Curse

makosi · May 10, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

You can ebay a tiger.
You can ebay FoW armour.

Philosophically speaking, these are both untrustworthy sources of information regarding a player's skill and, therefore, you can't make informed decisions on them. I don't care who is in my PvE Pug. What matters is that there is some sort of healing and some sort of varying damage dealing.

If someone is flashing their tiger in a PvE place and saying "RANK 9 NECRO LFG", simply say something like: "E-bay tiger ftw" in local chat. They will probably then get their knickers in a twist and spam abuse at you. Then you say, "was i speaking about you? or do you have a guilty conscience about having an ebay tiger?". Running through a crowd with your tiger is ostentatious, elitist and irrelivent in PvE. Can you imagine me going to HA and saying "Protector of Tyria LFG" ? Why does it matter that I have done all missions and bonuses in the PvP environment?

I don't dislike people with rank, in fact I speak to lots of them in game. The crux of the argument is that PvE and PvP are two separate entities and should be left at that.

Divineshadows · May 10, 2006, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohooiam

ranked pvp players tend to have experience when it comes to organization.

that can't be said for your average pve pug.

The emphasis here should be on the word tend. Rank means nothing as the player could have just ebayed to buy the account from somebody else or payed for a fame farming service.

It should be pointed out, however, that a lot of PvP experience does make an individual player's skill better at PvE than they were before they had PvP experience. Why? Because you better understand concepts like energy management, the importantance of disruption, how to maximize damage, and what the skills on your bar are actually supposed to do.

The reverse is also true. Take a player who has only ever done PvP and asking them to join you in a high level PvE area such as PvE tombs (true story with a guildmate of mine) is a formula for disaster. The damage formulas in this game are highly dependant upon level differentials and facing level 28 enemies puts you at a steep disadvantage on damage inflicted vs. damage received. Armor ignoring damage is really great against level 24+ enemies.

I really like the format of the Factions missions as they force a different kind of playstyle if you want get the Expert and/or the Master objectives. Time is of the essence in these missions and things like energy management, damage per second, and focus firing really come into play if you want to get the higher objectives. The sad thing is that I joined an "average pve pug" with my completely unlocked level 20 Prophecies monk using strong healing, energy management, condition and hex removal for Vizunah Square and the mission took 32 minutes to complete. I later did the mission with my level 18 assasin with 7 henchman and completed the mission in 28 minutes and did not even have any deaths on my team. How can this be explained? The average PvE pug plays too defensively and worries about not dying first and killing second. In addition, they do not often focus fire. For my assasin, I had maxed dagger mastery (at least the max I could have at the time) with high critical strikes and some spare points in shadow arts for a little defense. Knowing the deep wound mechanic (twisting fangs ftw) and that it knocks off 20% of a foe's health made for some quick killing. The quicker you kill the enemies, the less damage they get to do to your team. Warriors just have to watch out when using frenzy and having one of the afflicted putrid explosion on you as this will definately freak your monks.

I expect that there are plenty of good PvE players out there who have never played PvP who are already adapting and will continue to adapt to this new playstyle for Factions missions. This playstyle really is more fun as it keeps the game fast paced and makes the missions seem like less of a grind.

JoeKnowMo · May 11, 2006, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Unfortunately, neither loads of PvP or PvE experience demonstrates that the person has the ability to tweak their builds, which to me is the key to beating PvE.

There are too many times when I've been with a group that dies during a mission/quest, and as soon we port back to the town/outpost, ppl are like "Hurry up, let's go again." Same team, same skills; what makes them think that we'll do better a second time...

At least with henchies, u can pick and choose offense or defense or interrupts for you team that you feel is well suited to the mission.

For all the B/P rangers in tombs, very few even know about using Mark of Pain, for example, to increase their damage. I was impressed also by a Kurzick team in Fort Aspenwood where the monks bonded the hell out of Gunther. Other team didn't have enchant removal, so even with the turtles at the door, they weren't able to kill the NPC.

Players that think ftw

rocinantae · May 11, 2006, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetest

pvpers > pvers in pve.
pvpers are generally better players, who have played in more situtations and know how to react to differnt cases.
the first group of people to beat the kurzick elite mission was a group of people from top guilds.
when factions came out 80% of the people in the last few missions of the game were all from pvp guilds.

and when i say pvpers i mean top level players not your average tombs scrub.

because these people actually know how to work as a team, dont play like retards, and have a basic understanding of the concepts of the game.
in pve you play with people who bring self sufficiant skills, dont know how to work as a team, and are used to playing only 1 build.
where as in pvp its the opposite.
in pvp you are given a skill bar and you use the 8 skills to maximise your contribution to the team, whereas in pve, you bring whatever you want as long as its in the cookie cutter guideline , (nuker, b/p, ss , mm, etc)
and being able to play any build given to you , rather then 1 build u play for every pve thing you do shows skill.

whenever me and my guildies do pve we try to only get people that we know, then when we're forced to get a pick up, we ask what their skill bar is, and if its retarded we kick.

and just because we pvp doesnt mean we're bad at pve.

pvpers > pvers @ pve.

someone prove me wrong.

That would only be true because on average pvpers play more. Most pve people are more relaxed, have jobs,school, or are kids, e.t.c.

j_unit66 · May 11, 2006, 01:54 AM // 01:54

my theory is the people who are useing rank to find others for missions etc. (not pvp) are people who have bought ranked accounts on ebay and really have no idea what rank is for, wich will also explain the rank3+ team returning 4 times for failing the mission

Akhilleus · May 12, 2006, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweetest

pvpers > pvers in pve.
pvpers are generally better players, who have played in more situtations and know how to react to differnt cases.
the first group of people to beat the kurzick elite mission was a group of people from top guilds.
when factions came out 80% of the people in the last few missions of the game were all from pvp guilds.

and when i say pvpers i mean top level players not your average tombs scrub.

because these people actually know how to work as a team, dont play like retards, and have a basic understanding of the concepts of the game.
in pve you play with people who bring self sufficiant skills, dont know how to work as a team, and are used to playing only 1 build.
where as in pvp its the opposite.
in pvp you are given a skill bar and you use the 8 skills to maximise your contribution to the team, whereas in pve, you bring whatever you want as long as its in the cookie cutter guideline , (nuker, b/p, ss , mm, etc)
and being able to play any build given to you , rather then 1 build u play for every pve thing you do shows skill.

whenever me and my guildies do pve we try to only get people that we know, then when we're forced to get a pick up, we ask what their skill bar is, and if its retarded we kick.

and just because we pvp doesnt mean we're bad at pve.

pvpers > pvers @ pve.

someone prove me wrong.

the reason you've seen such poor pve players is your arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude drives off any player with any semblance of rational thought.

CorstedPirate · May 12, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Honestly, I do wonder what in the world a PvP rank has to do with PvE. I have only bothered with RA or TA a couple of times. Never even tried HA or HoH.

I am a PvE junkie. I have farmed a little bit, but haven't put that much time into it. Mostly I have just been wandering around doing whatever. That is how I like it, too. I am not able to play all day every day do to the influences of the world. I did get the Protector of Tyria title on my monk. So many anxious moments with PUG's there. So many new friends made, so many idiots met. I look forward to plenty of the same with Cantha.

When I am advertising for group members these days, I merely ask for level 20 characters. The mainland missions have some very hard hitting beasts, such damage requires characters that have more hit points. I don't want someone in my party that it will drain me to keep alive. There is the whole group to consider after all.

It is nice to think when going for your third mission sword that you are getting people that are experienced. As long as newbies follow directions given there should be no problem though. It isn't fair to expect someone to follow directions when they are treated rudely however. So many people that play this game seem to have a serious lack of manners. They treat new people terribly as well. If someone is new, explain to them afterwards why something needed to be done a certian way.

EF2NYD · May 12, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Most ranked players know how to press T.

General Surena · May 12, 2006, 10:20 AM // 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

two words...

"hench it"

You can complete most, if not all, of factions with hench. I got up to eternal grove with hench, then I started going half-hench because You ened splitability in eternal grove and you need at least 2 human players to properly to unwaking waters for the res orbs.

Just grab hench

They know how to follow called targets better too.

Eternal Grove and Unwaking Waters are both henchable. While the first requires a good reaction and overview, the latter just a bit patience and time. I always pulled a bit back so that Kuunavang would not mix up with the swarm of mobs, then charged in. There was a crucial moment though where I had to run back to the res orb but it worked fine in the end. Raisu-Palace and the last mission do not require humans either. I truly love the Domination and Interrupter-Henchies.

As long as you bring team-supplemental skills like a second "shields up" (Lukas got one), watch yourself or blinding skills you shouldn't have any doubts about your fellows.

TriX · May 12, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

GLF 4 more, Black FOW armor, max crystalline sword, bone dragon pet required

TriX · May 12, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo

Unfortunately, neither loads of PvP or PvE experience demonstrates that the person has the ability to tweak their builds, which to me is the key to beating PvE.

There are too many times when I've been with a group that dies during a mission/quest, and as soon we port back to the town/outpost, ppl are like "Hurry up, let's go again." Same team, same skills; what makes them think that we'll do better a second time...

At least with henchies, u can pick and choose offense or defense or interrupts for you team that you feel is well suited to the mission.

For all the B/P rangers in tombs, very few even know about using Mark of Pain, for example, to increase their damage. I was impressed also by a Kurzick team in Fort Aspenwood where the monks bonded the hell out of Gunther. Other team didn't have enchant removal, so even with the turtles at the door, they weren't able to kill the NPC.

Players that think ftw

Mark of Pain triggers the mobs to spread after being hit by it for more than 4 seconds. This reduces the ability of barrage to hit multiple targets. I don't think that 4 seconds of shadow dmg is worth the lessened impact of barrage.

Hiero · May 12, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

I don't play much PvP, maybe once a week I participate in GvG when there is a shortage of monks. Frankly, I just don't really like it. I do however have a ranger with the title Protector of Tyria, and only need 3 more bonuses for the same title on my monk. Over the months I have seen my friendlist grow, with people that, like me play and enjoy PvE, some have ranks some don't. And I never noticed a difference between them. I've seen r9+ players agro far too much and kill everyone and I've seen unranked people do this.

I play GW for fun, I do missions and quests with other people for fun. I don't care what rank anyone is, I don't care if someone doesn't have 15k armor, if people just listen a little to eachother and show some respect for other people they are welcome in my groups regardless of class.

I don't care if people form groups r9+ for PvE, however I won't join them even if they would want me (that protector title is a magnet for invites). I hope they realise that by forming these groups they are probably missing out on some of the most skilled PvE players ingame.

-Old 3FL- · May 12, 2006, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

You are my hero.

y thank you

Vahn Roi · May 12, 2006, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriX

Mark of Pain triggers the mobs to spread after being hit by it for more than 4 seconds. This reduces the ability of barrage to hit multiple targets. I don't think that 4 seconds of shadow dmg is worth the lessened impact of barrage.

maybe he meant to say Order of Pain?

Effendi Westland · May 12, 2006, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriX

Mark of Pain triggers the mobs to spread after being hit by it for more than 4 seconds. This reduces the ability of barrage to hit multiple targets. I don't think that 4 seconds of shadow dmg is worth the lessened impact of barrage.

Then you haven't seen MoP in use in Tombs, minions everywhere, pets aplenty, and narrow corridors + easy block points means that MoP will be very efficient. The AI on MoP is different from say MS, when MoP is triggered only the one with MoP on it will try to run and if you get the one in front he's basically just gonna stand there and try and find a path to run to, but its all blocked.

O how I love the sight of 20x -30 on my screen... maybe i'll go in tonight

Cymboric Treewalker · May 12, 2006, 02:46 PM // 14:46

[sarcasm]

I accept survivors ONLY in to my group and no PvP deer flasher is gonna have that.

[/sarcasm]

JoeKnowMo · May 13, 2006, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Then you haven't seen MoP in use in Tombs, minions everywhere, pets aplenty, and narrow corridors + easy block points means that MoP will be very efficient. The AI on MoP is different from say MS, when MoP is triggered only the one with MoP on it will try to run and if you get the one in front he's basically just gonna stand there and try and find a path to run to, but its all blocked.

O how I love the sight of 20x -30 on my screen... maybe i'll go in tonight

Yep, this has been my experience. Only the one with MoP runs and rarely manages to get away. The multiple 30s on your screen from your dual shot/barrage and others' barrage is a sight to behold.

Sir Mad · May 13, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vahn Roi

maybe he meant to say Order of Pain?

Then all the barragers/necros/anyone who has heard of barrage groups know that

Actually it's pretty hard for a barrager to come with something that add extra damage. Judge's Insight is good but you'll run out of energy if you use it all the time. Personally, I use use it most of time against skellies in FoW for example, and never in the tombs where its only effect is the 20% armor penetration. The same goes for most of those skills - rangers even with a full druid have enough energy to use barrage all the time and some interupts and such, but not to spam this kind of skills.

Quote:

GLF 4 more, Black FOW armor, max crystalline sword, bone dragon pet required

Henchman lfp!

SziP · May 13, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_unit66

my theory is the people who are useing rank to find others for missions etc. (not pvp) are people who have bought ranked accounts on ebay and really have no idea what rank is for, wich will also explain the rank3+ team returning 4 times for failing the mission

ROFLMAO. Yah dude i bough my account off ebay....ahahaha like i have nothing better to do than pay ....800$ and go in groups i have no idea what they are talking about.
And sorry, ranked people have a pretty good idea how to play PvE because in the first days of Factions the only people that were far in the game where rank6-9 people. I dont care what u say because i saw it with my own eyes.

i PvP-ed alot!, i was struggling sooo much, i almost gave up Guild Wars because it was not worth it at the time. Now that im ranked, i can find groups in no time, and i can play in HA , and have fun !!!! There is not a single run in HA where someone doesnt say something funny or stupid that makes everyone laugh. like.....when the battle is about to start and its quiet....someone says....Y M C A!!!!!!

Most of the PvP-ers are done with the PvE part of Factions now they went back , at GvG , Tombs, TA,Allience Battles.(im still trying to finish the game with my wammo )

i havent read the rest of the threat, but i will later on.

Samueldg · May 30, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by SziP

ROFLMAO. Yah dude i bough my account off ebay....ahahaha like i have nothing better to do than pay ....800$ and go in groups i have no idea what they are talking about.
And sorry, ranked people have a pretty good idea how to play PvE because in the first days of Factions the only people that were far in the game where rank6-9 people. I dont care what u say because i saw it with my own eyes.

i PvP-ed alot!, i was struggling sooo much, i almost gave up Guild Wars because it was not worth it at the time. Now that im ranked, i can find groups in no time, and i can play in HA , and have fun !!!! There is not a single run in HA where someone doesnt say something funny or stupid that makes everyone laugh. like.....when the battle is about to start and its quiet....someone says....Y M C A!!!!!!

Most of the PvP-ers are done with the PvE part of Factions now they went back , at GvG , Tombs, TA,Allience Battles.(im still trying to finish the game with my wammo )

i havent read the rest of the threat, but i will later on.

this is the same generalization BS Ive come to expect..

the Second day ( including the preview day ) I was in imperial sanctum with my MM .. there was around 10 people there for the bulk of the day... notone I saw had thier rank title in use.. most where farmers lookin for the hot spots to farm..

please dont assume no one actually made it and you can come up with some BS theory thinking none of us where actually THERE>>