things easier once they get close... so long as Jalis doesn't follow the Ranger.

Ollj · Sep 17, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

A well rounded group works better than having pure damage and healing.

cant say it often enough:

A well rounded group works better than a group that is not rounded! Anywere!

I find it still funny people demand on 3 monks for the tombs, wasting one space for a "good class" like a ranger AND a mesmer AND a necromancer.

oh and ask the warrior if it usses mending, it he says yes, or nothting at all, get rid of that ignorant egoistic bastard before he screws you up!

wsmcasey · Sep 19, 2005, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Well, I did it. I beat Thunderhead last night with my ranger after 17 attempts to get into a good group. Some luck was really on our side because we had the healer and protector henches and 4 people in our random pug had never done the mission before. Luckily I had completed this mission several times before with other characters, and there was a necro in my group that had done it before. We walked the other guys thru it and it worked out really well. We had 2 elementalist on the team and had them fire the cats. It was an additional bonus having the ele's up top so they could nuke incoming enemies at the gate entrances. I set traps at the entrances accordingly. The necro raised minions and used them to block the entrances so nothing could get thru. We didn't need to watch the King, and we basically stayed down below except for the ele's on the cats that pinged the map when there was activity on their side. The healer/protector henchs followed me because I was calling the targets.

This worked so well, that I helped a friend beat the mission after I finished.

delfin42 · Sep 19, 2005, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by a_scrawny_gnoll01

Guard the KING, not the DOORS.
Guard the KING, not the DOORS.
Guard the KING, not the DOORS.
Guard the KING, not the DOORS.
Guard the KING, not the DOORS.

Can't be repeated enough.

wsmcasey · Sep 19, 2005, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Not watching the doors is what gets the king killed. If you properly guard the doors then you don't have to worry about the king.

Tmm Ryan · Sep 19, 2005, 06:57 PM // 18:57

wsmcasey is correct. Did this mission my el/mo 2nd attempt last night, i wud stadn with the king, and call East Or West. I Put Mending On The king incase. And if i knew East was guna get attacked i wud simply shout East. Vice Verser. And If I felt, the King was being threatened by an onslaught coming his way,i wud shout KING.

The King didnt take one hit, and my party, had 2 hench (healer+ protector), 2 Warriors, 3 Ele, 1 mesmer, 1 Necro.

Its Really not a hard mission.