Curse

fb2000 · May 24, 2006, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, you are wrong. It doesn't matter how righteous you think you are, you are still wrong. The -5 is a condition that constantly effects off your max energy, and is impossible to not meet. When people talk about unconditional in GW, they mean with no side-effect of the mod on the weapon. This is not a contestable linguistic fact, that is what people mean when they talk about unconditional damage weapons in Guild Wars.

Points made, no such thing anymore, thread needs to be closed, etcetc.

i mightve not expressed my thoughts properly there ^^ its kinda early ^_^.

point taken on the OMFG PLZ CLOSE THIS THREAD ^^

PS i still dont perceive -5/-10 as a condition tho :F

Cirian · May 24, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

+15% damage, -5 Energy are unconditional bonuses and penalties.

There are no requirements to recieve either the bonus or the penalty, which by definition makes it unconditional. By definition dammit!

Peace

fenix · May 24, 2006, 01:14 PM // 13:14

...Don't you people understand yet? There IS a requirement to get the bonus, it's either lower energy or armor. The only difference is that you get the damage bonus all the time, as the condition is different. I'll write it so you can all understand:

Furious Long Sword of Enchanting
+15% Damage (while health is over 50%)

OR,

+15% Damage
-5 Energy

Seem different? The energy one can be written like this, and have the same meaning:

+15% Damage (-5 Energy)

Mai · May 24, 2006, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon

...Don't you people understand yet? There IS a requirement to get the bonus, it's either lower energy or armor. The only difference is that you get the damage bonus all the time, as the condition is different. I'll write it so you can all understand:

Furious Long Sword of Enchanting
+15% Damage (while health is over 50%)

OR,

+15% Damage
-5 Energy

Seem different? The energy one can be written like this, and have the same meaning:

+15% Damage (-5 Energy)

Quoted for truth

Seriously how did this thread reach 2 pages when it's one of the most simple and obvious things to see in my opinion.

Hoyt · May 24, 2006, 02:12 PM // 14:12

This is my favorite thread EVER!
To those of you fueling the fire...*grin* Now, you stop it.
To those of you getting your panties in a bunch over semantics and what not...*sigh* Oh, calm down.
What was the question again?

Uzul · May 24, 2006, 02:34 PM // 14:34

yay - splitting hairs!

hope you all brought your unconditional hair-splitting scissors of pea-counting.
________
weapons with a damage mod and without any drawback exist - but they dropped a loooooong time ago - and when they dropped they HAD a drawback - but since it was the same drawback that one of the weapon mods would give you the actualy drawback was overridden (bug) - so after removing the upgrade that would give the drawback you could make a "15% always without any penalty" weapon - which is priceless.

"skill over time" is getting hit hard everytime i realise that there are things that not everyone can have anymore - which give an advantage if you got one in the past.

edit: just analysed join-dates of the posters in this thread - all people who have been around shortly after release are aware of the guildwars-term "unconditional weapon" -- everyone who came long after that "tengu-incident" is now splitting hairs for the other side: saying -5e and -10e wouldn't be a condition - thus' call these items "uncondtional"... fun ^^ (disclaimer: not fitting on everyone - if you want to flame - be prepared to be ignored ^^)

splitting hairs in forums - ancient tradition, curse and comedy...

G.S. · May 24, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by talon

...Don't you people understand yet? There IS a requirement to get the bonus, it's either lower energy or armor. The only difference is that you get the damage bonus all the time, as the condition is different. I'll write it so you can all understand:

Furious Long Sword of Enchanting
+15% Damage (while health is over 50%)

OR,

+15% Damage
-5 Energy

Seem different? The energy one can be written like this, and have the same meaning:

+15% Damage (-5 Energy)

I really don't understand how can you call -5 or -10 requirements. It is not required to have -5 energy or -10 armor. You can call it a condition maybe, but not a requirement.

ricocheting · May 24, 2006, 07:10 PM // 19:10

um, a condition is:
IF health is above 50% THEN +15% damage

that's how conditions work. you can't logically say
IF your armor is -10 THEN +15% damage
because thats an 'always.' sure it's a penalty, but it has nothing to do with a condition you have to meet

Chicken Ftw · May 24, 2006, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Sorry, you are wrong. It doesn't matter how righteous you think you are, you are still wrong. The -5 is a condition that constantly effects off your max energy, and is impossible to not meet. When people talk about unconditional in GW, they mean with no side-effect of the mod on the weapon. This is not a contestable linguistic fact, that is what people mean when they talk about unconditional damage weapons in Guild Wars.

Points made, no such thing anymore, thread needs to be closed, etcetc.

Qft, with highlights, for people who can't comprehend/didn't read it. Whee.

G.S. · May 24, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricocheting

um, a condition is:
IF health is above 50% THEN +15% damage

that's how conditions work. you can't logically say
IF your armor is -10 THEN +15% damage
because thats an 'always.' sure it's a penalty, but it has nothing to do with a condition you have to meet

But it is also possible to understand it as
IF "the mod on the weapon is -10 armor" THEN +15% damage.
At least I think it is. Doesn't sound very good, but still...

gabrial heart · May 24, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I got a zodiac sword that had the negative armor while attacking mod with the +15% all the time. It's pretty much a given the 15>50 is the best mod for physical weapons. Although a warrior with 100 AL could easily work with a -10% while attack mod and prolly do pretty well. +35% all the time (+20% for customizing) is a nice damage enhancement, IMO. Degeners and lightning/obsidian spikers still can pwn a warrior though, no matter the AL.

Wildi · May 24, 2006, 07:49 PM // 19:49

words like conditional & penalty are crapshit, use "weapon with bonus damage and no drawbacks"

Ghozer · May 24, 2006, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Slashing Damage: 11-22 (req. 8 Swordsmanship)
+15% (Whilst health is above 50%)
= Conditional

Slashing Damage: 11-22 (req. 8 Swordsmanship)
+15%
-5 Energy
= Unconditional

Its basically, "There are no conditions needed to gain the +15% damage"

if it was things like without the -5, it would be no penalties, not unconditional..

gabrial heart · May 24, 2006, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.S.

But it is also possible to understand it as
IF "the mod on the weapon is -10 armor" THEN +15% damage.
At least I think it is. Doesn't sound very good, but still...

Wonder if you can take the +5 energy mod off the endgame crafter weapons and slap them on a -5 e weapon +15 all the time replacing the -5 e mod... Now that would prove that those weapons are UNCONDITIONAL

If it takes off both stats, then there ya go...

jimmyhats · May 24, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

i cant believe there is actually an argument over this matter. a testament to the stupidity of your averge player methinks.

for all intents and purposes, IN REFERANCE TO GUILD WARS... condition and penalty are the same thing. please restrain yourself from quoting the dictionary at me to tell me that they arent the same. we are talking guildwars here people.

Ghozer · May 24, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

actually jimmyhats - your wrong, condition and penalty is not the same thing in Guild Wars...

+15% (Whilst health is above 50%) - thats a requirement, it means you can have the +15% damage, but only under the condition that you have more than 50% health... thats not a penalty...

a penalty would be...
+15% (Whilst health is above 50% else dmg -15% if health below 50%)

hence -5 is a penalty, not a condition... if the -5 was a condition, that would mean you would be required to take off 5 energy by some method (other than the item in question) to beable to use it.. but no, the item takes it off, so it gives you the +15% WITHOUT CONDITION, but as a result your penalised, by the fact it removes 5 energy.

G.S. · May 24, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghozer

Slashing Damage: 11-22 (req. 8 Swordsmanship)
+15% (Whilst health is above 50%)
= Conditional

If you have more then 50% health, you gain +15% bonus. Conditional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghozer

Slashing Damage: 11-22 (req. 8 Swordsmanship)
+15%
-5 Energy
= Unconditional

If the weapon has -5 energy, you gain +15% bonus. Conditional.

You might be right, I might be right, it doesn't matter anyway.
The -5/-10 weapons will still be called "dmg always weapons", and the weapons that have only the damage bonus will be called uncoditional.

jimmyhats · May 24, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

like i said... proving the stupidity of the avg. player.

edit:spelling

Tigris Of Gaul · May 24, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

words like conditional & penalty are crapshit, use "weapon with bonus damage and no drawbacks"

This man speaks the truth. Wow, people are stupid. "Conditional means the condition is your weapon having that penalty" - um, no.

Mai · May 24, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

This thread makes me lol

Continue on!