Curse

ubermancer · Dec 18, 2006, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Divinor

Hmm, the spirits seem a way forward and with Razah obtainable (even if it is really hard) he'll probably be a key factor in taking Mallyx down. If we can blind him and interrupt him for a fair amount of time, wont he/it be rendered useless? I'm not even there yet, I'm just throwing ideas out.

He is immune to Conditions and Hexes, and highly, highly resistant to death.

Burst Cancel · Dec 18, 2006, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by [riVen]

As per what I wrote above, no, it would not be worse than groups of Stygian touch necros.

I don't know if you're saying this simply to be argumentative, but if that is your honest opinion I think you would find yourself in the extreme minority of GW players. It takes maybe 15 seconds to kill a group of Stygian monsters. It could take over 15 minutes to kill a real balanced group.

You could fill endgame areas with monster groups that played like GvG guilds and guarantee that 99% of the playerbase would never be able to complete them. Think of an area where every monster group is a spike team. By the time you reach the 4th or 5th group, several of your party members are probably at 60DP, if you weren't just outright wiped. How about an area where every team was balanced pressure? Even if you could beat that area, how long do you think it would take, fighting monster teams that chained aegis, sat in wards, had rangers or mesmers babysitting your nukers and monks, and a blindbot sitting on your warriors?

I'm sure Anet could do it, but I'm equally sure that the majority of PvE players would simply quit.

Craero · Dec 18, 2006, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

He is immune to Conditions and Hexes, and highly, highly resistant to death.

Incorrect, Incorrect, Correct.

He can be affected by conditions and hexes but his consume torment skill works like a self targeting Restore condition/Blessed light buffed. As for highly resistant to death... no one doubts that so far.

[riVen] · Dec 18, 2006, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I don't know if you're saying this simply to be argumentative, but if that is your honest opinion I think you would find yourself in the extreme minority of GW players. It takes maybe 15 seconds to kill a group of Stygian monsters. It could take over 15 minutes to kill a real balanced group.

I'd rather spend 15 minutes killing a challenging and smart mob, and have LESS mobs in a zone ovbiously, than spend 15 seconds per group in a zone CROWDED with gimmicky mobs/effects.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

You could fill endgame areas with monster groups that played like GvG guilds and guarantee that 99% of the playerbase would never be able to complete them. Think of an area where every monster group is a spike team. By the time you reach the 4th or 5th group, several of your party members are probably at 60DP, if you weren't just outright wiped. How about an area where every team was balanced pressure? Even if you could beat that area, how long do you think it would take, fighting monster teams that chained aegis, sat in wards, had rangers or mesmers babysitting your nukers and monks, and a blindbot sitting on your warriors?

As I said, In PvE you will always have the advantage of knowing what you will be up against, and the people that want an endgame challenge will be smarter than mob AI. Therefore, you shouldn't ever end up with DP'd out party members after 4 mobs.

Also, just as an example, the Choking Gas ranger Giants in the Desolation do babysit your casters.
Your entire logic is flawed. If you can handle this in PvP, then you'll definately be able to handle such a team setup in PvE, as per the reasons above.

All I'm saying is, make smart mobs, not overpowered ones. Overpowered mobs in favor of good AI is pure laziness (or maybe they just don't feel like spending time and thus money on creating something decent -- we might as well throw in the "this game has no monthly fee, we're in no position to demand or expect anything" argument... except that won't cut it in the long run).

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say Burst... do you actually like DoA? Would you do the entire quest over because you enjoy plowing through stupidly overpowered mobs and zones that require glitches to beat? Can you honestly argue that it would be a better idea to take the gimmick-free FoW/UW setup and impove on that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

I'm sure Anet could do it, but I'm equally sure that the majority of PvE players would simply quit.

Karlos · Dec 18, 2006, 10:33 PM // 22:33

You need to study the challenge presented in DoA and learn what it is ANet is throwing at you.

The skill "Enraged" means that foes will heavily penalize you for non-focused fire. If you damage a lot of foes simultaneously, you pay dearly for that. The Margbonites mess up your energy, the Titans spam conditions and degen, the Tormentors spam hexes and the Stygian creatures are pure physical damage + their touchers.

You need to be able to be ready for these challenges. You also need to control your firepower so as not to spawn more groups before finishing off the ones you have. One of the most important keys to an "easier" (but by no means easy) run is to keep one foe alive (of the original foes that came in the group), until your party's energy and skills are ready and until your tank is ready to face the next mob.

This is all about recognizing the challenges and responding to them. If you wish to just enter with the same skill bar you had in Kourna, then GG. You'll have a VERY bad time. I would think the Realm of Torment already made it clear that "No Static Skill Bars Allowed" is the name of the game there.

aohige · Dec 18, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wrynn

My problem with the whole of DoA is this: its gimmick vs. gimmick.
True: FoW / UW arent exactly SUPER ZOMGWTF hard anymore, but as someone mentioned, it doesnt take "Forming Team Build X for Y zone"
It takes a group of competant people, thats it.

I don't understand why these "OMG DoA requires certain builds and only those builds work it sucks it's unlike UW/FoW" arguments keeps coming up. Have you even finished any of the DoA, or are you just complaining without even giving it a try?

The builds are not nearly important as understanding PvE tactics.
We've already done all four of the parts 3 or 4 times, all with diffrent members, classess, etc. You can be very flexible in builds.

What, PuG don't like flexible builds?
Well, that's their problem. And frankly, most of those PuG's are failing miserably at this area too.

DoA is no diffrent. I'll throw your own words back at you.
"It takes a group of competant people, thats it. "

[riVen] · Dec 18, 2006, 11:01 PM // 23:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

You need to study the challenge presented in DoA and learn what it is ANet is throwing at you.

The skill "Enraged" means that foes will heavily penalize you for non-focused fire. If you damage a lot of foes simultaneously, you pay dearly for that. The Margbonites mess up your energy, the Titans spam conditions and degen, the Tormentors spam hexes and the Stygian creatures are pure physical damage + their touchers.

You need to be able to be ready for these challenges. You also need to control your firepower so as not to spawn more groups before finishing off the ones you have. One of the most important keys to an "easier" (but by no means easy) run is to keep one foe alive (of the original foes that came in the group), until your party's energy and skills are ready and until your tank is ready to face the next mob.

This is all about recognizing the challenges and responding to them. If you wish to just enter with the same skill bar you had in Kourna, then GG. You'll have a VERY bad time. I would think the Realm of Torment already made it clear that "No Static Skill Bars Allowed" is the name of the game there.

Old facts. Personally, I haven't had any problems completing the 4 areas, the argument was about the retardedness of it all. "Enraged" is pure laziness on Anet's side. Not to mention the fact that it doesn't make sense; they lessen the AoE nerf by allowing mobs to take more damage before scattering and present us with some extremely powerful new AoE spells like SF, Sandstorm and the like.

Your analysis of the various creature types is amazing. 8 Bull's Charge warriors that hit for 500-700 damage per hit, please enlighten me how you battle them without having a tank hold them on a corner and nuke the shit out of them?

Do you honestly think that the average PUG will be able to last longer than, say, 10 seconds in the second room (the really small one) of Foundry, without using the stupid pet trick?

Burst Cancel · Dec 18, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by [riVen]

As I said, In PvE you will always have the advantage of knowing what you will be up against, and the people that want an endgame challenge will be smarter than mob AI. Therefore, you shouldn't ever end up with DP'd out party members after 4 mobs.

What is the strategy against spike teams? Res fast and keep pressuring them - you assume that you're going to take deaths. A perfect spike (especially a CPU-controlled one) is not infusable, period, so there is no way you are not going to accrue DP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [riVen]

Also, just as an example, the Choking Gas ranger Giants in the Desolation do babysit your casters.
Your entire logic is flawed. If you can handle this in PvP, then you'll definately be able to handle such a team setup in PvE, as per the reasons above.

You've missed one obvious difference between PvP and PvE. PvE requires you to fight several mobs consecutively, whereas each PvP battle is self-contained. Imagine GvG where you had to fight one team after another without resetting each battle. It would be unreasonable, and it would take forever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by [riVen]

I'm not sure what it is you're trying to say Burst... do you actually like DoA? Would you do the entire quest over because you enjoy plowing through stupidly overpowered mobs and zones that require glitches to beat? Can you honestly argue that it would be a better idea to take the gimmick-free FoW/UW setup and impove on that?

I'm saying that I would rather do DoA than PvP-in-PvE. When I want to fight enemies that play like a GvG team, I just GvG.

I have my own problems with DoA, but they have to do with the amount of time investment required and the disproportionately low rewards, not with the difficulty (or type of difficulty) of the monsters.

Retribution X · Dec 19, 2006, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Look at what one of Razah's starter skills is...

Warmonger's Weapon

Hmm. I wonder. Usefull?

[riVen] · Dec 19, 2006, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

What is the strategy against spike teams? Res fast and keep pressuring them - you assume that you're going to take deaths. A perfect spike (especially a CPU-controlled one) is not infusable, period, so there is no way you are not going to accrue DP.

Zaishen Elite, Obs Flame spike team, PvP-in-PvE. Their spikes aren't 100% perfect, and interrupt one or two OFs and it's bye bye spike. Bad example maybe, but just saying, CPU-controlled spikes don't always have to be 100% perfect.

I really wasn't advocating PvP-in-PvE, I just wanna see quality over quantity, which would mean better equipped skillbars and mob formations et cetera, instead of "Enraged" and all the other bs. Only very few people enjoy what Anet pulled in DoA, and GW isn't gonna survive for very long if they keep this up (also note how each subsequent chapter has less endgame content... and endgame content is what keeps games like this alive).

Well, I'm done arguing... enjoy DoA

Bowstring Badass · Dec 19, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Whammo with Healing Hands and Frenzy? lol

Craero · Dec 19, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

He removes enchantments (Healing hands) and if you even thought about activating frenzy near him without shelter nearby he would happily look at you for 800 damage.

Mesmer in Need · Dec 19, 2006, 01:26 AM // 01:26

theres nothing wrong with malyx. he gives you a fight that you actually need to think about. but obviously anet gaves us clues how.. say razah like most people have been saying. but there is one thing wrong. what you get. nobody wants crappy greens with reused skins. all we want is cool skinned greens (cough crystalin cough) with mods other than sundering. is that too much to ask for?

Jimmy Dean · Dec 19, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by lulu_at_sin

there were more stuff, one shield for example. but get a pic of it.

a ritu staff, and a couple a more things, but no axe and no sword. i think the drops are random.

and yeah the reused skins sucks.

Here's a thought that I haven't seen anyone mention yet: Of the six green weapons dropped by Urgoz and Kanaxei, only two of them had new skins. Maybe the axe and/or sword or some other weapons that Mallyx can drop will indeed have a new skin.

Also, the Urgoz Flatbow and the Kanaxei Sword held their values nicely for quite some time despite not having a unique or new skin.

JD

wassup1444465 · Dec 19, 2006, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Beating Kanaxei or Urgoz takes about the length of time it takes to successfully complete one of these individual areas.

Jimmy Dean · Dec 19, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

And each of the individual areas has its own unique green items that drop, many with new skins.

aohige · Dec 19, 2006, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Yes, the gigantic Stygian daggers with awesome unique skin, that looks like it covers your entire hands with a pleagueborn weapon is very cool.
Much cooler than the reused skins Mallyx weapons have.

You can's discount the fact that other areas of the Mallyx quest also drops greens. Overall, the total volume of prizes are actually higher than Urgoz/Deep. Of course, so is total time for completion...

Mr.Pickle · Dec 19, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

First off I found the spirit and energy in Mallyx how to hill him?an interesting read in the beginning...but got lost somewhere after Lulu. Please include strategy in defeating this area not just brag and flame.

Questions:
Unnatural Signet is it effective?
Intereted in knowing more about use of Flesh Golem here.
Ritualists and Paragons are they very effective and what has worked well.
Whats an overall effective strategy in completing Mallyx.

I'd be interested in a screenshot and skill list of successful team builds.
Completion green drops are an important note but that doesn't seem as necessary to the original posts discription.

Tuor Son Of Huor · Dec 19, 2006, 10:11 AM // 10:11

^QFE^

How do we kill this mammer jammer? you'd think that discussions about the bad skins would have its own thread by now. Maybe it should. For now, why doesn't lulu tell us how he/she did it.

ramma77 · Dec 19, 2006, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Is it actually confirmed that Mallyx was slapped down?
or are we just taking peoples words for it?