Curse

ubermancer · Dec 07, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Dash was a poor example - how about a heal/restoration Mo/Rt using Spirit Light Weapon as their only Rit skill (assuming an ally who has placed spirits for the sake of comparison)? The problem is that youd be better off taking a Monk elite (Glimmer of Light), or at the very least more heavily investing in skill slots to Restoration (Vengeful Weapon).

My point was not that you shouldnt use your secondary proffession, just not abuse it. I was FAR from saying you should not use Rebirth on an E/Mo. (saying that I did is equivalent to sticking words in my mouth) I do personally run ~80% of my "general purpose" balanced pve builds as one class, with the exception of a Perma rez.

(and Dash is used for covering large portions of ground in a short period of time. it only lets you break aggro, without having to recharge at least once, if you are only skirting at the edge of their aggro bubble. I was thinking a Monk could use it to temporarily outpace the Melee in a spike, thereby stopping the spike. I was trying to draw the parallel between it and Dark Escape for useless in defense)

It is true that all armor including damage is going to be effected - it comes with anything level 28. The only way to bypass this is with degen or armor ignoring damage - like Shadow, Holy, Chaos and Vampiric. It is true that FoC is Shadow/Vampiric, but...

Acknowledging that Water is not all about damage (if about damage at all, sometimes), why do you decrease your utility in exchange for sub par damage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razorwood

If what he said in this thread is typical of him then his little box of builds must be running low of ideas.

And at the end of the day this is a brain storming thread not a "Let's put people's builds down thread"

My first post (written without ever having fought in DoA) indicates to you that Im a well run dry? How, Ascalonian Squire, do you figure that?

That aside, you chose an interesting interpretation of my remarks at an interesting point in your post (right after saying my 'little box of builds is running low on ideas' and before calling me 'blinded')... I will simply say this on that front:

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

Arguing that one's build is not running as efficiently as possible isn't a personal attack. It is meant to show weaknesses in order to allow for improvelent. Giving everyone a pat on the butt and a thumbs up to their build no matter how ridiculous it is doesn't really help anyone, even if it gives someone a false sense of accomplishment.

It is people who congratulate subpar concepts, and their subsequent fervant defense of them, that has caused the term PVE Care Bear to come into existance. Maybe the reason you play GW PVE is because you like to give thumbs up, use emotive symbols like ^___^ and words like 'kawaiiii'.

[I play PVE because my original experience with GW PVP (read: PvPers) was negative.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

The general idea was to have a necro AND a water ele work in conjunction.

Exactly. My friend Ken often runs Water Ele, and when I have happened to have my Necro alongside of him I use FoC to compliment the constant hexing without having to waste space with Suffering.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Actually i think the foc idea is a good one accept on a necro primary

That is my position, as well. (not sure if your thinking FoC gives you bonus per hex, it doesnt though)

If summation, if you are unhappy with the high armor of level 28+'s, then either A) use a different character B) focus more on utility C) overcome it with armor penetration.

There are ideas that combo well with Water, but simply adding FOC to a Water build is not a good idea. I would personally suggest simply dropping Ice Spear and FOC for Prodigy, Heal Party, and Protective Spirit (maybe Heal Other, depending on party composition).

What about Recurring Insecurity / Soul Barbs + Water spike? With a Me/N running RI/SB you can add ~50 (armor ignoring!) damage to EACH Water hex cast on a target.

What about Steam with SF Eles? What about Ward Against Foes/Ice Prison in a MoF group? Chilling Winds and Blinding Surge?

What about just not ever mentioning Ice Spear ever again?

Oh, and thank you Vital... Im cross posting that picture, with your attached caption, to our Guild forum

XvArchonvX · Dec 07, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

@ Lord Ra
I think you need to step away from the computer and breath for a minute, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Maybe the reason you play GW PVE is because you like to give thumbs up, use emotive symbols like ^___^ and words like 'kawaiiii'.

I assume this was aimed at Celestial Beaver since the quote of mine you responded to was basically in agreeance with what you said.

Cebe · Dec 08, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Dash was a poor example - how about a heal/restoration Mo/Rt using Spirit Light Weapon as their only Rit skill (assuming an ally who has placed spirits for the sake of comparison)? The problem is that youd be better off taking a Monk elite (Glimmer of Light), or at the very least more heavily investing in skill slots to Restoration (Vengeful Weapon).

Another bad comparison. Why would a monk bring spirit light weapon with no spirit? I'm not taking FoC in the hope that someone will be taking a mass hex. So...no....bad comparison. Deep Freeze hexes...Feast of Corruption steals health for me and deals damage. I played through half of Nightfall with this I liked it so much....it "ownd".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Acknowledging that Water is not all about damage (if about damage at all, sometimes), why do you decrease your utility in exchange for sub par damage?

If there's one word I hate it's "utility". So, what is a hydromancer's "utility"? To slow down. I've thought about the original build you slaughtered so violently and considered taking Freezing Gust instead of Ice Spear. So there we go...3 slow-downs. If I took Steam with a searing flames ele I could blind I guess. What is wrong with dealing some form of damage on top of that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

It is people who congratulate subpar concepts, and their subsequent fervant defense of them, that has caused the term PVE Care Bear to come into existance. Maybe the reason you play GW PVE is because you like to give thumbs up, use emotive symbols like ^___^ and words like 'kawaiiii'.

What can you say to that? Obviously, if that was directed at me, you know me so well. Because obviously you have played with me and know of what I do. WTF is 'kawaiii' anyway? So If you're going to make sweeping, generalising statements of that nature I can say that you must be one of those people who forces everyone to run a specific build you designed before going into any mission?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

[I play PVE because my original experience with GW PVP (read: PvPers) was negative.]

Finally something I agree with you on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

My friend Ken often runs Water Ele, and when I have happened to have my Necro alongside of him I use FoC to compliment the constant hexing without having to waste space with Suffering.

If a necro wants to bring FoC as well as, me bring it on. The more corruption the merrier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

If summation, if you are unhappy with the high armor of level 28+'s, then either A) use a different character B) focus more on utility C) overcome it with armor penetration.

A) Considering. I have 4 engmane characters now...thinking about trying my ritualist out.
B) "Meh"
C) Air Magic seems no better than any of the others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

There are ideas that combo well with Water, but simply adding FOC to a Water build is not a good idea. I would personally suggest simply dropping Ice Spear and FOC for Prodigy, Heal Party, and Protective Spirit (maybe Heal Other, depending on party composition).

Well this is just something we're going to have to agree to disagree on. I will be running FoC in one of my water builds...NOT ALL...I might add. I like to swap and change skills to try out different builds although one thing I will never, ever do is run heal party. Not that I have a problem with the skill...my problem is people's current perception of elementalists...it's the "all they are good for is spamming Heal Party" attitude...not good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

What about Steam with SF Eles? What about Ward Against Foes/Ice Prison in a MoF group? Chilling Winds and Blinding Surge?

Had thought about steam...I think I added that above somewhere...

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Ra

yawn.......this is why i don't pug ever. thank god my hench dont bring foc on an ele. the minion idea would be hella funny though. "yes water is there to help the nukers!" no shit sherlock, as i said deep freeze is 10 seconds UNCONDITIONAL slowdown, so why run an inferior dmg line in most of these places when your object is damage. Oh lets talk about ice spear while we are at it, i love when my ele runs INTO MOBS to ice spear people, expecially when ice spear does barly ANY dmg at all, and the mobs can 1-2 hit kill that ele. obviously you missed the memo about that skill havnt HALF RANGE. plz dont even try to defend yourself, when you do you look like more of an idiot. thats the reason why im 3/4 quests, and only havnt beat it cuz of an untimly err7 to a monk, and your still defending your foc water ele build. thanks for playing. wtb ether prodigy for 2k. water only has a place in the stygian quest, otherwise, its completly unneeded. and people criticizing uber on builds.....half of you wouldn't have anything to farm if it wasnt for him, but then again, like you look whos builds you jack anyways.

Ok so...if DF is 10 seconds unconditional Damage you're saying it would be fine to use it on a N/E running Deep Freeze and FoC? Seeing as you're just being downright insulting and I'm pretty close to reporting your post...Yes, I accept Ice Spear wasn't a great choice...and I know it has half range...maybe should have thought about that before I posted but then again this is a "brainstorming thread"....you don't seem to have grasped that concept. Oh, the only reason I haven't beaten any area of DoA is purely because I can't be bothered. I tried once and thought "maybe later". I have better things to do really like playing through the game with other characters. If you want to spend hours at a time trying to beat one area...fine. Just not my bag. If you're suggesting I need Ether Prodigy, just don't even go there. Yes I have the skill...no you wouldn't have the "right" to have a go at me if I didn't own prophecies and couldn't get the skill...NO i wouldn't use it. I don't need an energy storage elite, for many of my builds... If you do...poor you. Frankly I don't care if Ubermancer has made lots of builds. I'm sure many of them are very good. Can't say if I've used one or not but I tend not to use many pre-made builds...aside from anything I hardly farm much, and FYI I got the idea of using FoC from someone else on this forum...maybe you should track them down and give them a piece of your mind.

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So. After all that the problem seems a little...academic. I don't plan on running water in DoA unless someone specifically asks me to as I have tried water and, as I have said before, they just seem to have too much armor vs it. Considering giving my ritualist a try since she has just got endgame. She's a Rt/R...I'll try not to "clog" her skillbar up with ranger skills

I have no problem with you Ubermancer, and my reply was not to attack you in any way...I just don't agree with you not agreeing with my use of FoC

As for Lord Ra...that was just downright insulting.

Sword · Dec 08, 2006, 09:29 AM // 09:29

e surge + e burn + spirtual pain. maybe archane echo, diverions or power return for bosses? ( i dunno i havent done these missions)

Razorwood · Dec 08, 2006, 09:47 AM // 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Ra

and people criticizing uber on builds.....half of you wouldn't have anything to farm if it wasnt for him, but then again, like you look whos builds you jack anyways.

Every build I use I came up with myself and I do plenty of farming, in fact I made a fun N/R build last night.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ubermancer

My first post (written without ever having fought in DoA) indicates to you that Im a well run dry? How, Ascalonian Squire, do you figure that?

What does my forum title have to do with anything? Because I rarely post here my opinion doesn't count? Or does it mean I have to agree with you? I'm confused. Maybe I should spam and suck up to you to raise my title?

I fail to see how you can judge me on that. Judging me on a forum that is mostly filled with drivle, figure that? If you look at my date i've also been here longer than you so one can assume i've also played longer.... Which means i'm not just a "squire".

Cebe · Dec 08, 2006, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword

e surge + e burn + spirtual pain. maybe archane echo, diverions or power return for bosses? ( i dunno i havent done these missions)

Dare I suggest Signet of Humility...maybe stop the Margonite Sorcerors from churning out quite so many Invoke Lightnings...

capitalist · Dec 08, 2006, 05:06 PM // 17:06

@ Razor
I think this a lose-lose situation for you.

@Everyone else.
Every farming build I ever used I jacked from someone... except that Rt/Me pre-sear bear farming build.

@Ra
The only reason you aren't 4/4 is because I had finals.

@

fgarvin · Dec 08, 2006, 06:09 PM // 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

@Ra
The only reason you aren't 4/4 is because I had finals.

Actually its because Ken isn't using Burning Speed.

gabrial heart · Dec 08, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

That is my position, as well. (not sure if your thinking FoC gives you bonus per hex, it doesnt though)

Woah, when did that happen? I just looked, it used to give you x life stealing bonus per hex...WTH? It used to be a worthwhile skill... Maybe it never worked that way, but i had once thought it did.

I'm still waiting a total nerf to Zealous Ben as well.... :sigh:

As far as the discussion on ele's taking FOC... I could think of a few other elites I'd rather have, like mirror of ice, prodigy or even ele attune over FOC.

LONGA · Dec 08, 2006, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I dont have a built in my mind but a Deep Wound condition should take care of a single enemy pretty good for a lvl 28 Mob.

[riVen] · Dec 09, 2006, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Deep Wound caps at 100HP, these mobs have 1140HP each... not that impressive.

ubermancer · Dec 09, 2006, 03:44 AM // 03:44

. . . The Gods Themselves . . .

Lord Ra · Dec 09, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

downright insulting? good, if it makes you rethink your ideas then it accomplished all i wanted. (but i coulda done it a much nicer way)-ya i could have, but i didnt, whats done is done.

and thats odd shit nak, once your finals were over, we beat the 4th...scary indeed, not to mention kens lack of burning speed made everything so much...less interesting.

your mesmer build would be interesting, id just suggest using powerblock, 80 dmg every 20 seconds isn't that hot. wastrels demise would also be a good choice. backfire on the ki is really all but required if you want to get threw anything fast, so pure domination could do some good damage.

As for deep wound, ya its not nearly good enough to actually worry about, too much damn health.

Actual brain storming...wait till the part after you kill the 4 generals............damn thats all i gotta say. basically all i can come up with is having the npc tank (bonds, shield of absorb..exc). anyone else who is there have any ideas?

Kenagalaz · Dec 09, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by fgarvin

Actually its because Ken isn't using Burning Speed.

I'm sorry you had to be at your wife's xmas office party, but the D/E Burning Speed Avatar of Melandru tank with the 3 Searing flame eles made the quest go so fast.

Lordhelmos · Dec 09, 2006, 08:32 AM // 08:32

A crazy idea but I saw a sick Mystic Sandstorm Spike being run in HA. Perhaps we could take a few dervs into DoA and stack them with Mystic Sandstorm, Heart of Holy Flame, Aura of Thorns, Staggering Force, Mirage Cloak, and have them run AoD as the Elite. All of the dervs and the party would have LB rank 8 and lightbringers gaze. My idea would be to LB gaze the hell out of the group with a spike as ensign said and then have the dervish AoD in and mystic sandstorm key targets. The mystic sandstorm would break AoD, which sends the dervs in for the area damage/conditions and then warps them back out into safety. The party would then run with a warrior using charge or a paragon using godspeed for a mass retreat and monks would heal up while the party regroups for a second strike. It would be a mass hit and run tactic that has the potential of doing incredible damage and yet keeping the party relatively safe. The dervs would have to precast their spike and coordinate well, planning an escape route incase aggro draws on them after they AoD out. A ritualists could probably also setup a nice spirit safety nest for the Dervish to AoD from in order to protect them incase a margonite were to get a lucky invoke lightning. This would kill shelter rather than the dervish.

fgarvin · Dec 09, 2006, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

I'm sorry you had to be at your wife's xmas office party, but the D/E Burning Speed Avatar of Melandru tank with the 3 Searing flame eles made the quest go so fast.

Seriously? That's awesome !

Yeah, the wife's party kinda ruined my DoA plans. I was looking forward to party wiping one more time, but hey, there's always tomorrow. I did however get to see some guy with a singing santa hat, almost like the dude in Harry Potter that chooses your house.

Cebe · Dec 11, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

That is my position, as well. (not sure if your thinking FoC gives you bonus per hex, it doesnt though)

Sorry! Just noticed this! Not sure why I didnt before but...well...no. You steal health if they are under the effects of a hex. How do I know this? I was moving my necro through Elona this weekend using this skill and...I gained health when FoC hit someone with a hex. Not sure where you got that information from unless we're walking cross-purposes.

dgb · Dec 11, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

They do require attribute spending

Not to be better than Dash on a monk...

gabrial heart · Dec 11, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Sorry! Just noticed this! Not sure why I didnt before but...well...no. You steal health if they are under the effects of a hex. How do I know this? I was moving my necro through Elona this weekend using this skill and...I gained health when FoC hit someone with a hex. Not sure where you got that information from unless we're walking cross-purposes.

Pretty sure he/she was responding to my post where it stated FOC steals health PER hex. Meaning for each hex on a foe steals x amount of health. For some odd reason i thought it worked that way.

Cebe · Dec 11, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

Pretty sure he/she was responding to my post where it stated FOC steals health PER hex. Meaning for each hex on a foe steals x amount of health. For some odd reason i thought it worked that way.

Ahh ok, My bad