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Dec 02, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27
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#1 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida
Guild: One Corgi Army {OCA}
Profession: R/Rt
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Winter + Greater Conflag + Mantra of Frost - A Balanced Build for DoA.... Please Read
12/04/06: Updated the ranger build, I've found SV/AV + Symbiosis is very good with a Dervish or with any classes using enchantments. I also added a spirit spammer Ritualist in place of the bonds. They're really, really useful. We had one monk and a Ritualist and we beat the City.
I've been trying to do this build with both guildies and pugs to mixed success in DoA. We first tried doing this with trappers and 2 SF nukers but it seemed to go by to slow. So the current build is a balanced one. Anyways, the whole idea of this is to use the combination of Winter + Greater Conflagration (an old idea by the way) to make all the damage into cold damage. Then, have everyone use Mantra of Frost to decrease damage across the board for 30-42% with some minor energy bonuses across the board. Please feel free to critique this, my main problem with the balanced build in PuGs is getting a tank who can manage to avoid dragging aggro onto the rest of the group which makes it 100x easier. This is broken up into three parts: 1: General Overview 2: Skills/Atttributes 3: Strategy General Party Make-up:
Optional Variants:
Also, I'm well aware they remove enchantments so it's certain zones are better without using bonds maybe. It's up to you I suppose. Also, Lightbringers Gaze IS useful when they're all bunched up. Finally, since this build is still very early I'm not sure what type of runes you'd want to use quite yet but it's up to you. I'm providing you with the base numbers and it's up to you to decide how to modify it. Specific Skills: W/Me [Stance Tank] Inspiration: 9 Axe Mastery / Sword Mastery: 11 + 3 (1) + 1 = 15 (13) Tactics: 8 + 1 = 9 Strength: 8 + 1 = 9 Skills:
Edit: I've edited this tank - I believe it's best to just use this character as a pure tank to increase the survival rate. This means you'll have to depend on your other characters to DPS the enemies to death. Edit #2: I actually beat the City using a Dervish tank. It's entirely possible for a Dervish to tank this given the right skills. OR, you can bring a Ranger and have him tank the mobs for you. With Winter and Greater Conflagaration out, the ranger has an AL of 100 against all attacks while the Warrior only has 80 or 100 depending. If you wish, you can bring a Ranger using a Scythe with Apply Poison, Barbed Trap, Viper's Nest, Trapper's Focus etc. to tank for you... [[NOT TESTED]] R/Me: [Winter/Greater Conflag + Interrupts] Illusion: 9 Inspiration: 8 Beast Mastery: 8 + 1 = 9 Expertise: 5 + 3 + 1 = 9 [[Expertise isn't that useful since spirits are cheap]] Wilderness Survival: 10 + 1 = 11 Marksmanship: 0 Skills:
I've beaten the city myself using this build. We used a Dervish and he could boost his HP to around 1k and take a nice beating with a spirit spammer Ritualist. Your job is mainly to keep Winter, Greater Conflagaration, and Symbiosis up wherever you are and to SV/AV the tank after you or the tank pulls a group of enemies. If you have bonds, Symbiosis is even more useful. You need to make sure to bring both a bow and a staff and use it to switch to stop E-surge from mesmers if you're going to be pulling. Just make sure your spirits don't die when you're out there grabbing a group of enemies. 1 Rt/Me [Spirit Spammer] Communing 12 + 3 + 1 = 16 (I'm assuming ours was max, but it's variable) Spawning Power 10 + 1 = 11 Inspiration: 8 Skills:
I think most people underestimate how useful Ritualists are, especially in DoA where they rip off Protective Spirit and bonds with ease. With a good spirit spammer, he should be able to keep the spirits up for long enough for your group to kill the enemies barring any possible errors on pathing and such. 2 Mo/Me (one slot should be Mantra of Frost if possible!) [Healing Prayers] [ZB Protect] The monk builds are pretty well-known and most monks should have a general clue as how to run these so I'm going to save my hands and just talk about them in general. Zealous Benediction is a great elite - make sure you bring that instead of Life Sheath or Shield of Regeneration and such. N/Me [Spiteful Spirit] Curses 12 + 3 + 1: (with runes) Soul Reaping: 9 + 1 Domination: 5 Inspiration: 8 Skills:
I could have skipped over this one as well but I've listed it for completeness. Mantra of Frost is somewhat optional but it really helps take out the damage the enemies do when Enraged goes off. 2 E/Me [Searing Flames] Fire Magic: 12 + 3 + 1 (runes again) Energy Storage: 10 + 1 Inspiration: 8 Skills:
Strategy This is only a general strategy on how this should operate since I've only been in like 7-8 mobs deep into the City before we started dying when we're doing this without Bonds and as a trapper group. The general idea of this is to have the ranger maintain Winter and Greater Conflagaration at all times when you're fighting enemies and keeping the spirits out of harms way so that all damage (physical and elemental) is cold. This idea is NOT new but I've found it helps to cut down a lot on the damage when you're pulling and with a bonder and a good tank you can eliminate it easily. Mantra of Frost gives an impressive damage reduction in most of the damage - I've been hit for 200 when Winter was down and it was cut down to 57 with Winter as a Ranger. This is mainly because rangers get their AL boosted to 100 always when Winter and Greater Conflagaration are down - they're capable of tanking when Mantra of Frost is on and do it just as well as the warriors do if not better depending on the warrior's armor. Just make sure Winter and Greater Conflagaration always stay up and you can enjoy 30-40% damage reduction along with +2 energy every time you're hit. In general, for pulling and tanking, the idea is to let the tank get FULL aggro meaning that every mob is hitting on him. The easiest method I've found to doing this is to use the walls and ledges to your advantage. In general without going into specifics, you need find spots where the melee will get stuck on your tank who is body blocking and attack him instead. Some people want the tank to pull but I feel it's sometimes easier if I pull and train (choo choo!) the enemies onto him. Then after you loose aggro you slap SV and AV on your tank to decrease their DPS. If there are enemy monks (Ki) in the group you pulled, kill them first. Sometimes you will have dual Ki groups which will require a little bit of luck of positioning to get them to bunch up. Lay down MS on Ki first and nuke them down fast with LB Gaze. I've found LB Gaze to be a GREAT skill here regardless of your class because it allows you to do damage and interrupts! If there are no monks but lots of melee, your best bet is to MS the melee first to kill them off and free your tank. If it's all casters and ranged, then of course MS + SF them. I can only explain this so much, the more you play the more you will understand on how this works with Margonites and other mobs... That's it for now. I'm still learning about DoA and it's challenges. This build can't do the Stygian Plains because of the mobs that spawn from the quest do dark damage... Please feel free to help me out. I'm not too good at remember the specifics of the cookie cutter builds like SS and monks and such so please feel free to ignore and adjust accordingly. Feel free to try this out and tell me about any adjustments you made. My major problem right now is the lack of DPS and the difficulty in keeping aggro on the tank. I also want to test more if a stance tank is better or using Mantra of Frost is superior. Sidenote: If anyone could post a decent Angelic Bond Paragon build, that would be great! I have a Paragon myself but I'm using him to spam GftE every time he lands a blow (or two if I drop "For Great Justice") to power Energizing Finale and/or Finale of Restoration. Anyways, I think Angelic Bond might be superior to Monk bonding here! Try it and post your experiences here. Screenshots: We beat the City using only this build of one monk (who had err7 before we killed Lord Jadoth, BiP, SS, 2 SF nukers (one who left), a Dervish tank, and me... took us 1 hour of trying to get a Ritualist and 4 hours of killing: Also, you get Primeval Armor Remenants for killing named Margonites and other named mobs, I got one piece when we killed the named monk at the end of the City.... so here is Olias with Primeval: Have fun guys! 
Last edited by LoKi Foxfire; Dec 05, 2006 at 03:38 AM // 03:38.. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52
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#2 |
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Debbie Downer
Join Date: May 2006
Profession: N/Me
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Looks good. But your SS sucks royally. Here's a significantly better one:
That'll work a million time better, will be more Energy efficient, and will prevent a ton more damage. Empathy and Price of Failue are crap due to long Cast times. I'd be willing to work it out. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59
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#3 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Why would you use Shadow of Fear in a SS build? That would just take longer wouldn't it?
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:00 AM // 06:00
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#4 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: California, USA
Guild: Angel Sharks [AS] (RiP [KaiZ] T__T")
Profession: Mo/E
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LoL you two make me giggle...
Reckless Haste - Increases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex) Shadow of Fear - Decreases enemy hit rate. (AoE Hex) The MAIN point of Using RH with SS, is so they INCREASE the amount of dmg that SS inflicts. With SoF, you just cancel that out. Makes both skills counterproductive to SS damage. You want an AoE cover hex? Take good ol' Suffering. Just some... umm... common sense is all. Hehe. Cheers! |
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:03 AM // 06:03
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#5 |
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Ascalonian Squire
Join Date: May 2005
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I tried this kind of build before in others area. The only weak points of this winter and phy-> fire build is................. chaos, dark, & holy dmg still cannot be converted. So, you still get no damage reduction from chaos, dark and holy dmg. I havent try DoA yet, but is there any mobs in there using dark, chaos, or holy dmg?
by the way, i finally find a better way to use the +10 against cold dmg shield, +10 against cold dmg ranger armor, + 10 against cold dmg ele armor and finally +7 against ele attack weapon mod. I wonder which proffesion will have the max armor and under this enviroment effect and what is the max armor you can get under this enviroment effect..... |
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09
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#6 | |
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Debbie Downer
Join Date: May 2006
Profession: N/Me
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Quote:
Casting SS on only Melee targets is a waste. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27
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#7 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida
Guild: One Corgi Army {OCA}
Profession: R/Rt
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You guys don't have to worry too much about the small points. Hell, I don't run SS often (if ever) on my necro; I prefer doing a MM.
I didn't think about adding Enfeebling Blood so I'll change that. Like I said, you don't HAVE to bring Shadow of Fear and YES I understand why you don't stack RH and SoF together. Either way, the melee in DoA use mostly hammers so you're better off slapping SS and RH on a Paragon and using SoF on the Melee that bunches around your tank.I really don't like Spinal Shivers that much since you'll go to zero energy when all the damage everyone deals is cold to begin with when you have Winter and Greater Conflagaration. Quote:
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37
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#8 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Feb 2006
Guild: Head Turners Inc.
Profession: W/E
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here's my own SS build:
N/Me ============= Arcane Echo Spiteful Spirit Reckless Haste Desecrate Enchantments Blood Ritual Ether Feast Drain Enchantment/Spirit of Failure Sunspear Signet/Rez Signet |
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:45 AM // 06:45
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#9 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Apr 2005
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2 searing flame nukers and no Paragon with "They're on Fire!"?
I think if you add that in, you can add in even more damage mitigation along with the other buffs a Paragon can bring. Maybe drop a monk for a Paragon with Angelic Bond? |
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Dec 02, 2006, 06:49 AM // 06:49
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#10 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: CA
Guild: [UC] Uber Crue
Profession: W/
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"The only weak points of this winter and phy-> fire build is................. chaos, dark, & holy dmg still cannot be converted."
Yup! "Maybe drop a monk for a Paragon with Angelic Bond?" That was also a thought of mine after trying. But it has greater(bad) effects on the party then it sounds.. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04
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#11 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida
Guild: One Corgi Army {OCA}
Profession: R/Rt
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Actually, I think I'd drop the bonder for an Angelic Bond Paragon. I gotta try that out sometime. It would be like Bonding except you can't remove it with disenchantments.
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Dec 02, 2006, 07:25 AM // 07:25
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#12 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: You want see?
Guild: True Gods of War [True]
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
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Dec 02, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29
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#13 |
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Read the title again...
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Dec 02, 2006, 07:39 AM // 07:39
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#14 |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Maguuma Stade
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When going into the City of Torc'qua warriors and other non-casters should take a staff weapon swap so they can swap, activate mantra, and swap back. Otherwise there is no way for them to renew mantra mid-battle.
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Dec 02, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15
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#15 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Guild: Uphill Battle [uB]
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Some friends and I did a variant of this, though we didn't get the idea from these forums and we only had two monks. We cleared all the outside and parts of the city before key characters were too dp'd to progress forward at a meaningful rate.
Two people in the group did manage to get margonite gemstone drops. We plan on going in tomorrow with some more people hopefully, since we had to take 2 heroes to make up for not finding competent people and having no available friends online with the appropriate class and skills. Nonetheless I'm just vouging for the GC/winter/mantra build, the idea works. Yet it takes more than just a build and players to make these things work. By the way, work a fertile season into the ranger. It does help despite what you might believe. And the shouts you have on your tank will in most cases be mute due to Vocal Minority necromancers, so if you want to keep them consider convert hexes or divert hexes. Also tanks should use the walls, especially wall edges to body block melee characters while holding aggro. In some cases the casters ball up right next to the melee enemies and then the SS and ele's, not to mention the gazes hit all of the enemies cracking their monks quickly. Candy Canes, bring some if you intend on completing this. If I think of anything else, I'll post it later. Good luck all. Last edited by Trelon Burg; Dec 02, 2006 at 08:22 AM // 08:22.. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 12:01 PM // 12:01
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#16 |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Oct 2006
Guild: Slotting Crew
Profession: R/
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http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10084473
I had a similar idea, based on rangers though. Loki, you wanna talk about this and see if we can compare ideas? |
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Dec 02, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39
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#17 |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: RA
Guild: [ODIN]
Profession: N/Mo
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I've been theorizing about what really needs to be done. Basically you're facing spammable massive damage. So...
Slow it OR Lower it With my Rit I've been bringing Union + Shelter AND asking for a Curse Necro with SoF. I've also thought that a mesmer w/ Migraine or other things that cause casting to stop/slow would be valuable. Even a Choking Gas ranger with the constant interrupts could prove useful. Enemy casters and melee have to be approached with the Slow/Lower idea, but with different skills. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08
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#18 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Sadly, if the monks were jonny on the spot with the hex removal, the Paragon could not only reduce the damage but also heal and give everyone energy boosts with Never Surrender and Song of Power - not to mention the benefit Anthem of Envy would have in this place. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55
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#19 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Florida
Guild: One Corgi Army {OCA}
Profession: R/Rt
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I still haven't grouped with a Communing Ritualist who has Shelter and Union and Soul Twisting. It's worth shot I guess. I'm going to be working this weekend so I won't have that much time to test it all out. Also, Vocal Minority won't stop Angelic Bond from being cast either so it's possible to create some sort of build which combines it with maybe Monk skills... no idea though.
That being said, the biggest key to all of the areas is having a very good puller who can use walls to his or her advantage and keeps all the aggro to themselves. |
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Dec 02, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48
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#20 |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2006
Guild: Commence Aggro [BaMf]
Profession: Mo/E
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My teams version
Okay, although that build from the OP is good, i personally found myteams version to be alot more safer and inflicting higher damage:
1 W/Me- Signet of Stamina, Endure Pain, Defy Pain, Dolyak Signet, Mantra of Frost, Res Sig, Shields Up!, 3 E/Me- Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Meteor Shower, Liquid Flame, GoLE, Mantra of Frost, Fire Attune, Res Sig 1 WoH monk and 1 ZB/prot monk 1 P/Rt- They're on Fire, Glowing Signet, Ballad+Aria of Restoration, Aria of Zeal, Vocal was sogugun(or whoever his name is), Stand Your Ground!, Signet of Return 1 R/Rt= Greater Conflag, Winter, Shelter, Union, Serpents Quickness, Draw Spirit, FoMF Now, I know that some of you might be saying to yourselves ''But, but, but, SS is a must in any build'' Well, we tried that, and it didnt work as well as the SF ele we placed in the build. Plus, we had tons of synergy. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourselves. |
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