Curse

NinjaKai · Dec 03, 2006, 10:51 PM // 22:51

The elite Power Block is one of my staple skills. Nothing better then shutting down practically every skill in a mobs skill bar.

Wildi · Dec 04, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

I have a little question about the 'mesmers suck in PvE, but not in PvP' part.

Can someone explain why mesmers do great in 8 vs 8 human, but not in 8 vs 8 computer controled enemies?
Or is it just because the average PuG (and average GW PvE player) just don't know anything else except AoE damage?

DoA or not, usually you fight hight lvl mobs (lvl 24 - 28) not low lvl 20 like in pvp games. Those mobs have more health, more energy and deal more damage. That means health/energy drain does not work well because mobs have a high energy pool, did you interrupt one mob three times he will continue and cast a fourth spell to damage you. Single target spells for the loss, you can slow a target down, decrase his casting speed, drain him.. whatever you do, you may have the ability to take single targets down but you are non efficient to fight multiple mobs at once and this is the reason why certain groups don't want mesmers in their pve team. I don't have to talk about damage, you put spirit of failure on one single enemy but a necro is able to put reckless haste on multiple targes at once, simply because he has a spell like that.

Quote:

Mesmers are made to hinder enemies performance and efficiency.

see above

Thallandor · Dec 04, 2006, 01:23 AM // 01:23

As Lesley Gore would say it:

Quote:

It's my party, and I'll cry if I want to
Cry if I want to, cry if I want to
You would cry too if it happened to you

I have a mesmer too. Get over it.

Nine Soul · Dec 04, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Screw not taking a mesmer. I just ran the City in DoA as a RANGER, and took Backfire for the hell of it. Domination specced at 10.

And guess what? All those times that two nukers didn't cut it with a Ki that just wouldn't drop because he kept healing? Backfire FTW! I Backfire him, they nuke him, he tries Whisper of Healing and *smack* -105 hp. GG Ki Margonite.

I just rolled a Mesmer. Probably gonna delete her, but ONLY because my ranger can run the few skills I need well enough. They take longer to cast than a mesmer would be able to, but hey - they cast.

lg5000 · Dec 04, 2006, 01:53 AM // 01:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

...and you made it through all of Nightfall and did not realize that people hate Mesmers?

From personal experience.. i have heros and henchies, they did the job on all but one mission for me. So being in a position where you're going 'mesmer lfg' is not something I'm necessarily used to and it just drove home why my heros are going to be decked out with the appropriate runes/weapons. I can't be stuffed trying to get into a group next chapter if I have heros/henchies available.

Of course, that doesn't work with the elite areas, and... I will end up looking for a group, next time I feel like wasting an hour trying to convince people that mesmers aren't bad. (and when I feel like playing domination again)

**cosyfiep** · Dec 04, 2006, 03:15 AM // 03:15

yep, my mesmer/ranger is the first character to take on nf.....and I have only done 2 missions with pugs so far (have the last 3 missions to do yet). I do lots of interupting.......and use my heros ....they have good weapons and skill sets now---and are getting runes as they drop. Henchies fill in the gaps where my heros fall short.

Lumenil · Dec 04, 2006, 03:45 AM // 03:45

The only reason mesmer arent widely accepted, is that they are never included in cookie cutter builds. Se here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10084543

Nobody is even proposing to add a primary mesmer to the team.

So please, could some of the uber-pro pve players who love mesmers (I love them, but I not much into pve), create and post a complete effective cookie cutter build for DOA, that includes one mesmer or two?

Eclair · Dec 04, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Mesmers with Spiritual Pain and mistrust are great for DoA. Echo those skills and throw in some additional caster hate and you'll be good.

The group I beat City with used the build posted later in the thread, but instead off 3 SF elementalists we had 2 SF/Meteor Shower elementalists with a SP/Mistrust Mesmer. Great against the two Ki groups.

ShaneOfMach · Dec 04, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I believe mesmers are wonderful due to their ability to completely shutdown a caster.

For DoA, maybe you should focus on decimating the eles, seeing as they are the ones who dish out the highest DPS

pve-er · Dec 04, 2006, 04:27 AM // 04:27

you don't know what is hate until you be an Assassin. personally, I hate mesmer as enemy but never hate them as a team member. in fact a nooby tank is more painful then a noob mesmer. then sponge out all the healing and keep dying, the worse thing is monk still heal them.
please don't think you are unwanted, because there are other profession on the button of the chain

HolyHawk · Dec 04, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Of course mesmers know what they are able to, especially in DoA. But I only managed to get in a group taking greater conflagration/winter in my bar, and in another taking divert hexes. Funny thing is, the super almight tank and bonders would just die anyway, despite all protection and babysitting I did to them. It's been like that in many missions.

However, one group advertised for a mesmer, and when I asked what they wanted, they told me that I was free for it. How often do you hear that! Conclusion, we finished city without gc/winter, without bonder, just 3 hybrid monks with prot spirit, and a very smart tank, clever with agroes, and pacient people knowing their places, what and when to do things.

Avarre is right, this trinity is just stupid, if it was this usefull, they would cross the first mob groups at least. God, dervishes can tank quite well, and so can assassins in nightfall. Don't understimate these classes.

Cathode_Reborn · Dec 04, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Not sure how to respond to all this o_O

I myself get abit cautious when letting a mes in the group. I've always viewed them as a pvp class. I don't do any hardcore pvp but I at least know the basics. In pve, it's alot easier to play an SS nec (which is a tad similar to mesmers with the hexes and armor-ignoring dmg, etc) than a....domination mes? That's another prob....they don't even got a pve build name >_O There's barragers, MMs, tanks, rt lords, nukers, and in DoA's case, SF nukers, the spirit rangers, etc, but with a mesmer it's just "mesmer lfg". Or "degen mes lfg". If a party member is only doing degen, that won't be very helpful.

I'm not saying mesmers are useless in pve, but in the few times I party with one, I usually have almost no idea what they're gonna be doing since they just type out "domination mes" or "mesmer lfg" and the party leader accepts them anyways since they sometimes accept absolutely anyone who requests to join (which is very common). If they are just saying mesmer lfg, then I usually get the feeling they tossed a bunch of random skills into somethin that just won't work. If the mesmer just joined for the purpose of interrupting, a ranger would probably outdo them on that since their interrupts are much cheaper and got constant dmg-output from barrage or whatever elite they're using. E-surge seems to be used abit for pve mesmers but it just isnt enough, 80 armor-ignoring damage, but a 20sec recharge. The energy-loss isn't really a bonus either since it's usually absolutely pointless to do e-denial in pve.

If you did know beforehand that mesmers are much more wanted in pvp rather than pve, you'd know you were taking a "big" risk. Some mesmers might be sitting in an outpost for a long time since most pve'ers haven't really seen a mesmers skills, besides the popular ones like Empathy and Backfire.

Is there a link to a useful pve mes build (I don't visit these forums often)? If so please post it, otherwise I'd recommend comin up with one, and posting it so that way more people can see what mesmers are capable of. I myself don't get excited about havin one in the pve party and I never made a pve mes to experiment so......enlighten me too

Zinger314 · Dec 04, 2006, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Red Locust · Dec 04, 2006, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

...and you made it through all of Nightfall and did not realize that people hate Mesmers?

Mesmers don't have it the worst. They can have some fun with Cry of Frustration, atleast.

You should be pitying the Assassins and Dervish...

um, I rarely get into pve and even I could immediately pick up the fact that dervishes pump out crazy amounts of damage in pve. Why would they be excluded?

Riotgear · Dec 04, 2006, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Good luck finding 5 mesmers in the same outpost. Hell, good luck finding two!

They definitely have their uses, but for the most part, there simply aren't enough mesmer abilities that just kill crap. That's kind of excusable because that's not exactly the class's specialty, hell, people are complaining about it with spiritual pain. The fact that most mobs don't care if you interrupt them, strip their enchantments, energy-drain them, or whatever else generally means the only way to stop a mob from doing something is to just take them out. The fact that healer mobs are generally terrible makes this all the easier.

Most situations, I can't really think of anything a mesmer primary would offer over something as obvious as a N/Me SS necro with Backfire, who also gets tons of free energy from soul reaping.

Y.T. · Dec 04, 2006, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wildi

.. against ONE single target only.. great for pvp, crap in pve ! What about the other 10 mobs ? You did not înterrupt/damage them yet. Let's have a look at AOEs, rangers have barrage, necros ss or minions, eles searing flames, even warriors have effective AOEs, mesmers don't. Fevered dreams, cry of Frustration is useless in comparison with ss or searing flames. Don't get me wrong, interrupting is nice but while a necro is devastating with ss, a mesmer is a joke with his/her single target spells in pve.

both ss and minions break aggro in end-game and elite mis, and good nec dosnt always mm or ss, there r alot of nice builds...
but mes can do more than interrupts. bad mes suck, but then again, its not mes, its the player who started mes char suck... and it'll be the same for any prof...

my mes finished NF long time ago, i love playing with my guildies tho and in guild groups it dosnt matter what char i bring, evrbdy gets accepted and we kill evrthing fast... with or w/o mes, with 3 or 1 monks

but its not so easy to get into pug with my mes compare to my monk - its unfair of cos but oh well, life IS unfair

Ensign · Dec 04, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Energy Surge and Spiritual Pain are perhaps the two most overrated skills in the game.

When you ignore conditionals, AoEs, casting times, and energy costs, yeah, sure, they're overrated.

Peace,
-CxE

Sophitia Leafblade · Dec 04, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain

Personally, I started my mesmer as my 4th character in Prophesies. I adepted the mesmer style known as 'Evolution', based on some old post about synergy between the mesmer skills. Its effectivity came into notice at my first tour at the Ring of Fire. A team felt sorry for the little mesmer standing around and crying, so they took her in. The team cried in despair when the first boss appeared to be the Monk and the Warrior one. 5 seconds after initiating the fight, the Monk boss was dead. The team went: WTF! that boss very hard to take down. And the little mesmer whistles innocently...

Wooh, i cant be certain but that sounds like that mesmer was mine cause i remember doing that to get a party there and then owning the bosses. My mesmers a delicate sort she likes to cry alot for attention.

I would take a mesmer in my party anytime, id rather have a mesmer in my team than an warrior or even an Ele. Mesmers are so unrated and yet so powerful. Go go power mesmers.

aron searle · Dec 04, 2006, 10:19 AM // 10:19

/devils advocate

Why would i want a human mesmer now, when heros can interupt so much better?

isamu kurosawa · Dec 04, 2006, 10:24 AM // 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Not sure how to respond to all this o_O

I myself get abit cautious when letting a mes in the group. I've always viewed them as a pvp class. I don't do any hardcore pvp but I at least know the basics. In pve, it's alot easier to play an SS nec (which is a tad similar to mesmers with the hexes and armor-ignoring dmg, etc) than a....domination mes? That's another prob....they don't even got a pve build name >_O There's barragers, MMs, tanks, rt lords, nukers, and in DoA's case, SF nukers, the spirit rangers, etc, but with a mesmer it's just "mesmer lfg". Or "degen mes lfg". If a party member is only doing degen, that won't be very helpful.

I'm not saying mesmers are useless in pve, but in the few times I party with one, I usually have almost no idea what they're gonna be doing since they just type out "domination mes" or "mesmer lfg" and the party leader accepts them anyways since they sometimes accept absolutely anyone who requests to join (which is very common). If they are just saying mesmer lfg, then I usually get the feeling they tossed a bunch of random skills into somethin that just won't work. If the mesmer just joined for the purpose of interrupting, a ranger would probably outdo them on that since their interrupts are much cheaper and got constant dmg-output from barrage or whatever elite they're using. E-surge seems to be used abit for pve mesmers but it just isnt enough, 80 armor-ignoring damage, but a 20sec recharge. The energy-loss isn't really a bonus either since it's usually absolutely pointless to do e-denial in pve.

If you did know beforehand that mesmers are much more wanted in pvp rather than pve, you'd know you were taking a "big" risk. Some mesmers might be sitting in an outpost for a long time since most pve'ers haven't really seen a mesmers skills, besides the popular ones like Empathy and Backfire.

Is there a link to a useful pve mes build (I don't visit these forums often)? If so please post it, otherwise I'd recommend comin up with one, and posting it so that way more people can see what mesmers are capable of. I myself don't get excited about havin one in the pve party and I never made a pve mes to experiment so......enlighten me too

well thats a good thing, as mesmer i run a different build for every area/situation, based on team set-up etc. making set builds would reduce the effectiveness of the mesmer.