Curse

ubermancer · Dec 02, 2006, 05:38 PM // 17:38

Im thinking of 'I dont want to put up with this, I just want to get through it' builds for DoA.

Flare at 12 Fire Magic (48dmg base) does 41 vs Tormented Monks, Eles, Mesmers, etc. 21 damage vs Paragons. Now, of course they deal quite a lot of damage. So you need to take as little damage as possible, as infrequently as possible. (Numbers were gathered in Ravenwood Veil.)

What about several (6ish) E/A who use Recall, Dark Escape, Glyph of Sacrifice, Meteor Shower, and Assassin's Promise? They could precast Recall on a backline character (read: Monk or Rit or even an Angelic Bond Paragon), precast Glyph of Sacrifice.. then run in with Dark Escape on, let a Meteor Shower go (instant cast), follow up with a short nuke (should the enemies allow you to), then Assassin's Promise. At around this time, you cancel the Recall, then reap the benefits as ~100 * 3 * (number of eles) is done to your target, which has only 640 HP (standard for level 28 foes). Of course, one of those being Water is NOT a bad idea.

The problem is that in order to get Assassin's Promise to work you need to avoid having it end before they die. And doing that means both killing them fast, and preventing the hex from being removed.

I am uncertain on how to deal with the Warriors, who would not easily die ~60 * 3 * eles damage. Snares and more basic offense (immolate, fireball, and pretty much the entire Water line) might be in order.

Now this is kind of a lame approach to completing these quests. But seeing as how people trapped Urgoz for the longest, I have learned that PUGs have no objection to lame approaches.

Similiarly, Bone Minion Factory with someone spamming Death Nova is viable. Thats ~100 damage per minion, and you can easily send in 20 minions - they cant kill them all before they get in range... well, without AOEs.

Taking advantage of QZ is requisite in the areas where foes use it. Jagged Bones on backline Necro with Taste of Death allows him to fuel the Soul Reaping of the party's necros to an absurd degree. I think I worked it out to as much as +17 effective ENERGY regen, under sub ideal conditions. [remember this is a strictly backline character]

Due to Enraged exacerbating the already excessive damage from the foes in this area (I /love/ it) it is not always wise to simply spread damage around 'slowly' like SS does. Instead *BAM* striking a single foe dead in a couple of seconds seems to be the ideal approach. As is being able to retreat rapidly (at least until it is well known what to do at each stage - I have been playing very infrequently so I am not at that yet).

Killing high armor foes is possible most obviously by using armor ignoring skills. Smiters, for example (beware Rust). Desecrate / Defile Enchantments / FOC is capable of dealing quite a lot of damage, but typically not enough to instagib an AOE outside of

Earth Ele tank with Armor of Earth, Obsidian Flesh, Stoneflesh Aura, Feigned Nuetrality, and Dark Escape. Combine with Symbiosis, Angelic Bond / Incoming, and Monk Bonds. If you can keep aggro on that, chances are nothing is going to be killing it. (-31 dmg reduction, +162 armor, damage from attacks is halved, damage from all sources is halved 3 or so times, tons of extra hp) Oh, and use Dwayna's Kiss and Sliver Armor, too.

Many areas seem to stack nearly a dozen hexes on you at once. I hate to say it, but a Shatter Hex / Smite Hex spike might be very effective, in specific scenarios.

Gemini Assassins (2x A/Me, using a tricky combination of Arcane Echo and Shadow Form) might be able to deal significant enough single target damage to be worth considering. The new, powerful Signets play into their already energy intensive strategy well.

Several people have mentioned Mantra of Frost B/P. They complain about a lack of single target damage, which I agree is a problem - in a stupid PUG B/P group. Do what the PVP'ers do, Dual Shot and Savage Shot/Distracting Shot is capable of putting the hurt on a single target under Orders (fast recharging, too). IWAY is a particularly good idea when the Order of Whispers are about, aiding you. Dont use your pets to try to 'tank'. Set them up with Death Novas, and have someone ready to Putrid Explosion the second they go down. (200+ armor ignoring aoe stings... always wondered how well a Me/N would do in that capacity)

Bring EW in the areas with QZ - makes more since then trying to kill QZ. The mobs are effected by QZ's increased energy cost, perhaps it could be possible to energy lock the casters?

Thats enough brain storming for me at the moment.

--

Okay I lied.

2x Me/E with Arcane Echo, Savannah Heat x2. A third E/x or Me/E with Water Hexes. Assuming they stay in range the entire time, thats 15 * base damage per Savannah Heat (5 procs of base, plus the fourth triangular number, 10, since the first second doesnt cause bonus damage). At 12 Fire thats 17 damage, so 255 damage per Savannah Heat (or 321 at 16 Fire). Most casters seem to take ~5/6th normal damage, or around 210 per Savannah Heat. I *highly* doubt anything is going to live through a few Me/E's using Savannah Heat like that! (of course, lets not forget Lightning Hammer, Chain Lightning, Invoke Lightning, or the heavenly Lightning Orb and their effectiveness in the hands of Mesmers)

LifeInfusion · Dec 03, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Gonna need a snaring AoE water hex with any kind of AoE that doesn't knock down or snare. (Deep Freeze or Mesmer's Shared Burden)

carbajac · Dec 03, 2006, 07:18 AM // 07:18

So I was thinking about ideas and it seems that normal defense measures aren't enough: Bond monks' enchantments get stripped, rit spirits die too fast, mantra's aren't strong enough, paragon defenses aren't strong enough.

What about a 55/SS necro using Protective Bond. The team would require other bond monks to cover his enchantments and a BiP necro. If an SS necro isn't strong enough, what about a low health nuker?

Just an idea.

Crimson Baron · Dec 03, 2006, 08:02 AM // 08:02

I dunno how the protective bond would work out, considering in one mission you already lose 2 energy whenever you do anything and -4 on every hit will RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO with you no matter what.

Eclair · Dec 03, 2006, 08:12 AM // 08:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbajac

So I was thinking about ideas and it seems that normal defense measures aren't enough: Bond monks' enchantments get stripped, rit spirits die too fast, mantra's aren't strong enough, paragon defenses aren't strong enough.

What about a 55/SS necro using Protective Bond. The team would require other bond monks to cover his enchantments and a BiP necro. If an SS necro isn't strong enough, what about a low health nuker?

Just an idea.

Spellbreaker the tank, solves most of the strip enchant problems, and makes the casters waste all their energy quickly.

ubermancer · Dec 03, 2006, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Yes, I mentioned somewheres in my post that Deep Freeze is a great, night essential idea.

Do they have any strips that can handle SpellBreaker?

w00t! · Dec 03, 2006, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eclair

Spellbreaker the tank, solves most of the strip enchant problems, and makes the casters waste all their energy quickly.

Yeah, I've tried several different monk builds, and I believe that SB is probably a necessity down there, for the exact reason you stated. All other enchants are getting stripped, and 10 seconds later, it's gg.

And to your point Ubermancer, I've yet to see anything in the game that will take down spellbreaker. That's the whole point of the elite.

Bankai · Dec 03, 2006, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I was thinking of a team with 3 warders with ward against foes/melee, and sanstorm.

carbajac · Dec 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

True, spellbreaker is a nice skill for this area, but the way the monster AI is now, as soon as the casters step up (after the tank has set up), they do eventually get targeted. Once that happens, SB is nearly moot.

Fluffyx · Dec 03, 2006, 10:59 AM // 10:59

I was actually thinking of including xinraes weapon into one of my builds, I think it could actually find some use against the spell related spikes.

Nine Soul · Dec 03, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

SB or Obs Flesh for the tank. It works.

Ensign · Dec 03, 2006, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Eight copies of Lightbringer's Gaze will blow up a lot of the monsters instantly. Have a couple people echo it, or start with another AoE skill (Surge/Deep Freeze), and you can one-shot quite a few packs. Before they can respond.

Peace,
-CxE

Olyf · Dec 03, 2006, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I've found that for tanks using the Elite Lightbringer skill -Lightbringer signet-helps with that extra surge of energy and adenaline for keeping those important skills up while tanking the Margonites.

getalifebud · Dec 03, 2006, 01:56 PM // 13:56

I've had an idea, that if im the first to have come up with, then hooray for me.

Its based off the renewal nuker on guildwiki.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Build:E/Me_Heavy_Nuker

Take one of these guys, and back him up with another nuker, using the same build, but swap fire for water taking the skills...

Ice spikes
Deep freeze
Maelstrom

This way you can bunch them up into a massive AoE attack.

TomD22 · Dec 03, 2006, 02:11 PM // 14:11

For the defence against those mobs, everyone seems to have forgotten shelter!

Sure, it dies in a couple of seconds if your whole team tanks damage (but it last a little longer if the squishies stay out of the way and your prot spirit monk knows what he's doing).

But - there's also the skill Soul Twisting {e}. Instant recharge on shelter. With a QZ making the soul twising recharge faster, and a BiP supplying the rit, you can have 24/7 shelter.

So your entire backline defence could be: Rit with soul twisting and shelter, monk with healer's boon and heal party (or LoD), and a bip necro supplying them both (oh, and qz somewhere on a r/* or */r).

TomD22 · Dec 03, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Eight copies of Lightbringer's Gaze will blow up a lot of the monsters instantly. Have a couple people echo it, or start with another AoE skill (Surge/Deep Freeze), and you can one-shot quite a few packs. Before they can respond.

Peace,
-CxE

We tried that with an alliance group on vent - 3, 2, 1, spike! I'm not sure why, but it really didn't work. None of use were above r3 lighbringer, but still, we couldn't spike even one monster down.

Nine Soul · Dec 03, 2006, 03:18 PM // 15:18

I'm thinking B/P might work in the Foundry. With slight modifications, ofc.

Zinger posted an FoC build for a necro - take one of those to counter melee and ranged dmg. A Paragon with "Stand Your Ground!", Song of Restoration and some other support skills. 2 Monks, let's say one with LoD or HBoon + HP, the other with Aegis or something similar, plus (if you can manage it) Ward Against Elements.

That leaves you with 4 B/Ps (ignore the P and go B/I). Occasionaly use LB Gaze. *Should* work. Not saying it does, so no bashing and flaming me if it doesn't.

Dec 03, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

What about a Searing Flames Nuker, with someone to spam burning, like 2 or 3 fire mesmers, and a SF nuker....That'd do some damage.

Zinger314 · Dec 03, 2006, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Eight copies of Lightbringer's Gaze will blow up a lot of the monsters instantly. Have a couple people echo it, or start with another AoE skill (Surge/Deep Freeze), and you can one-shot quite a few packs. Before they can respond.

Peace,
-CxE

That doesn't work because the Margonite Healers are freaking unbelieveable. They use both Healer's Boon and Healing Whisper. That, combined with their ridicolous attributes, can outheal most spikes.

ubermancer · Dec 03, 2006, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by w00t!

And to your point Ubermancer, I've yet to see anything in the game that will take down spellbreaker. That's the whole point of the elite.

Chilblains, Well of the Profane, Order of Apostasy, Expunge Enchantments, Signet of Disenchantment, Dark Apostasy, Disenchantment, Assault Enchantments, Avatar of Grenth, Lift Enchantments and Shattering Assault can all remove Spellbreaker. I may have left a couple out. Nothing is without a counter, thats the whole point of the /game/.

I believe the whole point of LB spiking is to have it at rank 5+, so you can actually have a good chance of outright killing your target.

Monks can be shut down. A single character going full monk shut down can lay the hurt down so much it isnt funny (1/3 heal effectiveness (Defile Flesh, etc), Diversion, Backfire, Scourge Healing, Shame, etc). You may have energy problems, but god knows there are ways to bypass that (Power Drain, BiP, support Paragon, and oh yeah Power Drain). Not sure how great they are with hex removal... do the Mesmers have it as well as the Monks? If its only 1-2 characters in a group that can remove hexes you can handle that.

As for Xinrae's stuff... not sure its worth it. 30 second recharge? Even assuming that gets dropped to 15 seconds from QZ, you are eating its huge energy cost. And you cant guarantee itll even DO anything.

I need to spend some time down there in a real group, Ive only played around with Heroes so far.