Curse

heaven · Aug 10, 2006, 04:16 PM // 16:16

When I play my ranger in Fort Aspenwood, I always carry Nature's Renewal and Primal Echoes to deal with bonding monks. Too bad I never encountered any bonder when I play as ranger in Fort Aspenwood. EoE is a must because it is the best weapon to take down Master Architect Gunther even when our Luxons are out-numbered in the last room. It is so funny to see everyone lying face down (including Master Architect Gunther) and the big green "Victory" because of EoE. Everyone have a good laught at that.

Caged Fury · Aug 11, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I was bonding last night and something...erm...different happened that I've never seen happen before. In all games that I've bonded in, I've seen the Luxon team attempt to lead the bondee away from the bonder's healing range and they've never had success with this tactic. The bondee wanders so far, but stays within/close to healing range, and then breaks aggro and quickly returning to their post. They never seem to wander too far from their post. However, last night my bondee (the one guarding inner orange gate) chased a Luxon all the way beyond the outer orange gate. Before I could open the gate and give chase, the Ele went far enough for my bonds to break and Ele was promptly killed by a waiting gang of Luxons.

When the inner gate got repaired, they did it again. One-by-one, the inner gate guards were pulled outside the outer gate and killed. And I lost the gate again.

Like I said, I've never seen the leading of the bondee away tactic work so well before, is it normal for this tactic to work? Or have the Luxons (especially the team I played against) found a new method that works?

AW Lore · Aug 11, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

it may be a small glitch/bug, just as the gatekeepers still wander outside from time to time.

in my experience from pve running, something liket his happens when npcs attack:
ele caster:
wand
wand
spell (in this case, obsidina flame/unsteady ground)
wand
wand

if the enemy runs away from the npc as soon as the second round of wand is done, but before the spell starts to be casted, the npc will follow/chase the target until he is able to pull off the spell, as long as he is unable to cast the spell, he will chase him, once he casts the spell he will return to his place.

this happens kinda the same with the gatekeepers (and the luxon monk at the central amber mine) but instead of offensive casting it happens with healing spells, i have seen the monk inside the kurzick fort several times.

cerb · Aug 12, 2006, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Okay let's clarify the Balthazar's Spirit vs Essence Bond thing for good.

When bonding, you want to take Balthazar's Spirit, HOWEVER, you are not casting it on others, YOU ARE CASTING IT ON YOURSELF.

This way, every time Life Bond is triggered (as you know, it deals damage to you), Balthazar's will give you 1 energy, even if you are taking 0 damage.

On the other hand, Essence Bond is an enchant you will have to cast on a target ally, and you will gain 1 energy every time that target takes damage.

What does that all mean?

Essence Bond on ally will give you +1 energy whenever that ally takes damage.
Balthazar's on yourself will give you +1 energy whenever anyone you previously bonded takes damage.

Now update your build, and put Balt's

AW Lore · Aug 12, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

hey Cerb,
check my two builds in the first page, you will see that i take little to no damage, so casting balthazar on myself is a big waste.

Quote:

When bonding, you want to take Balthazar's Spirit, HOWEVER, you are not casting it on others, YOU ARE CASTING IT ON YOURSELF.

my monk doesnt bond, but he does hold the gate 75% of the times. and is relatively resistant to the nature renewal spirit

once i started receiving whispers from a person that was a friend of one of the luxon players, telling me that i was driving his friends nuts cus the gate i was protecting wasnt falling down.

cerb · Aug 12, 2006, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AW Lore

hey Cerb,
check my two builds in the first page, you will see that i take little to no damage, so casting balthazar on myself is a big waste.

If you are taking little to no damage referring to 0 damage triggered by Life Bond, you still get +1 energy from Balt's.

However, if you are referring to little to no damage referring to allies not taking hits, then bonding might not be too useful ^_^

AW Lore · Aug 12, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

taking little damage as in im not using life bond, and when an elementalist cast his spells i tend to get out of the meteor shower/fire storm/tenais heat/so and so on.

you know, bonders are not the only type of builds that can hold a gate

Riotgear · Aug 18, 2006, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Arcane Echo/diversion causes a massive period where nothing can be cast without a skill sacrifice, and resists sacrificing "less-useful" skills by reapplying it constantly, generally causing monks to either blow out ROF/Prot Spirit in which case it's game over, or stop casting for so long that the gate collapses. It resists Contemplation of Purity because.... Contemplation gets diverted! Then another diversion gets applied!

Arcane Thievery/Larceny is less reliable, especially since it's more random, but serves the same purpose.

My brother also enjoys using Panic and Complicate, which makes reliance on Blessed Signet agonizing.

Speaking of which, you forgot another major counter: Nature's Renewal!

Granted, few of these see much use (Cantha has mesmers!?), but work very well.

AW Lore · Aug 18, 2006, 08:29 PM // 20:29

with the introduction of the availability of these arenas to pvp characters, expect to see more mesmers on the luxon side, kurzicks will have a difficult time adapting to this, but we will adapt.

Riotgear:
i barely saw mesmers on the luxon side, and most of them were degen, but this will prolly change after this weekend.

Paperfly:
i finally changed life sheath off of my build, changed it for blessed light, works wonders, enemy casters (specially mesmers) have a harder time taking me down with it.

the build goes like this:

dwayna kiss
ethereal light
signet of devotion
blessed light
protective spirit
mend ailment
remove hex
essence bond

JoDiamonds · Aug 18, 2006, 08:36 PM // 20:36

Essence Bond vs. Balth's Aura:

People are mostly right in that you normally put Balth's Spirit on yourself. This is especially useful if you ever put Life Bond on multiple allies, and this the normal method of bonding in PvE. You don't want to put Essence Bond on three allies when you could just have Balth's Spirit on yourself.

However, if you are really concentrating solely on a single target to keep alive, Essence Bond is better if and only if you are using Dwayna's Kiss (or something much like it that wants your target to be enchanted). It also acts as another line of defense against enchant strippers, but that's often not relevant.

Most of the time I take Balth's Spirit, because I want to throw up multiple Life Bonds and maintain them all with Blessed Signet. It's worth trying both ways, though.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Aug 19, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

My strategy for playing Defent Fort Aspenwood is to stand in the "room" with Master Architect Gunther and a monk. I play as my Mesmer so I can hex people from behind the wall quite easily and I am rarely noticed, while the monk is protecting the elementalists. If someone does get in I've usually degenned their health enough for the rest of my team to take them out, or for me and monkey to wand them to death! I love mesmers...

Sorry but that's a bad strategy if all youre doing in camping in that room the whole time. Too many people think by camping Gunther that they'll be able to protect him.

You should be out in the "front lines" and only camping Gunther if/when the Luxons get to him. Otherwise, you're not doing anything to help the team. I dont know why so many think this is a good strategy, it just makes the Kurzick side short handed.

Darakus · Aug 22, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Nice posting, it is way past time players on the Kurzick side started thinking on how to counter the Luxon offensive.

While I admit bonders, Ritual Lords and other protector of the guards are a pain to the Luxon offensive having a couple of players to go after the commanders, mines ... is also a valid tactic in terms of countering the ennemy.

Two questions I'd like to ask :

1) Have you tried bounding the inner door while reparing the outer door to box the Luxon attack in, you then just need to keep them boxed up while not attacking them if they didn't plan for the bonding they're in prison for the rest of the game.

2) how do you deal with a spirit of disenchantment (it removes an enchant on each attack) ?

Paperfly · Aug 22, 2006, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

1) Have you tried bounding the inner door while reparing the outer door to box the Luxon attack in, you then just need to keep them boxed up while not attacking them if they didn't plan for the bonding they're in prison for the rest of the game.

I'll admit that when I'm on the Luxon side I find it very annoying that I can't use the gate locks to let my teammates in.

In practice it's not really practical - you're up against human players, and even the dumbest Luxon pack can figure out how to get out of that unless you get extraordinarily lucky.

Repairing the gates and trapping a Turtle behind them is still good strategy, mind, but (a) it's unlikely to become any sort of "lock", and (b) in the final stages of the game it risks letting people chasing amber runners into the Green room.

Quote:

2) how do you deal with a spirit of disenchantment (it removes an enchant on each attack) ?

Ritualists usually don't have the damage output to take advantage of the strip in my experience - and any spirit turrets will have to deal with the elementalist's Unsteady Ground.

If it becomes too much of a problem, there's always that ultimate cover enchantment Reversal of Fortune...

My Sweet Revenga · Aug 22, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Ritualists usually don't have the damage output to take advantage of the strip in my experience - and any spirit turrets will have to deal with the elementalist's Unsteady Ground.

If it becomes too much of a problem, there's always that ultimate cover enchantment Reversal of Fortune...

Well that really depends on your ritualist build. I've found channelling to be relatively weak as a damage dealer. But as a rit lord, you can take on either a purely offensive or defensive role. Should also remember that if a rit lord is taking a defensive support role, they don't need to take down a bonder gate on their own. When I first played lux side with my rit lord, we eventually ran into a bonder and we couldn't take it down. From that point on, I brought disenchantment spirit with me just for the bonded gates. The next time I ran into a bonded gate I just dropped the spirit and withing 10-20 seconds we broke through. And the spirit's use isn't limited to just bonded gates as it will contribute to damage, strip enchantments, and add to the confusion our already huge luxon invasion force.

I have yet to see an offensive rit lord take down a bonded gate alone. Certainly with painful bond, the damage output of a rit lord is pretty huge. The problem being that it takes a huge amount of time and concentration to get it right. As already stated, unsteady ground (or any aoe dot for that matter) is a big problem for rits who like to pack their spirits relatively close together.

Amity and Truth · Aug 23, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I've now tried it from the point of view of a monk. And yes, bonding works really good and most enchantment removers only bring one or two spells thinking that will be enough. It's not.

But i'm having a major problem with one thing. My teammates. Oh boy, i sometimes feel like killing them myself if i only could. I'm bonding a gate, the gate hasn't been breached for a full 5 minutes even the luxons kept on trying and trying and then?
Yep... warrior from my Team running towards me, past me, opening the gate and leaving it open while he goes out and "ugh, me smash heads, ugh". Yep. Luxons swarmed in. Luxons swarmed me. Bam, gate lost. And that stupid warrior kept on doing this nonsense until even the last gate was down. This now happens in almost every game i play, some random %"§$"§% goes and opens the gate for them -.-

Caged Fury · Aug 23, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Teammates opening a bonded gate and letting the enemy in is sooooo annoying. When I go bonding, I always tell the team at the start which gate I will be bonding and stress to them that they should not open the gate if there are enemies outside it. This seems to help reduce the problem, but only for teams that are clued up on what the bonder is actually doing. There are still times when someone does it but I get to yell at them.

[ADDED]
And I agree, it would be great if we could kill our own teammates.

Another thing I find myself doing more often is stand by the gate lock, if it is safe to do so, then I get to open and close the thing. It helps amber runners too, when I see them running towards the gate, I open it and let them run through and close it behind them.

Amadei · Aug 24, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amity and Truth

But i'm having a major problem with one thing. My teammates. Oh boy, i sometimes feel like killing them myself if i only could. I'm bonding a gate, the gate hasn't been breached for a full 5 minutes even the luxons kept on trying and trying and then?
Yep... warrior from my Team running towards me, past me, opening the gate and leaving it open while he goes out and "ugh, me smash heads, ugh". Yep. Luxons swarmed in. Luxons swarmed me. Bam, gate lost. And that stupid warrior kept on doing this nonsense until even the last gate was down. This now happens in almost every game i play, some random %"§$"§% goes and opens the gate for them -.-

Are you sure that guy wasn't sabotaging things? I agree he could be just some moron, but... Anyway, I've had that happen to me. Me, bonding green gate. Me TELLING PEOPLE that I'm bonding the green gate. Them, opening the gate, three times in a row

. An interrupt ranger even managed to sneak in before I could close the gate again, but thankfully, he sucked and I just waited for Savage and Distracting to hit me before recasting Blessed Signet.

But damn, I was pretty pissed :P. We did end up winning that match, thankfully.

And killing one's teammates? Sign me up for that one, because Lord have I been tempted!

Paperfly · Aug 24, 2006, 10:02 AM // 10:02

I had a dedicated saboteur about a week after Factions came out, when the metagame hadn't solidified yet and some people still believed a single bonder was automatically game over.

...He patiently explained to me that I was being unfair and ruining everyone's fun by abusing a broken mechanic. He then made a point of politely opening doors to any Luxon who came knocking! I ragequit in disgust the third game in a row I logged onto only to find him waiting there placidly in his solid armour of self-righteousness.

Amadei · Aug 30, 2006, 07:32 AM // 07:32

This is not a rant, but something I would like to point out to my fellow Kurzick players: your monk is not a one-man army. There's only so much I can do, and there's also so much I can do against a dedicated Well of the Profane/Gaze of Contempt necro. I've been blamed a few times for a loss, and that kind of irks me. Even if I couldn't keep the gate up indefinitely, I at the very least slowed them down by a lot.

The rest of the team also needs to do something and by "something" I don't actually mean "battle that stance tank" (hey, genius, he's stalling you) or "take that command point" (especially not when Gunther is under attack -.-). I honestly love bonding the gates at Aspenwood, but, other Kurzicks, you have a job to do as well.

Servant of Kali · Aug 30, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paperfly

Ritualists usually don't have the damage output to take advantage of the strip in my experience - and any spirit turrets will have to deal with the elementalist's Unsteady Ground.

You're kidding me.. have you ever played a Ritualist?

First of all, Unsteady ground is good if Rt is complete newbie. And i mean, complete. Before engaging the gate, you spam few spirits outside of ele ranger. Then you step in the range, wand the ele, spirits start hitting him. Ele casts unsteady on YOU. So you step on the right, cast another spirit. And yet more spirits away. That deals with Unsteady.

And as for dmg output.. that part is just hilarious! Not enough dmg outpost?! :P

Spirit Rt is a build which can give constant DPS on the target. That DPS is higher than ANY OTHER CLASS combo available in Guild Wars at this moment, known to me. With additional effects. Killing Shiro for instance, and getting masters in that last mission is a joke with this Rt build. If you dont believe me, you can try it yourself in FA. Join Luxon side, spam spirits, cast Painful Bond. Move to Inner Gate. Rinse repeat.

I for one played Rt a lot on both sides in FA for months. I can tell you that i dont remember a bonder who was able to deal with my Disenchantment spirit. Yet. Let's say there was one perhaps for statistic purposes, but off the top of my head i dont remember any.

Quote:

If it becomes too much of a problem, there's always that ultimate cover enchantment Reversal of Fortune...

..which will most likely get triggered when one of 5 other spirits hits the target, or the wand.

If you're the only one hitting the target, that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by My Sweet Revenga

I have yet to see an offensive rit lord take down a bonded gate alone.

*raises hand*

Pain, Bloodsong, Shadowsong, Wanderlust, Disenchantment, Dissonance, Painful Bond. This leaves you 1 more spot which you can use for Earthbind, or Rend Enchantments (as you can see, your secondary is free).. or some fun spirit like Predatory Season. Or Gaze from Beyond. With Earthbind, that bonded ele wont even cast Unsteady Ground anyway, and with Dissonance the same. Now, i dont use RLord as you see because i dont need one. Wanderlust is far better. It adds to the dmg of Painful bond, knowdown isnt even important.

Again, a good _dmg_ spirit Rt will not use Ritual Lord (at least not in 4v4 or FA). You get no benefit from it. If you take RLord you badly need Boon of Creation. Now, you already use 2 skill slots which i use better

=======

..that being said, just a few words on the topic. I have written a Kurzick guide for FA quite a while ago, on another forum (dont think i copy pasted it to this). It helped the newbies somewhat, but the overall quality of Kurzick FA is... horrible.

I even tried bonding, but all in vain. People opening the gate in front of me (not sabotaging, they just... dont understand why it's bad).. then 7 of em not being able to hold one gate, or no one running amber because "it's beneath them". They'd rather pvp. People standing inside the fort "waiting for enemy to get in to pvp em" (hellooo!!). Leechers. Mending users (yes, still..). These are all the reasons why i dont play Kurzick FA. I have tried on many occassions... but no. It's horrible. Im not saying Luxon side is better. Im always horrored by the fact that Luxon players cant dedicate a single skill slot to Rend Enchantments or something similiar. It doesnt fit their build they say, and i wonder how come not, since it's #1 important skill on Luxon side. However, at least if i have enchant removal, we win 90% of games so easily it's a joke. Few games are tedious and sure we might lose here and there, but it happens rarely. Most Luxon games i play while reading forum in the background and i still win. Kurzick games im focused 100%, do my best, but im still beaten quite a lot of time. The map is not balanced regardless of what some people say. Keep in mind i have played it for _months_ and im a pvper in nature, not a pve newbie.

Add to that a low rewards for playing in FA, especially on Kurzick side, and i have no reason to play FA anymore. It's not fun for me.