Curse

freekedoutfish · Nov 18, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

I like everything about that mission, except for Shiros part in it.

He just seems completely out of place in that mission.

I like that hes there along with the Lich.

But hes not designed for open space battle.

Hes designed for close combat in a confines space, as in Factions.

Ive just tried that mission and we basically got slaughted by Shiro, despite having the rest of the mission done.

It wasnt because we werent doing dmg. We had him down to 1/4 of his health.

But thats another thing. He regens very easily, and fast. Once he reaches 1/4down his health, he seems to stop taking dmg.

But anyway;

You cant fight him effectively in a very open space, because he DOESNT stand still for more then 2 seconds.

Our team ended up nothing more then a bunch of scare little rabbits, running away from him around the entire battle area until we finally all decided to die 15 minutes later.

He moves too fast, and teleports and his health stops decreasing at a set point.

I just think he (at his current fighting style) isnt meant for a large fighting area.

Yes the degen effects work and do knock his health, but as mentioned, once he reaches 1/4 down, he just seems to stop loosing health.

I think a tweak of somekind if needed.

[edit]

Im not saying the mission is hard; Just that its frustrating and annoys you and takes the fun out of the game.

Shiro needs tweaked. Make his health drop at the same rate.

Either have it drop fast like it does at the start, or have it drop slow like it does at the end.

And make his movements a bit less eratic.

[edit]

completed it on the second time of getting to shiro :P

No shrines uses. Purely hacking at Shiro while I cast " ward against..." around him.

So I was wrong.

Rera · Nov 18, 2006, 09:16 PM // 21:16

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...0070424&page=9

fatmouse · Nov 18, 2006, 09:49 PM // 21:49

If your warriors don't run around like headless chickens as soon as they get hit, he wont run around either. The AI of all enemies only changes targets when their current target starts running.

Some Guru Named Kai · Nov 18, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Just because your party was wiped out doesn't make it flawed. Refer to the many, many, many other players that have beat the mission. This is just another "Oh noes, Shiro completely pizowned us, nerf it! nerf it!" If that was the case, why not make everything Ascalon-like so everyone can finish the game in 1 hour.

Next time, look around, you're not the only one whining. Yes, OP's post is a whine against how a 2nd to the last mission boss is hard. It's near the end! Of course it's going to be a challenge. You want a push-over mission, go play the first Istani mission over and over and over, then celebrate your victory over that.

Apologize if this became a bit of a rant, but I'm tired to seeing the forum flooded with "Mercy on me, I can't beat it" threads. People need to realize you can't just whack and smash everything, instead, tactics (as in builds and team cooperation) needs to be taken into consideration.

TechnoSword · Nov 18, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Although I died at least 3 times in the process I beat him with hero/hench way. The only reason he moves around so much is because for one, riposting shadows, shadowsteps him to the most recent person that attacks him, AI auto makes him run away every once in a while, and of course he naturally targets monks first. All you have to do is use your characters ( mine was melee ) to body block him from charging the monks which i had flagged behind me far away but enough to cast spells. and basically i was the only damage dealer besides my necro using spoil victor / parasite thing, and when he casts IO your guys are all out of the way except for you, tell your monks to cast prot spells all over you and you should be fine. Not that complicated as people make it out to be, they just send in their damamge dealers to charge him and he IO kills them all because they dont have strategies besides stabbity stab stab stab slash.

Esprit · Nov 18, 2006, 10:11 PM // 22:11

If you can keep conditions on him long enough a Dervish can stand up to Impossible Odds with Avatar of Balthazar + Conviction + Armor of Sanctity. Of course that was for about 2 seconds before he was nice to give the conditions back.

And yes, at about 1/4 health he becomes much harder to kill. My group ended spending more time taking away that 1/4 health than capping the shrines and taking away the first 3/4 of his health.

Antheus · Nov 18, 2006, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Getting him to 20-40% is easy. People die at last part.

Open space? True. This is why it's recommended to capture the shrines. Not only do you get masters, you also get many buffs, and you fight him in a smaller space.

Too fast? Shire can remove hexes, but not fast enough. Mesmer with slowdown skills is useful. Cripple doesn't work, since he spreads it and cripples your group. Actually, anti-melee mesmer is great for this mission.

Bring fast casting single target nuking skills. Meteor storm won't do much. And casters will rarely have 3-5 seconds time to stand still with Shiro around.

Party member rule #1: If shiro attacks you, run like a headless chicken. Tanks tank. Nobody else. Even tanks will die fast against IO unless proted properly.

Rez early, rez fast (good general rule in any case). If Shiro kills someone, hit the rez signet immediately. Anyone, except monks of course.

Spread out. Never stay in a group. It takes the bite out of IO.

Use helpful anti-melee hexes: SV, empathy, blackout, diversion, SS, ...
Bring anti-melee enchants and skills: ward against melee, guardian, aegis, prot spirit, shield of absorbtion, ...

Heros/Henchies are generally horrible for the mission, since they don't understand the above, and you'll need to control each and every one of them. Unless you can do that, you'll have problems.

Real people will make this mission much easier, if for only one reason. They can kite much better than AI ever will, and they can still be effective. Of course, some players don't kite.

justadude · Nov 18, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Guru Named Kai

JRefer to the many, many, many other players that have beat the mission.

Please refer to the many, many, many player who still have not gotten in a good group to beat it yet and to the many, many, many players spending up to 10 days on this mission. Also refer to the many, many, many players who have beat the mission only to feel, not accomplishment, but annoyance at the poor mission design.

I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...

Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.

And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you...

broodijzer · Nov 18, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

Shiro is easy if you adapt and change tactics. It sounds like you guys use the same tactics over and over again (degen in OP's post for example).
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh?

EPO Bot · Nov 18, 2006, 10:34 PM // 22:34

It's just the same Shiro as in Factions.Minus the banishing.

Bankai · Nov 18, 2006, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Yeah, too be honest, I think the mission is pretty hard. First I tried it with 2 pugs, miserably failed. Then I tried with heroes and henchies. I never made it to Shiro. Finally I got to Shiro and we beat him after a long and hard battle.

Tips:
A) Do bonus
B) Bring prot spirit
C) It's best to take fast and powerful heals, like Glimmer of light or Word of Healing
D) Bring a paragon with hard res

EPO Bot · Nov 18, 2006, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Wouldn't Norgu with nothing but interrupts be of any use? Add Jin or Margrid with interrupts too...

justadude · Nov 18, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by broodijzer

Shiro is easy if you adapt and change tactics. It sounds like you guys use the same tactics over and over again (degen in OP's post for example).
Read through some skill lists, and maybe you will find some skills that can be very useful against him. I don't think that the person who found out Spoil Victor works wonders ran a SF build all nightfall, eh?

When I beat Shiro we had a Poison Arrow Ranger, a MM with no minions at the time and a Jagged Strike Assassin. No SV or Mesmer. I had gone often with Sv and all kinds of monks before, trying every strategy posted in the forums. Now I am going to say it was the Assassin with Jagged Strike who somehow kept IO from crushing us, because I have no idea what Jagged Strike does.

I agree, Shiro is easy. He is one mob to attack, with no patrols to avoid while fighting other groups or rushing in to quickly kill portal wraiths before patrols come back. Impossible Odds and his regen is not easy. Those are artificially inflated to make him hard to beat, unlike those of the Lich...

0mar · Nov 18, 2006, 11:04 PM // 23:04

The last mission is only the mission where you have to meta-game it, meaning you have to know what's coming up before playing the mission. Other than that, it's not overly difficult.

freekedoutfish · Nov 18, 2006, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

Please refer to the many, many, many player who still have not gotten in a good group to beat it yet and to the many, many, many players spending up to 10 days on this mission. Also refer to the many, many, many players who have beat the mission only to feel, not accomplishment, but annoyance at the poor mission design.

I would also like to refer to the fact that sometimes things are not challenging, but annoying. I really know how to run a group through the mission up until Shiro +10 moral boost every time. It became second nature shutting down the portals due to the many times Shiro wiped the more often than not good parties I was in. Putting such a buffed Shiro (what was with the Lich anyway?) at the end made the entire thing annoying because of the time invested to face such, well, impossible odds...

Now, running over a bridge to face impossible odds is alright, but it is not alright after 30 minutes of mission. That is flawed design.

And in closing I would like to refer to the fact that Abaddon is a mere after thought. Shiro is the boss of Nightfall or did Abaddon cause you more trouble? ...now I am referring to you...

I think you pretty much said everything I was thinking and what I was going to say in reply to the same post.

Ive never said the mission was hard, or if I did, I didnt mean to.

And yes we had all the shrines taken and we were buffed up with all the plus this and that.

We tried body blocking with the warriors, but as mentioned, he teleports away.

I just think Shiro is illl-designed for that mission in such a way that hes too frustrating to kill because of it.

And I find it just illogical as to why his health stops dropping at the same rate, when he reaches about 1/4 down. Why? whats different with him from when hes completely healthy?

He even seems to fight differently then how he did in factions.

His movement is alot more random and eratic. In factions he tended to focus in one place and occassionally teleport.

Now hes like a jumping jack rabbit, bopping all over the place.

All I suggets is they sort this issue with his health not dropping at all after its left with just 1/4 the way down. And make his movements a bit less eratic.

The mission is just frustrating not hard.

vojnik · Nov 18, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Same fighting as in factions, just has 2 less skills.

You really have to complain about everything dont ya?

Antheus · Nov 18, 2006, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

And I find it just illogical as to why his health stops dropping at the same rate, when he reaches about 1/4 down. Why? whats different with him from when hes completely healthy?

Battle scars. See Wild (Blow, Throw, ...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

He even seems to fight differently then how he did in factions.

His movement is alot more random and eratic. In factions he tended to focus in one place and occassionally teleport.

AI change, and different skills, different map.

Theus · Nov 19, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

They should give Shiro his Meditation of the Reaper.Except,make the damage output Higher.And give him his Echoing Banishment skill,so he could teleport classes out of range of parties.Like monks.That would be awesome.

jaymat · Nov 19, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

sure this mission is ahrd, but thats what i luv about it. took me 2 attempts with heros/hench to beat this mission. 1st time was to find that shiro was there and after knowing hes there and having faced him in factions i knew exactly what to take. i just put wild blow onto my warriors bar and spoil victor on my MM's bar and made sure he used it. make sure you dont attack both shiro and the lich together cos u will find it will b much harder, flag ur hench away and use ur bow to lure 1 of em away from the other then kill.

use a bit of common sense and the correct skills and shiro is easy.

icedragon981 · Nov 19, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

This mission was hard for me at first too but I finally was able to Hero/Hench it easily after I got mine and my Hero's build's worked out.
Me - Command Paragon with "Incoming!"
Koss - Glads Defense with Wild Blow (made sure he spammed it every time it recharged, this completly shuts down his self healing)
Master of Whispers - Spoil Victor and multiple life stealing and degen hexes.
Dunkoro - Prot (a prot monk makes this mission SO much easier)

Forgot the exact henchies I used though. >.> <.<

After getting to the temple I didn't even worry about the bonus, I flagged all my heros/hench except for Koss pretty far away so they wouldn't take aggro and Koss could take most of Shiro's initial attacks and pulled both the Lich and Shiro. Shiro is not a danger at first if you don't attack him so after pull both of the lvl 31s, I made all the heros and hench focus solely on the Lich who went down easy. After this I had Koss spam wild blow on Shiro, Master keep SV on him and Dunkoro keep Shiros target protted until he started using Ripositing Shadows and started attacking my casters. I threw up "Incoming!" and some other supportive chants/shouts and widdled Shiro down to about 1/4th Health, here was the fun part. Koss got him out of Battle Scars with wild blow so he couldn't heal and Master of Whispers took out a lot of Shiro's health with SV as he was using IO which didn't affect the party much since I had everyone taking Half damage with "Incoming!" and Dunkoro had most everyone well protted but here was the odd part. Shiro shadow steped himself in between Koss and a wall and became stuck there, constantly attacking the fully protted and healed warrior, constantly damaging himself due to SV along with all the other damage being thrown at him by us. Eventually he killed himself with SV trying to kill Koss and get free but to no avail.
My point(s): Wild blow, Spoil Victor and many good prot skills turn Shiro into a harmless rabbit. (Not like the one from Monty Python and the Holy Grail)