Curse

Dougal Kronik · Jan 16, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Attribute Refund Points, ah...the good ol' days.

GloryFox · Jan 16, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by creelie
Why, when *I* was raising up a monk, we had to run all over a desert infested with horrible burrowing scarabs, hordes of flying mesmer-things, and meteor-summoning three-headed lizards! We didn't even have primary quests to point the way! We had to pander to the endless bizarre requests of a ghost with all the movement AI of a slug! I - a healer by trade - had to find a way to kill something equipped with my own unlocked skills, and boy hecky that was no picnic. And we did it all without anywhere NEAR maximum-strength armor.

It just goes to show that Elonian made characters have it easy at best. Ascension meant something then, as it was a test of courage and a badge of honor. Now it has been reduced to a cave of bugs.

There needs to be three new titles
“Ascended”
“Closer to the Stars”
and
“I Bug Stomped”

CyberMesh0 · Jan 17, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

There needs to be three new titles
“Ascended”
“Closer to the Stars”
and
“I Bug Stomped”

I lol'd at that one.

Seriously, Prophecies made me think I actually accomplished something, with both the ascension and the 15 attrib points quests. The only annoying one was where you had to visit the three desert towns after ascending. (this was pre-desert runs btw :-p) Cantha and Elona have it so much more dumbed down, I didn't feel nearly as special when getting there, hell I didn't know until way after my first play-through of Elona where exactly I had ascended. Please, for the love of Dwayna, at least have us ascend before the 15 attribute point quests in Chapter 4.

noir0 · Jan 17, 2007, 05:27 PM // 17:27

Mmmm not to be a party pooper but from a lore perspective it makes sense to not have actual ascension in elona. I mean if there was ascension in elona why did the ancient elonians travel all the way to the crystal desert to be.. ehm.. ascended? Doesn't make sense if they could just go to moddock crevice and bobs your uncle become ascended. :/

GloryFox · Jan 17, 2007, 05:39 PM // 17:39

Quote:

Mmmm not to be a party pooper but from a lore perspective it makes sense to not have actual ascension in elona. I mean if there was ascension in elona why did the ancient elonians travel all the way to the crystal desert to be.. ehm.. ascended? Doesn't make sense if they could just go to moddock crevice and bobs your uncle become ascended. :/

Perhaps your right... maybe there needs to be a special skill for those that pass ascension and those who are Closer to the stars, kind of like light bringer gaze but a skill only for those who pass the tests of ascension and closer to the stars? Maybe that will set those people aside and make them feel more accomplished.

GranDeWun · Jan 17, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Ascension isn't what it used to be...I went back to Tyria and ascended my assassin with heroes and henchies, and was amazed at how easy the three missions were. (And I didn't even change skills to beat my doppleganger...)

Taala · Jan 17, 2007, 08:36 PM // 20:36

I think people shouldn't even compare ascension with becoming closer to the stars etc..

Ascending in Prophecies is great fun and goes with the story. Closer to the stars in Factions, still goes with the story. But just because it and ascending both are used as a trigger for secondary change and access to UW/FoW, they are compared with each other. This makes becoming closer to the stars feel a bit silly and it seems like it was made a bigger deal than it actually is in the game.

Now Nightfall is improvement to this. The trigger for secondary changes just happens along while progressing in the story. Such trigger does not require legendary heroic feats. We already got to save three continents and probably the world three times already and having "an ascension" three times over would just feel like silly copying of Prophecies.

As it is in the lore: if you want to ascend, go to the Crystal Desert.

Heelz · Jan 17, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I feel that the 15 attribute quests should have been more meaningful for Factions and Nightfall. In Prophecies, they were so epic. I remember praying that I wouldn't get ambushed by a sand wurm while exploring the desert for my points. Then, in the Shiverpeaks, you have to slay a demon after fighting hordes of Stone Summit. Not to mention, you actually had to walk a bit and zone through a few explorable areas before getting there. Those 30 attribute points are well earned in Tyria.

What did we get in Factions? You help some dude find his gf. The Zunraa quest was kind of meaningful, though.
In Nightfall, you pretty much get them automatically while following the story.

Commander Ryker · Jan 17, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal Kronik

Attribute Refund Points, ah...the good ol' days.

OMG, remember what a pain in the ass that was? You had to really have a good reason to change your attributes. And if you didn't have enough points, you were stuck. I was so glad when they finally changed that. Maybe that was the first time anet listened to us?

KANE OG · Jan 18, 2007, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Yeah, when I was raising my Warrior, it was "across the desert and back"..... uphill! Both ways! Man, what a great post! Thanks for making my day.

strcpy · Jan 18, 2007, 08:32 AM // 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commander Ryker

OMG, remember what a pain in the ass that was? You had to really have a good reason to change your attributes. And if you didn't have enough points, you were stuck. I was so glad when they finally changed that. Maybe that was the first time anet listened to us?

However, if you used a fairly balanced build that would work pretty much everywhere (thus you didn't need the points) you could change attributes *anywhere*. I know I completed a few missions at a fairly early level by letting the hench tank while I (temporarily) maxed a damage attribute to kill the mob. Of course, you better have enough refund points to change back

. It also made PvP characters much more desirable as they could be rebuilt all they wanted. I do prefer the current system, especially with build templates.

Ahh, prophecies still has the "grander" feel to the story line simply because of the slow build up to the end. You go from nobody to savior of the world. For most of Nightfall you are "The Hero" and everyone knows it. Not bad - I find Nightfall to be a close second to Prophecies in long term playability - but I would still prefer a little slower build up to level 20 and being "The Hero".

I still remember the first time I ascended, there is no real point in the other games that this occurs. Not only was it hard to do the first time, but even now the story really changes there. Closer to the Stars was just a waypoint on the map. Nightfall has the entry into the Real of Torment to somewhat feel that way, the cinematics to some of those missions were every bit as good as ascension. But since ascension also meant the last 15 point quest and changing professions it felt "grander".

Ah well, I like both Prophecies and Nightfall quite a bit. Six of one, half a dozen in the other.

sevendash · Jan 20, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

My Elonian Wintersday Survivor ascended in Tyria for the 50k xp. That and I started out playing Factions, so I really can't relate to you at all.

Maxiemonster · Jan 20, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taala

Challenges? Prophecies felt like a dragged on tutorial until Crystal Desert, even on my first time through the game. It was just so damn easy.

I totally agree. I never had much problems in Prophecies. Like everyone, I had a hard time with THK the first time, and the fire island took me longer then it should've, but it definitly wasn't a challenge all the way. I'm already glad that Factions and Elona both gave us more challenge then the previous chapter, even though they're a stand alone game as well.

Don Crossifixio · Jan 20, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Nightfall was too bloody easy. I'm a necro by trade and I ended up casting SS on the mob, ALT+TAB to "youtube" while koss and his gang did their thing.

While back in Prophecies, the game had me glued to the screen start to finish.

Faction managed to make PVE abit challenging with sins that target casters.

The feeling of achievement back in Prophecies never came again. my party killed a "god" abadon and its not even as hard as the dragon "glint" after ascension.

wetsparks · Jan 21, 2007, 03:39 AM // 03:39

In factions you needed to become closer to the stars to see shiro and some of his minions. i dont remember to much about ascending in prophecies but i think it has to do with being able to kill the mursaat. and then nightfall there was no ascending type thing and no reason to, your just a person going for a walk across elona that kills a god at the end.

CyberMesh0 · Jan 21, 2007, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Oh, you just kill a god at the end. I see. I understand the whole thing about ascension being in the crystal desert according to the lore, but there still should be some kind of significant test or mission that you need to do. For the entirety of Nightfall you're labeled as a Hero but you don't ever have to really do anything difficult to attain that rank. All you have to do is start the game.

vegel · Jan 22, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Back in Proph I was dying to ascend, and the "Desert" is THE place to be...
But yea, ascending back then was so much fun and that 30 points are hard earned. Greats posts

What I wanted to add is that I think NF too need some kind of "Ascend" equivalent, eg like taking a quest before gaining a sunspear rank, not just getting ranks like level/exp

But since they had toned down the "Ascend" aspect so much, it isn't likely they would push up the standard again. Just like the EXP gaining curve, Faction level much faster than proph, NF is about the same. Both of these could give you enough exp level 20 very soon after you left "noob" island. Back in Proph days a quest give you what... 500exp?

lennymon · Jan 22, 2007, 09:31 PM // 21:31

The only issue I've noticed with the easier ascending/leveling/attributes in Factions and Nightfall are that when forming pugs of level 20 players in PVE you have even LESS assurance of any competence or player skill or decent builds. Sure its more difficult in Prophecies and yes we earned it back then, but do you who have earned it that way really want to go through all that (or something equivalently involved) every time? I know I don't. I think of it like titles, meaningless on display but the harder it was earned the more *I* appreciate it.