Curse

Zehnchu · May 11, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanHeartstone

I think there are two ways a game developer can go: I will make the game such that everyone will have a good time, or I will reward certain players more than others on the basis of something.

If you read postings from the Anet team, you’ll see they always say they don’t favor one side or the other both “PvE & PvP are created equal” why should rewarding farmers be any different?

Quote:

For example, only those PvP players who are good enough to beat a few teams can get to see the HoH. This harms all those players who aren't skilled enough to see the HoH.

You really shouldn’t compare the two, but since you did allow me to shoot it down, one there’s no requirement stopping them from getting to HoH. And all players have a chance to make it there, and they are not locked out of HA like the majority of people who are locked out of elite missions. And to add there’s no insane amount of points they have to farm in order to gain access, see the difference?

Quote:

It's the same way with the HoH/elite missions: if you have to struggle to attain it, then it becomes all the more satisfying when you get it.

Again you shouldn’t compare the two, one HoH is base on skill so the satisfying enjoyment come from you having to use your brain to you reach the end knowing that you won against real people.

Comparing the two “communities”, of alliances who own towns to the other 98.8% who don’t which aren’t happy and are not “enriched”. With each post you make in trying to defend why farming should be rewarded in such way and the imbalance of the new favor system only strengthens the resolve for Anet to change it. If there was a new mission yes it would be improved.

Jamski · May 11, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Suggestions:

1.) Make controlling access to the elite mission actually cost your alliance faction - i.e. your alliance "buys" control of the town for 12 hours or whatever and then loses (spends) the faction they saved up to do so. This lets more guilds have a go at controlling the town. After all, if your alliance is playing the elite mission, they can't be out farming faction, right? Make winning an elite mission give some faction to slightly off-set the cost of buying access.

2.) Add more elite missions to the other controllable towns/outposts to increase access. This could be the same mission for all the non-capital towns, and use existing maps with new creatures/items/objectives to make the whole creation of content much simpler for ANet, or...

3.) Allow all alliances that control a city have access to that faction's elite mission.

4.) Allow Luxon alliances to "buy" access to Kurzick outposts at double the faction cost and then be able to play the Kurzick mission there. And the other way round, of course.

5.) Add Turtle and Mantid pets that can only be charmed during the elite missions attached to the capital cities to maintain their exlcusiveness.

Stockholm · May 11, 2006, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevok

I find it interesting that the same people who complain about not being able to access the Elite missions and that if they pay $50 they should be able to access everything, are the same ones who purposely don't play a huge part of the game, PvP. If you were really concerned about getting your money's worth, why do you intentionally avoid such a huge and crucial aspect of the game? Shouldn't you be playing every aspect of PvP as well? Bit of a contradiction there.

I bought the game for the PvE part, and it says on the box Quote "Enter an epic adventure where EVERY Mission is created for YOU. Play as a stand-alone game, or combine with the original Prophecies campaign for even more ROLEPLAYING options" end quote

PvP is a totally other part of the game, elit missions have nothing to do with PvP, it's PvE and as stated above by A-Net "every mission is created for you".

NO NEED TO SAY ANY MORE!!!!!!!

Dove_Song · May 11, 2006, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevok

I find it interesting that the same people who complain about not being able to access the Elite missions and that if they pay $50 they should be able to access everything, are the same ones who purposely don't play a huge part of the game, PvP. If you were really concerned about getting your money's worth, why do you intentionally avoid such a huge and crucial aspect of the game? Shouldn't you be playing every aspect of PvP as well? Bit of a contradiction there.

the point is they COULD play PvP if they wanted too....as it is right now the eilite missions are all about faction farms...which IMO is one of the things Anet had going for it...you didn't have to farm to experaince the game in full.

I feel confident this will change soon. Anet is pretty good at listening to their player base.

Are we whining because we can't get in ? YES OF COURSE! LOL...

fb2000 · May 11, 2006, 06:22 PM // 18:22

its really a two-sided dispute, each side has right..

personally i like it this way, there are rare items for the maniac grinders to get.. theres a goal toward which someone might strive (control of capital)and there are (or were, not sure if anet did feck it already) nice drops/chests for the regular players to enjoy..

this is the only way to get at least a portion of players to continue playing pve..........sorry, but if you do this mission on a regular basis, ull grow bored in less than a week... there is not anything to be crafted there, so it cant really be compared to uw/fow...

my viewpoint

SeanHeartstone · May 11, 2006, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

It is not much like the HoH. Whereas I could get 7 other players, go in, and improve my chances of winning with each run as well as improving my skills at PvP (though it is only HoH), no such thing exists here. Since I don't happen to know 999 other players interisted in farming, I am locked out.

My point with the HoH example was not that it was just as easy to find people to do it, but that the incentive for winning it made it more desirable to attain and more fulfilling when you do win. The same can be said for any system which has a reward for those who do the best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

You're right, the numbers are wrong. Since most of the alliances have less then 1,000 people they should be smaller. And yes, the 0.2% benefit more than the other 7.8%. Why? Because the 0.2% and the 8% get the same benefits from having elite missions this way (drive to work together etc) but the 0.2% also get access.

You're still evading my point. It may be true that our alliance has benefited from the system more than other alliances but that does not mean that the overall benefit has been affected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

It's like tariffs on imported goods. A huge portion of the population pays a small bit for a large benefit to a few. It is a bad idea in economics, and it is a bad idea here. The difference is, here you have people standing up for themselves.

I take this to be an interesting point, but I disagree with it for a few reasons. Firstly, why is it anything like a tariff? The impression I have of tariffs is that the cost of imported goods goes up so as to help local producers be sustainable. I fail to see how this is any way comparable to the GW situation. So on this basis your argument seems a little off.

But to be charitable perhaps you mean that it is wrong for the group of Guild Wars players to pay for an aspect of the game which only a few get to enjoy. Again my response is that this will be true for any sort of reward you introduce into the game. Those who win will necessarily be better off than those who lose. And honestly, I don't find anything wrong with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I'd say that there is a big difference between locking me out of "any old mission" and locking me out of "the hardest PvE mission in the game." Now obviously, making the elite missions accessible to anyone without replacing them with something for people to strive for in the control of a town would never work. Huge numbers of ideas abound for a different reward, one possibility would be a weapon crafter who makes perfect weapons/offhands with rare skin X. Being able to craft your own perfect celestial sword is going to be a heck of a lot cheaper than buying one, and don't doubt that you couldn't make a pretty penny crafting and selling them. That's something to strive for, and unlike the current setup, does not cost players without the capital a good portion of the PvE content. A huge number of other ideas (and usually better than this example) exist, just read a few of the threads about it.

I agree here that it is "the hardest PvE mission in the game." And, perhaps, on that basis that will make it a more enjoyable one. (I might say that THK was the hardest mission and many, many people complained that it should be made easier.) But even so this is more of a reason for ANET to make another endgame mission comparable to FoW and UW than for them to make the elite missions accessible to all.

Regarding all the additions/changes suggested I don't atm think anything like having a crafter/the alliance getting money, etc. would be nearly as fulfilling. I cannot speak for the rest of my alliance, but I certainly know that I would stop farming/caring much if that were the case.

JoDiamonds · May 11, 2006, 07:14 PM // 19:14

My only real concern is that a style of play is sort of forced onto players if they want to access "Elite" content. By merely calling it elite, they more or less condone the thought that the style of play required is the right style of play.

I don't want to farm faction. I don't want to be forced to join a huge alliance of gigantic guilds.

As far as I can tell, those two things are largely required. I suppose there's some chance I could avoid farming personally by being a freeloaded in a huge alliance of gigantic guilds, but that seems particulalry lame.

If the game is meant to be skill based at all, why not reward the guilds that generate the most faction in the smallest amount of playing time. For instance, record scores for some missions (ala Dragon's Throat) and use that as the basis.

As is, the goal of the game (if you want to be Elite, which people almost want by definition) seems to be forming gigantic groups of people. I guess I can see why ArenaNet thought this was a good idea (force people into communities which will make the game thrive) but it certainly punishes other kinds of people and gameplay.

Personally, I hate the idea of farming in general, and this clearly requires a kind of farming.

Finally, I still think that everyone should have access to the so-called elite content some of the time. Allow "better" players (however ANet chooses to define "better") access more often, but let even the lowliest player access that content at least once a month (preferably much more often, like once a week).

SeanHeartstone · May 11, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

If you read postings from the Anet team, you’ll see they always say they don’t favor one side or the other both “PvE & PvP are created equal” why should rewarding farmers be any different?

You really shouldn’t compare the two, but since you did allow me to shoot it down, one there’s no requirement stopping them from getting to HoH. And all players have a chance to make it there, and they are not locked out of HA like the majority of people who are locked out of elite missions. And to add there’s no insane amount of points they have to farm in order to gain access, see the difference?

Again perhaps I was unclear as to why I was using the HoH example. The only point of using it was to show that having a reward in place for things necessarily implies that some will win and some will lose, i.e. some will benefit and some will be harmed. This will be true of any system based on reward. I wasn't trying to say anything like PvP players shouldn't be rewarded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Again you shouldn’t compare the two, one HoH is base on skill so the satisfying enjoyment come from you having to use your brain to you reach the end knowing that you won against real people.

Again I agree with you and think the HoH system is great in terms of rewarding skill. But this doesn't necessarily mean that the elite missions system is bad. In fact, as I mentioned in earlier posts, rewarding farming has always been, imho, a good part of the Guild Wars system and further that much of what goes into having a good alliance is more than having 1000 people just grinding away at farming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

Comparing the two “communities”, of alliances who own towns to the other 98.8% who don’t which aren’t happy and are not “enriched”. With each post you make in trying to defend why farming should be rewarded in such way and the imbalance of the new favor system only strengthens the resolve for Anet to change it. If there was a new mission yes it would be improved.

Again this 98.8% statistic. First of all, I sincerely doubt that 98.8% of the community is unhappy with the game because of the way it's set up. Secondly, I mentioned before how I think the community and comraderie which goes on in a significant portion of the game community is quantitative higher than the benefit that would be recieved by opening the mission up. As I mentioned before it is a problem that there is no "end-game" mission accessible to all like UW or FoW, but that does not mean we should sacrifice the elite missions and all their existence creates for that.

Banebow · May 11, 2006, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanHeartstone

My point with the HoH example was not that it was just as easy to find people to do it, but that the incentive for winning it made it more desirable to attain and more fulfilling when you do win. The same can be said for any system which has a reward for those who do the best.

Said reward does not mean much when the only people who get to compete are a tiny fraction of the player base. To continue with the HoH example, winning doesn't mean much when you are the only team fighting, no matter the reward. You have more than one "team" in this case, but not by much, and very few people will ever get to even make an attempt at going for this "reward." HoH, GvG, TA, FoW, UW, RA, all the areas that people tried to be better at than other people, or tried to complete faster than other people, could be entered easily. Not so here. It does not matter how large the incentive to win is when only a tiny portion ever get to compete. Those who win in the face of competition deserve rewards. They should be better off than the people they defeated. But they should have to deal with anyone who decides to make a bid for the reward, not a tiny fraction of people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanHeartstone

You're still evading my point. It may be true that our alliance has benefited from the system more than other alliances but that does not mean that the overall benefit has been affected.

I never said the overall benefit was changed.
0.2% get a tangible benefit.
7.8% get the enrichment benefit you mention.
That adds up to 8% total benefit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanHeartstone

I take this to be an interesting point, but I disagree with it for a few reasons. Firstly, why is it anything like a tariff? The impression I have of tariffs is that the cost of imported goods goes up so as to help local producers be sustainable. I fail to see how this is any way comparable to the GW situation. So on this basis your argument seems a little off.

But to be charitable perhaps you mean that it is wrong for the group of Guild Wars players to pay for an aspect of the game which only a few get to enjoy. Again my response is that this will be true for any sort of reward you introduce into the game. Those who win will necessarily be better off than those who lose. And honestly, I don't find anything wrong with this.

I was taking the reason why a tariff is bad and applying it to the current situation. 92% of the guild wars community pays (does NOT get access to the elite missions---tariff equivalent of paying a high price for item X) so that 8% can benefit (gets access/has that sense of community etc---tariff equivalent of staying in business). The loss to each individual player in that 92% is relatively small compared to the gain of each individual in that other 8%. However, access for everyone to elite missions would be a gain to 92% of the community and a loss to 8%. It would, however, be a small loss, since as has been said, the elite mission can be replaced with something that matters less. Yes, it matters less. No, you won't work towards it as hard, some alliances may not work towards it at all. But the overall enjoyment that the average player gets in guild wars will be up, even though a fraction (that 8%) does suffer. You can't make everyone happy, but when you try and make people happy you try and make as many as possible, not a small minority.

Yes, those who win will be better off. Read the first part of this post as to why the current system hardly passes as competition. And then consider why game content should be treated as a coveted prize, rather than as game content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanHeartstone

Regarding all the additions/changes suggested I don't atm think anything like having a crafter/the alliance getting money, etc. would be nearly as fulfilling. I cannot speak for the rest of my alliance, but I certainly know that I would stop farming/caring much if that were the case.

Yes, you probably would. So would many of the 8% currently getting a benefit. And 92% of the community would get more fulfillment from the game. Is that 8% more important than that 92%?

yuna of spira · May 11, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Firstly, Banebow and Sean are getting way too far into specifics that have no way of being proved and are getting way way too overworked....just slow down a bit, think, then type.
Secondly, no one has responded to my orginal post about this being PvE's form of GWFC. PvP has an "elite" reward for those who can prove their worth in PvP. Much of what makes up these top guilds is the fact that they gvg a lot together, playing with each other, getting used to each others abilities. Maybe there are some better players out there, who if they got together and played more, could beat Evil or Te or Rifts anyday, but its the way it is, and no one in PvP is really complaining about it. PvE is now getting introduced to something that pits them against others indirectly, whereas before they only had to work against Npc's and what Anet originally designed. If you would stop to realize that maybe you have to work a little harder for "the abslolute best" PvE rewards, just as Evil and Te do, then it can happen. Just because I want a perfect Zodiac monk staff or a Kunnavang or go to the GWFC in Germany just because I bought the game doesnt mean it has to happen. Just take a look at how the PvP game has been with rewards, and then maybe youll realize that this is the way a game is.

JoeKnowMo · May 11, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

This Elite mission junk is an extremely poor idea. If even Gaile is avoiding talking about it, you know it is really backfiring.

People didn't like the idea of favor, so let's make things even worse by limiting access even more

Hmm, should I play Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry, OR farm Duel of the Houses (Kurz side) or Run the Stuff quest (on Luxon side)? If I want to be elite, I guess that means farm till I die.

I want my Skill over Grinding game back.

I liked the idea suggested by someone of gaining access to the Elite missions once you've completed all the missions with a Master's reward. Hell, if it also required that you finish every single quest, I'd be up for it too. However, grinding away ad nauseum is not my idea of fun. And I take it the majority of players who prefer GW over other grindfest MMORPGs agree with me.

It's bad enough that we were told we'd get as much content as the original game and then we find that Cantha is < 1/3 of Tyria. Now we're told that there is someplace we haven't seen but we have to go braindead farming ad infinitum (Latin is awesome

) to get there. Bad idea, Anet.

Racthoh · May 12, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

this is the only way to get at least a portion of players to continue playing pve..........sorry, but if you do this mission on a regular basis, ull grow bored in less than a week... there is not anything to be crafted there, so it cant really be compared to uw/fow...

I went to UW and FoW because they were a lot harder than any other area. I could care less about making some pretty armour, it was the challenge I was interested in. I hear 'elite mission' and think "this will be fun" not "ooo pretty new weapons".

Quote:

People didn't like the idea of favor, so let's make things even worse by limiting access even more

Very. I don't think I know of any PvE player that enjoyed the favor system, and then they introduce this gem. How about we restrict UW and FoW to the alliance that is holding halls as well.

lennymon · May 12, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Elite missions are cool, owning towns? cool if a little pointless except for prestige - but still very cool. The comlete limitation of access to the mission - I dont think its cool - perhaps just have a fee (like the 1k to enter UW/FoW) unless you are part of the controlling faction.

Banebow · May 12, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

Secondly, no one has responded to my orginal post about this being PvE's form of GWFC.

I'll take a crack at it, sorry for missing it.

The GWFC has very low "barriers of entry." That is, it is easy to enter the competition for a place in the event. Simply find 7 friends, gather approximately 15k for a guild hall, and you can take a shot at winning. Some players have a higher chance to win than others, and it will likely be mostly the same teams going each time, but everyone had a chance, no one was excluded (barring the guilds that have ANet members in them). I doubt I'll ever compete in one, but at least every season I give my all in an attempt to get in, and I don't feel like I am throwing my time away because someday the team I run with very well may get that high.

Access to an elite mission is based on control of a capital. The "barriers of entry" for competition over the control of a town are amazingly high, requiring 200+ people in a group that has farming requirements for every guild in that group. Unlike the GWFC, I know, with a total certainty, that I will never see the inside of an elite mission unless I bribe one of the guild members who controls the town. And not for a lack of skill, but for a lack of simple numbers. In its most basic form competition requires other people, and high "barriers of entry" exclude other people, limiting this competition to the few people in massive alliances. Who knows, tomorrow we may see an upset at the top of the ladder that replaces half the guilds who thought they would be going to the GWFC, but that won't happen with alliance capital control because no one is around to take it from the controller.

Actions speak louder than words, and ANet's actions say they believe PvE = farming. If that is true, then the system is perfect, for it rewards farming. But if ANet likes farming, they may as well un-nerf the 55 monk, return griffons to what they used to be, and stop making enemies walk out of aoe's. If ANet believes skill should be the determining factor in both PvP and PvE, then the current system for elite mission control does not support that. This is the point where total silence on the company's part is so utterly frustrating.

This is an important thing now, not just because the missions would be fun to enter (you say in your original post that the missions are boring, and they very well may be to everyone) but because future chapters may implement a similar system if no one expresses doubts about the current one.

Thallandor · May 12, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

To the OP, the sense of community is indeed very cool when you are in an alliance that control one of the key towns with access to Elite missions, until you realise that that 10k of factions you farm for the guild that day alone contributes to the a small fraction of the 10% amount thats being deleted when the Faction requirements reached millions as other Alliances starts stepping up the competition and once control is lost, droves of used to be community members start heading off to greener pastures. Unless of course the quota has been raised again per day..... Alliances can be a very fragile glass bowl in this context when the heat starts brewing. Have fun at it while it last.

No Elite missions? 15K armour anyone? I will still be looking forward to those and if Anet choose to make another "expansion" like this one at least we all have this bit of fair warning to go on and can choose to exercise our freedom of choice in consumerism (Rule of consumerism: The customer is always right but the problem is you are not the only one).

C3? Northern African terrain,blocky buildings, castles in the sky...rhino like mosters? lol sounds like i wont be looking forward to C3 after all.

Edit for spelling

Iori Shozu · May 12, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Guild wars was supposed to be a game where you could enjoy the community and make friends but could also enjoy spending time going through the game by yourself. Thus they had bots to help the loners. The major draw on the favor system was that there were gamers out there who simply wanted their country to hold favor, if for no other reason than to piss off the other countries who wanted in uw or fow. There were always groups fighting and as groups played more they got better and what do you know started winning favor. If people were that interested in going to uw or fow they would go group at heros and attempt to gain favor, creating more of a chance, the ones who didnt care so much would go off and farm something else. Thus linking the 2.

When factions was announced the ideas that were quickly thrown into our heads would be you choose a side of 2 battleing armies and fight to gain control of those territories. Now in my mind I envisioned guilds owning areas across the board and control changing as to who was on and fighting for control of a territory. If you conqured and moved into a new territory you left one open to be battled for by anyone, and the strongholds would be given to the most dedicated to their side guilds. I also envisioned that you didnt have to be in an owning guild to see benefits as that in your controling areas you would get discounts and have natural strengths against the enemies that spawned in a controled territory if you were alligned with that side, making it easier to travel your own side and harder to travel the opposing.

Instead I find a lackluster game based more on charging mobs and "ELITE" missions which are based on :alliance of 1000 members has x members who farm x hours of the day to keep control of main town for elite mission. Allying luxon or kurzick doesnt actually hold any benefit other than free access to that sides traders(otherwise you have to pay the priest at the shrines outside to use that merchant) so a-net basically turned a I farm to get money to get cool items game into a here have our good stuff and instead farm for faction which dont mean crap unless you want that sides armor type game. Why does everyone need to have a perfect 15>50 req9 with whatever on it, shouldnt the better stuff be saved for the people who want to put the effort in to get it. It doesnt really take away from the game if you only have a 11-21 req 12 fiery dragon sword. Perfect mods were out there so the people who put the time and effort in would have something to brag about and show for it. I remember when I started playing I spent 5 hours in pre-searing then left at lvl 7 went outside of ascalon by myself and got owned repeatedly by shatter golems, now they are a joke and I cap mineral springs before I turn lvl 5 occasionally, I hate when games dummy everything down for the less than average players who whine its too hard.

P.S. If the elite missions are so hard no pug can get through why not open them up to everyone and at least let them have fun trying? What is anet afraid they might have created another farmable place that people just have to find the right build for? I mean seriously you all have seen that most pugs dont make it through the first areas of uw and fow!!

Zehnchu · May 12, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

SeanHeartstone

Ture, but the still have the chance of getting to the end, the point is they can come and go as freely as they want to. And even if they don’t make it to the end they still get a reword for their work, Fame, Rank and Points for Unlocking upgrades, Rune’s, and skills. So even for them not making it to the end they still have something to show for it even if they don’t win HoH they don’t lose either. With the Region Favor system it rewards player’s who have really nothing to do and want something challenging with HoH being won in which ever Region you are in you can gain access to two elite areas FoW/UW, SoF was some what another reward for players.

This was a major complaint before, during, and after the FPE. They even said want at see, I’ve waited and I see that what everyone didn’t like about the system was far worse then what they thought. There is nothing that rewards player who have nothing to challenge them after the end game completed the all missions. What’s even worse is the insane amount of points alliance have to farm for just to get something new and rewarding. So where’s the reward for them? They worked just as hard as everyone else.

Let me add to the remark about GW is about rewarding farmers, first off in interview they have said time and time again it’s geared towards the casual gamer. Second they have a strict stance on farming and often ban people who are legit farmers for the own gain, yes it’s more common then you think. So if it’s about rewarding farmers then why take the stance on anti-farming? They have also stated they don’t want to force nor make people feel they have to do something. So can you show me the reward for the casual player who has worked just as hard as other players? Titles are not a reward why because everyone has them. And the casual player is now forced to log countless hours ignoring the “you have been playing for one hour take a break” message just so they can play an elite mission. I don’t think anyone’s going to quit their job just so they can waste hours to get the reward of an elite mission.

The comment made about more people have gained access to elite mission more then what people think is either them trying to justify it by trying to blow sun shine where the it’s not supposed to shine. Or you mean to tell me that there’s only five thousand people who play factions and the four thousand where able to get these mission while it’s the screw you to the others you haven’t worked hard enough because you refuse to not to have a life.

Don’t get me wrong I think owning a town is cool, and would be fun for a day and a big accomplishment just to have the Guild Emblem and name displayed. And I would still say that the current favor system to the elite missions is the worst idea to ever be implemented. The harm done is that they do not want to reward the casual player.

btw I am not a casual player...

hasse · May 12, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

1. Ive seen arguments that guildwars is all about skill and not time spent on a certain task, well how do you think you get skilfull? How do guilds accomplish great advancement in guildranks? Why do people claim the favour of the gods im HA? Doesent that mean certain obligations towards your guild / Friends if you want to be a part of it? Nothing new under the sky?

2. Guilds and Alliances have to focus and get really good at what they are doing. Guilds who aim for GvG-ladder play simply now recruit members for that purpouse. Guilds who aim for HA recruit high ranked people for HA-advancement. And Finally those who is really intrested in PvE form high end PvE guilds that join togeather to Monsterous Alliances for this purpouse.

3. The message that is sent is..... its simply impossible for a guild to be best at all 3 points at the same time cause lots of time and effort have to be spent individaully in all three different areas.

4. I think of it as a type of favour (as in ToA) yet its not bounded to a specific server.... Naturally because Alliances would have to invite many friends to form as many parties as possible just because every guildmember / alliancemember would love to participate in theese Missions simply because they all did contribute to the total amount of fractionfarming.

Those of us who are in the average guild / alliance we have to settle with ocassional claimage of ex. claim House zu Heltser for a short period of time or participate through friends when a spot is free

Ps. Wouldnt it be a great feeling to partisipate in a Elite mission when you know its not a wery common thing? Ds.

frickaline · May 12, 2006, 12:19 PM // 12:19

I really think there is no valid defense for the exclusion of others from these 2 special areas. I creates the "E-bayers" environment that seems utterly contrary to the original mission and mentality of Guild Wars.

Welcome back to Diablo II.

Engel the Fallen · May 12, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuna of spira

Secondly, no one has responded to my orginal post about this being PvE's form of GWFC.

I will respond

The problem I see is that this is not like GWFC. According to Gaile the guys in our guild and others are not LEET enough for this mission. According to many our team could not finish this as a guild group. Most already know this is BS. It is not the mission that is the problem but the means of access. In PvP it is pure skill to make it. Anyone can grind enough for 8 skill points to get a PvP build but build means so little. If we took any player and added him to the MEAT core even with a build he would be so totally lost that odds are after a weeks he still would not understand the stuff our core does in PvP.

Now take that same random player put him in one of the big alliances and tell him he needs to do x mission 13 times a day and he can easily figure out how to do it. Grinding a mission really does not take much skill at all. Just time.

People can hold records for the competitive missions, which would mean they are the best PvE players in that area, yet still not be considered good enough to get into elite missions.

The main issue is not that these mission do not require some skill, but skill means nothing to access. By simple logic of ANET now, the most leet players are the bot farmers from China, as they could easily out grind any human playing running a handful of bots in a sweatshop. So through ANET logic bots deserve access to this area more than human players.

Which brings the arguement back to what people been saying. This is a matter of time > skill. In PvP time does not equal skill at all, but now for PvE it does. There is no challenge for PvE guys who farm faction, nor will they get any better since PvE is for the most far unchanging and the same stuff over and over again.

I can see ANET reward farmers, but don't farmers already get good rewards for there work in perfect rare items that come with the turf?