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Feb 09, 2006, 03:34 PM // 15:34
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#1 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Isle of the dead
Guild: [DVDF][LDS]
Profession: P/W
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Tombs (pve) build guide
My tomb of the primeval king experiences have led me to writing this guide. Please note that anything suggested in here is not the ONLY way of doing the tombs. As long as players know how to work together and know how to play the game on an advanced level, any group should do fine. I am just commenting on the most used party builds.
Setup 1 - Semi-balanced - time to complete: 1 hour 15 minutes to 3 hours. Base party setup: -warrior / x - tank -mo / x - healer -mo / x - healer -mo / x - protection or healer -ele / me - fire nuke -ele / me - fire nuke -necro / x - SS / battery This build depends on the whole party understanding aggro real well. Note that this is only 7 party-members, i'll get to the 8th in a bit. Group roles: warrior / x - tank (preferably with one interrupt for siege wurms and terrorwebs) Optimal is this not being a warrior / monk or warrior / ranger. However with the 2 pure healer monks, with no enchantment healing spells, a good warrior / monk should be able to stand his ground, though I strongly advice against it. For anything x / mo and mo / x finger of chaos dissipates enchantment, that's why wa/mo is bad. The warrior / ranger will have trouble keeping his stances up. The warrior / elementalist will be interrupted by it. The warrior / necro will make the SS go away when he is hit by finger of chaos, but this shouldnt be too much of a problem. So warrior / necro is a good choice, warrior / mesmer even better, leaving the warrior / elementalist in the middle. My preference is warrior / mesmer, with physical resistance and elemental resistance this can be the ultimate tank in the tombs. Best Choice: Warrior / mesmer Worse Choice: Warrior / monk, many experienced players will not party with a warrior / monk unless they know the healing monks are not using enchantments to heal the warrior (and in a pug, or a speedy group this isn't happening). This build depends on the warrior more then most PUGs will admit, a bad lurer / tank will cause the party to fail eventually, most critical being the start of HoH, where too much aggro is easily done. The task of the other players is also very important, they have to stay out of the aggro bubble of the warrior until he has got a sticking aggro. Some people will say that the monks should be close for heal, but for all aggro to go to the warrior even they have to be out of it (hence my pref for the war/mes, they seem to be able to take more beating before needing a monk). Therefor this is a very difficult build for new players to the tombs. mo / x - healer A simpe healing build which preferably does not use healing breeze. The best tanks i have worked with go berserk when enchantments hit them before they go off. Apart from the chained souls there are also other enemies who use enchantment shatters (dream thingy, forgot name), so enchanting the tank will make the tank last shorter. Though some will insist on using mo / me for Mantra of resolve, the mana reserve of the monk is usually not that big, so the -4 (or more) mana that gets drained is basically one less heal spell (and in the end the same effect as an interrupted spell). So personnally I don''t really care about the subclass of the monks. mo / x - another healer, or protection 3 healers is a good option, 2 healer and one protection is also. The benifit of the protection monk comes into play when things go wrong. A protection monk can be a real help when aggro goes wrong and breaks through the line, so that has my vote. ele / mesmer - fire nuker Basic and straightforward. Mantra of Resolve is a must, the big nuke spells require too long to activate and are often interrupted. Mantra of Concentration is not my favorite, my times you well get interrupted two times in a row, meaning still a failed nuke. Glyph of Renewal is also the best option for the rapid nuke, stacking Arcane Echo with is is basically overkill. The ele's should be aware not to meteor shower the one remaining grasp, the tank and SS necro can deal with him. A not so skilled nuker will mean long waits between battle for regen (even with blood ritual). For the longer fight the necro does a good job casting blood ritual on the ele's evey now and then. Necro / x - SS / battery Being mesmer helps this build, and it's the only character i'd recommend mantra of concentration over mantra of resolve for. Arcane Echo may help, or not if the necro gets out of mana because of it (means he can't blood ritual any energy surged monk or ele). I also recommend enfeebling blood, this skill will help alot if aggro goes bad. For secondary ranger is also good (for interrupts). Some groups take a full battery, which is nice if you want to spend even longer in tombs, because you have to remember that with good balled up aggro SS is basically a nuke spell too. Good monks and good ele's don't need mana all the time. The 8th party member: -Another tank - This is what most groups do. It makes controlling the aggro easier, but takes away one slot for damage potential. So it's basically do it quicker, or do it the more careful way. This usually resolves around body blocking at certain points. -Another ele - Means more nuking and a quicker run through tombs. -A support char - Like mesmer or ranger. Can be good, though in my experience there has been no real need. Setup 2 - Ranger Barrage / Pet - Time to complete: 45 minutes to 1 hour 30 minutes. Base party setup: -r / x - ranger with barrage and pet -m / x - healer monk -n / x - order necro This is the base, i'll at to it in the different builds. But first i'll discuss the ranger. r / x - it's very handy if 2 of the rangers are monk secondary, for the hard res. Rebirth being the best option. They also need barrage / charm animal and confort animal. Revive Animal doesn't work that good, because you need to be close for it. Throw dirt is in my opinion a must, as is at least one interrupt. Trolls unguent can also be handy, but i never bring it, my build has 0 wilderness survival  . Important for the rangers: bring pets back up quick and always make sure the spirits are up.Spirits needed by the group: -Favorable winds (there are no enemie rangers). -Winnowing (raeally helps the barrage) - but the one bringing this needs a respectable level in WS. Optional: -Predatory Season - I don't like it, the +4 health isn't that good, and the one monk will be less usefull. In the build with the minion master this will make his task harder too. m / x - The solo healer in the group, good energy management, heal party, remove hex (or inspired) are recommended. A mo / e can use glyph of lesser energy ro make heal party easier. healing breeze is also good on for this monk. Optimally the monk also keeps an eye on the pets, as they are the tanks in this group. n / x - Order Order of the vampire, order of pain, blood renewal and 16 blood are the key. He can also bring blood ritual for the monk, and heal party if he has monk secondary. This is the one who stays behind and spams the orders. I strongly recommend n / mo, for heal party and rebirth. His role is vital, without him the damage potential of the who group goes down so much I don't even attempt to calculate it. Well of blood is also a good skill, as blood is high already and helps out the pets. Different barrage / pet groups 6 x ranger, 1 x monk, 1 x order necro: Pet tanking, keeping pets alive is important, rangers and monk should keep an eye out for the pets. They are the tanks, if all pets die the enemie has basiccally broken tranks. 5 x ranger, 1 x monk, 1 x order necro, 1 x minion master necro Pets must die, healing pets is not that important in this build. They are the food of the minion master. But they do have to be brought up again quick like in any other pet build. For the minions a balanced group is good, fiends and horrors. This is my preferred group. 5 x ranger, 1 x monk, 1 x order necro, 1 x warrior tank The warrior tank is back, the healer must keep him alive, but this setup makes a breaking of ranks less likely. There are many more variations on this team, some groups bring two monk, but i think that is overdoing it. A good barrage group has actually no need for a monk. ------- I hope this build guide is a help to some. Please do not post comments like "OMG HE FORGOT THISANDTHAT HE IS SUCH NOOB", I have an open mind about comments and will be updating this if I find anything good. Please keep is nice. But don't come with I done it in this and that time, that has nothing to do with the build topic, unless you support it with the build. This is not exclusive, other group builds do exist, I just haven't tried them (like the trapper build). If you know something about those builds feel free to add. ------- EDIT: -added why warrior / monks are a bad idea and a good choice / bad choice for warriors (agreeing with Racthoh). -added affect on elementalist of finger of chaos to the warrior section (thx striderkaaru). -and a thx to JoeKnowMo for pointing out the added ranger build stuff. I have a r / n I have been using in tombs, but I've only been using pure ranger skills. Next time I go in I'll be bringing Mark of Pain  .-Timeframe for ranger build, though I have not done it as fast as some, I've adjusted the time. Last edited by Effendi Westland; Feb 11, 2006 at 01:55 AM // 01:55.. |
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Feb 09, 2006, 08:48 PM // 20:48
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#2 | ||
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wessst Siiide, USA
Profession: Mo/
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Good piece. You've clearly been through tombs quite a few times.
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I find that one ranger (or two) with a Necro secondary who casts Mark of Pain on one monster in the group really helps to increase the Barrage damage and doesn't require focus fire. edit: Just a caveat: The monster with MoP on it tends to run after a few hits cause it to spread damage to its allies. Not always though. And since it lasts 30 secs, MoP is still active when it returns. Last edited by JoeKnowMo; Feb 10, 2006 at 06:59 PM // 18:59.. |
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Feb 09, 2006, 08:57 PM // 20:57
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#3 |
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Did I hear 7 heroes?
Join Date: May 2005
Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)
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Under no circumstance would I go warrior monk, even if I had 2 pure healing monks. I'm just wasting their Healing Seeds, Healing Breezes and what not as a warrior/monk.
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Feb 09, 2006, 09:28 PM // 21:28
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#4 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: S. Shiverpeaks mostly
Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]
Profession: W/
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Why not? I've completed Tombs many times with guildies and PUGs as a War/Mo (sometimes, and I prefer it this way, as the sole tank) if only because of SOJ that helped in reducing damage input as well as significantly reduced time to kill (think mob attack tank, mob takes decent dmg at 8-10 smite, mob gets knocked down, rinse, repeat). Without any fixed build, we've been able to clear Tombs in less than 1:30 and that's with some random breaks and AFKs. I'm sure if we rushed it could be cut down to prolly 1 hour. A good tank helps. A good damage output behind the line is even more important.
This response is not about War/Mo being the best build for Tombs. I'd have to try out War/Me first to really gauge it. I am only responding to the previous post about absolutely no War/Mo and my disagreement with it. |
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Feb 09, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42
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#5 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2005
Guild: Scars Meadows [SMS], Retired Officer
Profession: W/
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great job with the guide. it's well thought out and contains some good ideas. i have a few comments.
first of all, the reason why w/mo is generally not a good idea is because fingers of chaos strips enchants from anything monk. this poses a problem if you have a prot monk on the team, or even a healing monk who casts enchants like breeze or seed on the tank. if your team build has absolutely no enchants, then this isn't a problem at all. this is not saying that you can't finish it as a w/mo, as that is still possible. however, consider all of the times that an enchant was stripped from you. it would have been a lot better (and the run may have gone a lot faster) had they not been stripped. w/e isn't a good idea because fingers interrupts any and all of your actions. if you haven't tried it yet, i would suggest you do to discover just how annoying it is. once again, this does not mean that you can't finish as a w/e. however, you aren't being as helpful to your team as you can be. also, i would like to make a minor correction on obsidian flesh. it doesn't work like spell breaker, where monsters will still try to cast, fail, and waste their energy. with obsidian flesh, monsters won't bother casting at all and will in fact waste no energy. they will save their energy and spells for the rest of your team. lastly, with regards to an r/mo, it isn't necessary to switch weapons at all. bows do have their own enchanting mod, which you can use if you are casting judge's insight. the ideal bow to use would be a zealous horn type bow of enchanting. the energy gain from a zealous string will allow you to keep your energy up for barrage spam. a horn bow class bow provides an additional 10% sundering and has the same refire rate as the barrage cooldown. |
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Feb 10, 2006, 12:02 AM // 00:02
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#6 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tucson, AZ
Guild: The Black Hand Gang [BHG] and The Black Helm Gang [BHeG]
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Personally I prefer the 5 rangers, 1 MM, 1 Order/Battery, 1 Monk setup.
I (the monk) was breathless at the end, but it only took about 45 minutes. There were thousands of minions, everything went down so quick, I was never ever out of energy. Except for one little death--a ranger was pulling and I was stuck behind minions--it was flawless. Pretty much the only ones you have to worry about healing are the necros, who are constantly spamming self-sacrifice skills. They're the only ones I used Breeze on, since they're usually back near me and not going to get shattered. If anyone cares about an easy monk build to go with this team? Here's mine: Mo/Me 15 Healing 13 Divine 3 Inspiration Mantra of Concentration Remove Hex Smite Hex Word of Healing Orison of Healing Healing Breeze Heal Party Rebirth |
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Feb 10, 2006, 12:55 AM // 00:55
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#7 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: R/
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^-^
I totally agree with the above post. I've been in say 15 groups with the 5 ranger setup, 1 monk, 1 mm, 1 orders and have successfully completed 15 runs. All PUG too. It may be noobish, but I say whatever works. Not once in those 15 runs have we ever went over the 1 hr mark. Most of the runs are right around the 45-50 min range. Awfully fast. And there are certain areas where if you over aggro, that usually means trouble....not in this case. Pull them all. =O |
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Feb 10, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09
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#8 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Isle of the dead
Guild: [DVDF][LDS]
Profession: P/W
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Quote:
When the Semi-balanced get the the 3rd level, they typically do a U form. They clear one side and the wurm, then clear the other side and the wurm. After this they get any patrols which can be got to without drawing fire from the 2 wurms in the middle. It blew my mind when the first time in a ranger group, they did a full circle and didn't bother getting the patrols first AND it worked. I'll say it now, over aggro is not that big a problem with the ranger setup as it is with semi-balanced. |
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Feb 10, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41
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#9 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wessst Siiide, USA
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
I wasn't clear about why it's good to switch weapons when casting an enchant and then switch back. I suggested a bow/weapon change when casting enchants because you're not going to increase your damage with a bow grip of enchanting. A zealous horn bow is a good idea for gaining energy and the refire rate of bows is irrelevant, so the inherent 10% sundering helps too. For max damage however (if your expertise is high enough) I would suggest a Sundering horn bow of Marksmanship. You lose almost no time when switching weapons for the purposes of casting judge's insight. Since I'm a cheap bastard, I like to use a cheap green weapon with a max enchant mod (Yakslapper, Galigord's stone staff, Tarnok's recurve bow...). Then go to work with a bow with a max Marksmanship bow grip. Cheapiness FTW. |
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Feb 11, 2006, 12:58 AM // 00:58
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#10 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: near SF, CA
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