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Jun 21, 2006, 02:05 PM // 14:05
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#1 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]
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Untested Urgoz's Warren Team Build
If you want to tell me I need more trappers in my build, dont. Im not interested, not even vaguely.
Just like to share what is my working, untested Urgoz's Warren team build, designed so [RFE] members would be able to form a group and get gone quicker (because forming a 12 man party is a pain). It is designed specifically to handle all the normal monsters which you encounter there, as well as be resilient to the team killing boss - error 7. 1 - W/x Armor/Stance Tank 2 - N/Me SS/BR 3 - N/Rt Discord Bomber 4 - N/Mo BIP'er 5 - Me/Mo Fevered Rezmer 6 - R/A Broad Head Arrow 7 - R/Mo Barrage Trapper w/ EoE 8 - E/Mo Fire & Healing 9 - Rt/x Spirit Spammer 10 - Mo/x Spell Breaker 11 - Mo/x 12 - Mo/x A quick couple notes about each persons role, and why I have some of the things set up as is. The tank is fairly basic stuff. Theres too much to interupt for him to worry about it, and similiarly the sheer number of enemies prevents ripostes being useful anywhere but against the Thorn Wolves... and we have other ways to deal with them. Theoretically you can do without this. But, I feel naked without a tank in the party. He carries Sprint and Rebirth, ideally, as they both serve a specific purpose. The rebirth for getting someone atop the bridge, and sprint because... Have you ever ran away from a fight at normal speed, then return to try to, say, rez your teammates, or try to engage the enemy again, only to have them run up to you, from far off, even if you didnt re-aggro them? When this happens simply have someone in your party return to aggro them (get inside their circle) then use a speed boost to run away. This will reset their AI to normal - they wont chase you down. THIS is why you bring a speed boost. Spiteful Spirit is basic. Defile Flesh serves an obvious purpose - bringing a single target down. Blood Ritual is incase the BIP'er drops and you need to A) keep the monks energy up B) sac. See next. The Discord Bomber is a fun build (its what Id like to play). The BIP'er sacs himself to death while the trappers trap, and the bomber raises Minions from his corpse. Five sacs will get you a full group of 10 undead minions, keeping the BIP'er at high DP in order to minimize his health sacrifice costs. As the battle begins, the bomber holds back. He casts Death Nova on each of his minions, not allowing them to engage. Then he casts Signet of Creation. A few seconds later, he engages the enemy. The minions run in, and all die at the same time, delivering a 1,050 dmg armor ignoring aoe spike [sic]. He then uses Putrid Explosion for more armor ignoring aoe damage, then can spread disease for pressure, and as a primer for his DD spam, Discord. He also has Malign Intervention to help bring down a single target. He has a slot left over for FomF, as well. The BIP'er is a hybrid build, a true backline character. He will be with 60 dp constantly, and an aggro bubble away from the monks... ideally half a radar compass from the badies. He has 13 Blood to meet the +6 breakpoint for BIP. He also runs Order of Pain to add a bit of occassional damage. Rebirth is on his skillbar, as he is most likely to be way-away when something goes bad. Since he will certainly be running a 20% longer enchant mod, he can probably take advantage of his Monk secondary to bring Aegis or similar enchants. Heal Party is always nice, and Mending actually provides an excellent heal-over-time as he will likely never be at full health. Should he get aggro he should run away. The Fevered Rezmer is a powerful build, if not one with alot of damage.. numbers. He uses Fevered Dreams on a called target so his teammates can easily apply conditions over an area - most notably 'Dazed' coming from the Broad Head Arrow Ranger. His Phantom Pain causes 'Deep Wound' over an area, as well as some degen. He uses his fast cast to expediantly remove hexes, and use Restore Life on a sacrificed teammate. Illusion of Weakness is a possible defensive skill, as is Distortion. Energy Tap provides the energy necessary to keep healing. Conjure Phantasm plus Mantra of Persistance allows him to deal a very significant amount of degen to anyone who is not already at more then -5 pips. The Broad Head Arrow ranger is specced pure marksmanship and expertise. He uses Dual Shot to combo with the Order of Pain, and Savage because its alot of damage, easily useable. Throw Dirt serves an obvious purpose - blinding anything Dust Trap didnt. Dodge allows him to reset aggro, and gives a nice evasion bonus. Death's Charge / Recall is so that in the dual Bark room he can teleport up to the Bark and pull it so that the rest of the team can gank it. Similiarly, he can return to the party via cancelling Recall. (Ive heard this works, I have not tested it) The Barrage Trapper is a counter-intuitive build, as his elite has no attribute points dedicated to it. He is instead specced pure Wilderness Survival and Expertise, with enough into Beast Mastery to make Edge of Extinction useable. His Barrage is merely for its interupting power, against the widely spread dazed condition caused by the Fevered Rezmer and Broad Head Arrow ranger. He uses his traps defensively, to provide a safe haven for the casters.. specifically against the Thorn Wolves, where Blind+Displacement strips the Thorn Wolves of any threat they might pose. The last of the offensively minded characters is an E/Mo who uses Fire to burninate the peasants, and healing because he can afford it and it adds resilience to the build. The elite should be energy management related, be it Prodigy, or Second Wind, or Energy Boon... he should have a pair of 15/-1 if its Second Wind, and be able to coordinate with his fellow casters for a cover enchantment (or alot of decoys, as per Aegis) to prevent him being a target for stripping. So the Ritual Lord... I dont feel like I really have to justify their presence in Urgoz. It should go unspoken. Wardens like to spike Energy Surge. This hurts. Alot. This is why we have a Spell Breaker Monk, running Blessed Aura. Cast it on the tank before he runs in, and good game - you just stopped their spikes.. at least long enough to bring the bombs in. He should consider running skills to take advantage of the Blessed Aura, be they Healing (Vigorous Spirit, Healing Breeze) or Protection (Aegis, Shielding Hands, etc). Heal Party is always good to have with a team of 12. The last two members of the party are monks, plain and simple. Not because I think we need 3 Monks, an E/Mo, and a Ritual Lord with a BIP backline... but because having a crucial party member SUCKS and I dont want to be left with a crippled team again. This is for resiliency. I originally had another Ranger in, and while itd slightly speed up the kill speed, I believe that this is far better in the long run. I like Blessed Light myself, but nomatter how you cut it you need a few things - Protective Spirit, Heal Party, a Signet heal (or two), and condition removal. And now what Im thinking whats ideal for each of the party members. Note, I suck at building Mesmers and Rangers. W/Mo Dolyak Watch Yourself Shield's Up Shield Stance Gladiator's Defense Endure Pain Sprint Rebirth N/Me Spiteful Spirit Arcane Echo Reckless Haste Blood Ritual Awaken the Blood Desecrate Enchantments Defile Enchantments Defile Flesh N/Rt Animate Bone Minions Death Nova Signet of Creation Putrid Explosion Rotting Flesh Malign Intervention Discord Flesh of my Flesh N/Mo 13 Blood 8+ Healing some prot, rest in SR 20% longer enchant mod Blood Is Power Order of Pain Healing Breeze Gift of Health Heal Party Mending Aegis Rebirth Me/Mo Fevered Dreams Phantom Pain Conjure Phantasm Energy Tap Mantra of Persistance Remove Hexes Illusion of Weakness // Distortion Restore Life R/A Broad Head Arrow Dual Shot Savage Shot Dodge Throw Dirt Death's Charge Recall Rez Sig R/Mo (or R/Rt) Barrage Barbed Trap Dust Trap Flame Trap Snare // Throw Dirt // Troll Ungent Edge of Extinction Dodge (Rez of choice) E/Mo Rodgort's Invocation Fireball Meteor Shower Fire Attunement Ether Prodigy // Second Wind // Energy Boon Heal Party Heal Other Rebirth Rt/Me Shadow Song Shelter Union Displacement Ritual Lord Boon of Creation Mantra of Concentration Flesh of my Flesh I plan to field test this today/tomorow... leave your info if you want to come (must have Ventrilo). Watch for my upcoming comprehensive Urgoz's Warren guide... its several pages long, and not halfway done! Last edited by ubermancer; Jun 24, 2006 at 04:07 PM // 16:07.. |
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Jun 21, 2006, 02:43 PM // 14:43
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#2 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kanuckistan
Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW]
Profession: R/
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You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and that's great, but your build is way too slow. All the sac'ing and minion building takes too much time.
Our alliance runs it in less than 2 1/2 hours with a pretty simple build. 2 trappers, 4 ms nukers, 1 mes, 1 rt, 1 bip and 3 heal monks. eoe up at all times, lay down a few traps, pull, nuke songs and gardeners at the back first. Rinse and repeat. One run a few days ago we were flawless up to the room with the wardens, and even then only suffered a couple deaths. Pretty simple stuff. |
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Jun 21, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17
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#3 |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]
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Yeah... you see the trappers are laying traps. And whats the saccer, MM, and rezmer doing? Building up an army. Takes less time then getting a full set of traps up... dont even need a full army. Im pretty sure a 420 damage armor ignoring aoe spike will be sufficient, and can be achieved in around 15 seconds of prep time. And it serves a dual purpose of keeping the BIP'er at low hp.
So I dont see how you think the minion bombing takes too long when its actually faster then trappers. Also, there is no need to do the bombing during alot of it, like the labyrinth. Then, he utilizes Putrid Explosion incase your trapper happens to be incompetent and doesnt understand the importance of staggering your traps, resulting in only the first couple Thorn Wolves being disabled and dead. (though ideally you will have all competent guildies, this simply doesnt always happen) Anything short of a Vengeful Aatxe will die if you toss enough meteor showers on it. It is far from being my objective to find a build where you have "8 of this, 2 of this, 1 each of these two". Sure, an earth ele tank, 8 sacrifice+ms+promise eles, a trapper, and 2 monks would work wonderfully, hillariously, even... but that just feels like a PUG to me. Everyone having a destinct, redundant role with a unique twist is how I like to build my teams. On the flip side, I must congratulate you on not having 5 trappers, like most PUG's seem to believe is necessary. |
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Jun 22, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49
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#4 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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one trapper to lay dust traps by casters and eoe is more than enough... problem is i can't convince people in local that they dont need 4 trappers and 4 monks...
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Jun 22, 2006, 12:59 AM // 00:59
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#5 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]
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Quote:
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Jun 22, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26
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#6 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kanuckistan
Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW]
Profession: R/
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Dust trap with eoe and a spirit will hold them more than long enough to nuke, it's pretty simple really. The number of WaMo's pm'ing us that we need them to tank is amazing. And ya, 2 trappers can lay 3-4 traps each just fast enough for MS to recharge. gg.
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Jun 22, 2006, 03:52 AM // 03:52
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#7 | |
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hamonite anur ruk
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Echovald Forest
Guild: [PhD] Teh Academy
Profession: Me/A
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Quote:
Our best time was one hour and fourty five minutes. Average is two hours. |
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Jun 23, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11
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#8 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fullerton, Ca.
Guild: CDXX/THE420TH.COM
Profession: Mo/Me
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we use this:
4 trappers 1 SS 2 Nukers (echo) 3 monks 1 Biper 1 Rit/lord Works well fast effective and efficient! 1hour 35 to warden room which is 2 rooms away from urgoz! Due keep in mind were not stopping for chest or anything just rolling along, trap-pull-nuke rinse repeat etc. its so fun that were bored with Urgoz right now. trying the DEEP! |
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Jun 23, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22
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#9 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kanuckistan
Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW]
Profession: R/
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For the deep, use 3 tanks that know how to body block, 1 SS, 1 BiP, 3 nukers and 4 monks. Can sub a monk for a Rt or an Ele for trapper or whatever. Have both necro bring shivers and ele's should all have an enchantment removal.
If you have tanks that know what they are doing, and have a decent group, takes about 1:30 to 1:40. |
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Jun 24, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48
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#10 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Quote:
 I bet it takes you twice as long to get past wardens and popup room... no wonder you are bored. |
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Jun 24, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05
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#11 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]
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Quote:
I refuse to take more then one (or occasionally, two) trappers in my team in PVE, anywhere. I believe traps should be used to apply their conditions, not to exploit the mob AI into killing itself with moderate damage stacked a hundred-fold. Its a stupid, lame way to play the game. Hit button 1, button 2, button 3, button 4, button 5. Hit them again when the picture comes back. After a minute, pull things to you. Pick up loot. Rinse, repeat. I two man Tower of Strength for XP not because its the most expediant way to do it, but because its fun, and quite simply my eyes would bleed out if I tried to farm 100k+ xp from trolls in one sitting, even using scrolls. I can, however run Urgoz three times in a row with a good group. I may not PVP all that much, but that doesnt mean Im utterly dead to the concept of innovation. I may not have split second reflexes (why I never play an interupter) but I do like to plan and think things through. Anyways I tested my team build for Urgoz, and it went quite well, granted that many of the people there had never killed Urgoz before. Ill post about it later, but for now I wanted to discuss the usefulness of an Earth Ele tank for the Warden rooms. In the last room, you can simply armor stack (Armor of Earth, Kinetic Armorment, Obsidian Flesh) with an anti KD skill (Ward of Stability) and a spam to fuel OFlesh, under the effects of Quickening Zephyr in order to tank. With a bond on you, you should have no problem tanking the Wardens, but energy might be a proble, so have a teammate bring Balthazar's Spirit. And with them all attacking you, Sliver Armor should have no problem creating quite a good few corpses in a manner of seconds. And what do alot of warden corpses do? Fuel Putrid Explosion. Drop Edge of Extinction right before you do this, and you should be able to plow through Wardens like all the 'super-leet hyper-experienced trappers' do to Thorn Wolves. Speaking of which, the Earth Ele tank has another use - Thorn Wolves. I just took a couple of hits from Thorn Wolves on my ele, whos armor was pumped up to 226. Wild Strike hit me for 77 damage... ie, enough to trigger Spirit Bond. With an Earth Ele tank and a Spirit Bond monk it should be a fairly easy matter to actually TANK the Thorn Wolves rather then noob each group of them with traps. Again, I have nothing against applying a Dust Trap before you lure a group (especially when combo'd with Displacement), thats a sensible use of the skill, but putting down a dozen+ traps is something else entirely. Now, the problem comes in the exhaustion/weakness room. Your main approach to killing the Wardens relies on spell casting, which is heavily penalized. Theres a couple of ways to solve this, you can either use a Sin teleport to go up to the Bark and gank it, or you can have the Earth ele equip a 15/-1 energy set, precast outside the effect while someone else pulls, and move in, casting Kinetic only at the last possible moment, then using only the bare minimum number of skills to keep it up while you generate corpses for Putrid/EoE. You wont be able to survive for long, but should have over a hundred energy and able to afford quite a bit of exhaustion. There, itd be far more important to have your team help you out. Song Wardens use Air of Enchantment and full enchantments, so Soul Barbs might be nice. Anything to help bring down a single target under pressure so you can get the ball rolling, such as Defile Flesh/Deep Wound and to a lesser extent Lingering Curse/Malign Intervention, or even Scourge Healing (though the Ritualists will still pose a problem as they dont 'heal' quite so much). The person pulling them back to you should probably be a Warrior, as they are simply the obviously choice. Bull's Charge would be very nice for him, as their elite defensive skills are not quite as needed down here (you can stance tank thorn wolves with ripostes, sure, but all in all you will be relying on your team to help back you up), and your teammates should always be kiting whenever they have something you need to chase down... thus, a constantly moving target. And it acts as a speed boost, to reset mob AI, if needed. In general, hexes seem to do quite nicely down there, as you run up against nothing which removes them - very nice. Of course, if you wanted to try to make things interesting, you could bring a couple of Beast Masters. Hey, EOE is the easiest way to kill Urgoz, why not have it at 16 BM? Pets actually make rather nice tanks, though against Thorn Wolves I have my doubts. Thats whatd make it fun, though. And of course, if your ever having too hard of a time with something, like say the wardens, you could death nova a pet up, let it die, then putrid it, rez it, and chain it again. Its a mere ~200 armor ignoring aoe damage per cycle per pet repeatable every 10 seconds or so, with 15 seconds of 6 damage per second... Again, if you want to talk about how I need more trappers in the build, dont post. Im not interested, not even vaguely. |
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Jun 24, 2006, 05:23 PM // 17:23
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#12 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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i'm not sold on geotanking and adding damage while tanking... I think decent warrior can offer better survivability and he doesnt have to deal with exhaustion, stripping, interrupts, blah... While his damage is rather irrelevant to what i like doing, which is unleashing 3-4 nukers on poor bastards' heads.
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Jun 24, 2006, 06:45 PM // 18:45
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#13 | |
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Jungle Guide
Join Date: Jul 2005
Guild: ******************* Refuge From Exile [RFE]
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Quote:
I dont think a straight Warrior can tank this as effectively. The Maddened Warriors use Fierce Blow which will hit you for 40+ damage every time (even with infinite armor), and your enchantments will come flying off. With remarkable speed - and pain. The possible counter to this is perma SpellBreaker, which even then I would prefer to have on a W/E using Armor of Earth, Dolyak Signet, Kinetic Armor, and Watch Yourself. Thats just me though - if Im on my Warrior and something hits me for more then -0, I start to think of ways to fix that, to spite them. Sliver Armor will deal silly amounts of damage. It is the clear choice to use on a dedicated tank who has some manner of keeping his enchants on him. Actually, I like the idea of a constant Spellbreaker on the tank better, as the mob AI will stick to him better... hm. Anyways Im severly sleep deprived. |
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Jun 24, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53
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#14 |
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2006
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ok so first you saying geotank is good, and now you saying armor is irrelevant and enchants will be stripped... stick to one point please...
As for the room itself it is one of the easiest if you got 4 nukers that have a clue - pull to the corner of the gate and nuke... easy win. |
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Jun 24, 2006, 07:01 PM // 19:01
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#15 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Fullerton, Ca.
Guild: CDXX/THE420TH.COM
Profession: Mo/Me
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sounds complicated! but OK, whatever floats your boat! We just did in again last night thats 1 more long bow to the guild! Oh we used a quadruple nuker had 3 nukers 8 Ms each, was pretty kewl watching all those ROcks falling from the sky. LOL
Peace |
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Jun 24, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04
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#16 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kanuckistan
Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW]
Profession: R/
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elemental attunement ->mantra of resolve-> archane echo-> meteor shower-> auspicious incantation-> meteor shower-> meteor.....gg song wardens.
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Jun 26, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04
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#17 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Jun 2005
Guild: The Black Hand Gang [BHG]
Profession: Mo/
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4 B/P
3-4 Nukers 1 MM 1 BiP/Orders 2 Monks 0-1 Rit or SS Nec Tombs variation can't fail (and it doesn't). Very quick, no need for stopping for traps. Edit: Should clarify that the build origin is not mine. A guildie suggested it. Works better than anything else we've done. Last edited by TheSonofDarwin; Jun 27, 2006 at 12:32 AM // 00:32.. |
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Jun 26, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21
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#18 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Kanuckistan
Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW]
Profession: R/
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That looks like fun Darwin
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