Curse

Meo Yeong · Jan 24, 2007, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Note: This is my opinion!!!!

DOA is a challenge for the different missions. Many would probabaly agree that gloom is a pain or just that the effort and time put in is alot. I guess this is to be expected of a ELITE mission area. However I think some things need to be changed to the final quest portion for Ebony Citadel when you go kill that ape of a guy Mallyx.

1. First off they need a Lightbringer point giving guy since now because of the update you will be in there for hours trying over and over and over and over. We might as well get something out of it.

2. Next point is that it is extremely hard. I have sat there for hours in groups trying to beat it since the fix and to no avail. I have heard a few groups have made it but I am guessing these are elite guild groups that play together day in day out. Some of use do not have this so feel that this mission needs to be dumbed down a bit so that the average joe pug player also gets a shot. Especially since all the time we put into the other 4 which in itself is an accomplishment.

3. Next I think they need to change the mission entrance ability so that everyone can go in but they cant get reward unless they have the other 4 completed. Reason I state this is only so many people are at Citadel at a time and makes getting a group near impossible. I already sat there for a day looking to no avail while people I know that I did the others are in other groups. Even Some I helped to get through other parts even though Ii didn't need them can only go thru this once and start over again thus they cant help me get thru and such. Anyways they need to change this so people can get groups instead of sittin around for days.

4. Finally. What is anet thinking when they make these elite missions. All we get is cookie cutter builds where for example in DOA you have to be a necro, monk, ele or tank. Some dervishes and some ranger may get a group, rits, mesmers, paragons and assasins dont have a chance to get thru. Paragons are introduced along with dervishes in Nightfall and yet they cant even get a group in the elite area. Anyways they need to balance these elite areas.

Neven15 · Jan 24, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

lol there already is a lightbringer giving guy

FatherofGod · Jan 24, 2007, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Yeh they could improve some of the rit/assasin/paragon/mesmer skills for doa, reason that there are no builds for these professions, even dervish as well, is because nobody is really familiar with any of these characters builds so they only bother with prophecies characters, but in a way it does suck they nerfed Mallyx but without the nerf it was basically the easiest mission. I'd have to say foundry would be harder than gloom but gloom is the next hardest just because of the cave. The mallyx reaver and edge definitely won't be dropping in price as it has been, a spike on the price might even start to happen

Meo Yeong · Jan 24, 2007, 09:44 PM // 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neven15

lol there already is a lightbringer giving guy

Not for Ebony Citadel there is not, just a priest you move near to to start quest.

Abyss1 · Jan 24, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

OK so more a general DoA observation.

Most pugs are doomed many will get far some even might make it to the end but finishing is rare......
My experience is that any pug wipes 2 to 3 times on the first few mobs just because people don't know each other. Most of ythe time you are actually educating people on what to do where and stand which takes on average per room 30 minutes. Now I am truelly not someone to say you are to dumb *kick* but I know many many people that will do that. In this by now it has become such that just getting a group is almost as hard as the mission it self. I know quit a few people now that do Doa so it helps but it still takes near to 2 hrs to get a group during the week, and you aren't sure you will get through the first quest.

As for the build well a Dervish can replace a warrior with almost identical skills and using all the dervish armor buffs. Rangers make just as good BiP's as Necro's and seen the odd Rit go in to probably also in a support role along the lines of a prot monk. Paragon's I have never seen getting any groups same with mesmers, assassins are in a class of their own on this one as that is still a very underplayed class and you rarellly see any down there to even know if they would be effective.

1 other thing keeping people away I think is the rewards. on a average foundry run where we do not kill the fury in the end(just because we don't make it) you come out with ~500gold and maybe 1k in drops and about 3 to 4 gems across the whole group having earned up to about 750 lightbringer point(killed roughly 375 enemies) I get better revenue on regular quests on the starter islands (exaggerated I know but not to much

).

An other thing playing up is time to spend, most groups just to get to the end of one area will spend roughly 7 hours. I hear people say 6 to 7 hrs for all 5 areas thoose I would love to join and see how they pull that off. But the most common question before going in after "what's you skill bar" is "do you have the time".

Ok so maybe I went a little off topic but I think this covers all things in there that many people have trouble with to one end or n other. I would like to add that I do not think the mobs are over powered or anything however bringing damage down a little will make it more class friendly I think giving other classes an opperunaty to enter. Also maybe just growing the group size will cut down on time spend and also open up for more classes.

One thing I would like to ask/say/comment.....why is it always the bonder that looses connection at the end ?

(haven't actually seen this question anywhere and it was a topic of debate in DoA the other day)

Lady Ana Stacia · Jan 24, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

I would have to agree with everything that has been mentioned here.

Where The Deep and Urgoz was concerned the #1 problem was the length of time it took to complete the missions. Not so much a problem in the deep but Urgoz was horrendous and those Elites had 12 man teams.

After spending the last several weeks really diving into DoA and trying to finish just 1 of the quests/missions frustration abounds! Especially getting to the prisoners in the Foundry several times and having the bonder disco ever fricking time!

Why when time it took was such a problem in Factions did they create even longer Elites with smaller party size? Believe me I have no problems with mobs, level, damage etc just the sheer time investment it takes to maybe accomplish 1 of the quests!

If the party size was 10 even it would at least cut down the time slightly and might just give more teams a chance!

Now if your one of the one's who says they can all be completed in 5-6 hrs please sign me up would love to see it in action!

Meo Yeong · Jan 24, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

The best I have for time on these missions with a decent group is:

Foundry- 4 hours
stygian -2 1/2 hours
gloom -2 hours
city - 2 hours
ebony citadel - 30 minutes pre bug fix - unknown time for after bug fix :P

realize that in this thread I have heard the word nerf when in actual fact it was a bug fix.

Lady Ana Stacia · Jan 25, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

*dreams of those kinds of times*

Well if your ever looking for company completeing the quests again let us know!

SirErnieMacGloop · Jan 25, 2007, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Finding a group.....
Guildies, allies, friends list (or good friends with someone who does

)

It took several weeks for us to even complete the 4 areas, with 6-8hrs for a single area. Together we worked out a good build (we're flexible too) and got very used to working with each other, learning the patrol patterns, aggro range etc.

Times:
City: :45 average 1:00
Veil: 2:30 average 3:00
Gloom: :45 average 1:00
Foundry: 2:30 average 3:00

Mallyx: 1:00 average 1:30 (post patch)

Best time for all 4: 6:30 (thats 1 margonite, 2 stygian, 3 torment, 4 titan gems and a green from Mallyx)

It took us alot of time and effort to be able to do these this fast, and it has payed off big.
In this area 1 mistake can equal party wipe (no duh everyone says), we tend to only go with others that we have already played with in the past. Alot being very strong PvP players (r9+).

We have issues getting together groups too.
One of the problems the regular groups have is players falling asleep at the keyboard during a 4 run

<whistles innocently>

Its definately well worth the effort, and once the gold making potential goes down a little you will find more and more people posting walkthroughs, full build and detailed directions on how to complete these this fast.

Keep trying, DoA doesn't need to be made easier, everyone who is having trouble needs to go through the same learning process we did, or wait for the guides.

The Four Horseman wasn't beat in a day and this wasn't either.

Spadas Datum · Jan 25, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Try to find a guild that does DoA or add all those that you played with successfully in DoA. Keep trying at it. It's not easy, but after each successful runs, you will become more familiar with the zone and sooner or later, it will be easier and easier.

Atm, our guild average one 4 areas run about every other day, with 2 areas run being a daily thing. But intially, there were a lot of difficulties. Now, after doing it so much, the runs become much easier with everyone being experienced. My personal best 4 area run is 5 hours 25 minutes. Guildies did it in 5 hours 7 minutes last night and I had to sleep early for work,

. Goal is to achieve it under 5 hours

.

The point is, it's a hard mission that requires patience to learn. The more you do it, the better you will get at it.

Abyss1 · Jan 25, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Well the current problem is just that there are no groups forming. on average there will be 1 group forming every 1.5 to 2 hrs(this is in the European districts) and well there is a 95% chance it is for foundry , gloom is next then veil and city group I have only seen form 1 in 3 days time....sure I am not constantly there.

As far as making money of of it it takes almost a whole day o just buy 10 titan gems at roughly 75k (top price is 80k now)a piece so that might say something about the European success rate.

In all actuality I do think DoA is ok to do (no experience with city yet and no success on gloom), the biggest problem is just not being able to find any reliable groups consitantly. And when we do get one it is usually only for one run and like I said never made it up to this point.

Ok and last observation. Everyone keeps talking about the AI update etc having Ele'ed and Tanked it I can say the general behaviour has not changed since factions agro has never been easy to hold and if the casters move in to quick you will loose some that will go around you to fast, correct me if I'm wrong but the tank body blocks and takes as much of the agro as possible but i have seen many ,if not most times, that there are always 2 or 3 enemies that just move around and stand behind the block(priority targets). If the ele's hit thoose first it really doesn't matter. atleast in gloom , veil and foundry these "loose" enemies can be taken out fast by the ele's.

Oh and then there is this the average run takes longer due to the fact that it is next to impossible to find an all experienced group so you are always teaching someone something which costs time.

Meo Yeong · Jan 25, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

My concern isnt really with the first 4 quests. Its the final quest EBONY CITADEL which I made this topic about.

Abyss1 · Jan 25, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

I know , but your topic relates to all areas I think you concerns aswell as it is an all around DoA problem.

malevolence · Jan 25, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

TRUE, I finished all 4 quests , but I cannot find a dam team for mallyx

Gunzwei · Jan 25, 2007, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirErnieMacGloop

....
Its definately well worth the effort, and once the gold making potential goes down a little you will find more and more people posting walkthroughs, full build and detailed directions on how to complete these this fast.

Keep trying, DoA doesn't need to be made easier, everyone who is having trouble needs to go through the same learning process we did, or wait for the guides.

The Four Horseman wasn't beat in a day and this wasn't either.

Couldn't agree more. Once the gold making potential dies down a lot of guides and builds will start getting posted for both farming and questing.

Right now the nerf bat feels awfully nearby to DoA, so I'll be waiting to post any of our builds =).

halbatross · Jan 26, 2007, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abyss1

Well the current problem is just that there are no groups forming. on average there will be 1 group forming every 1.5 to 2 hrs(this is in the European districts) and well there is a 95% chance it is for foundry , gloom is next then veil and city group I have only seen form 1 in 3 days time....sure I am not constantly there.

The obvious solution would be to use the international districts. There is no reason to be in local districts when all players online can only fill 1-2 districts.

Also there is not much point doing this with pugs. People use the cookie-cutter builds which might work for some areas if you are in a good pug, but are not ideal for all 4 of them.

Die and Serve Me · Jan 26, 2007, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Background on my character:

Ranger - Rank 3 (HA is a whole other issue...) - KOABD +1 - every frickin elite skill - LB 6.

Myself: besides the ranger; have lvl 20 warrior, monk, necro and had an ele & sin at lvl 20. I do understand a bit about other characters. However, I learn more every day and just consider myself an average player.

Been at DOA for 2 frustrating weeks, only been able to get on 3 teams AND those were all ranger trap groups for veil and, those have not made it through. People leave; some folks come unprepared; etc...

I have read the DOA info posted on here and wiki; understand the mission is tough BUT to read some peoples rather 'glib' comments about putting in our time and earning our lumps; hey, I would love to be able to do that -- just cannot get on a group.

I guess this is ANETs way of paying back us rangers for Tombs BP teams!!

This mission is - in my view - different from the other elites in one important way -- to get all our heros (one of the key aspects of Nightfall play) ANET has set it up so we have to do DOA. Of course, without getting on a team AND succeeding, that is going to be impossible.

Anyway, my suggestion: put hench in DOA and let those of us that want to at least have the option of using heros/hench to at least try. Sure we would die but would rather do that as just stand around for an hour -- two weeks!! --and then leave without getting to even try. And, who knows, those with the patience, stubborness and alot of luck, just might actually complete a mission or two AND get some experience.

SirErnieMacGloop · Jan 26, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I'm sorry if I came accross glib, didn't mean to.

Basically if I didn't have friends/guildies/alliance members who all wanted to do this I'd be in the same spot as you. When DoA came out those of us wishing to try (and fail many, many times

) banded together with extended friends and learned the area.

Henchies won't get you far in there either, if you want to try it just find any one friend/guildy/alliance member/ or anyone and grab your heroes and go.

Just a hint if you want to get into a group as a ranger: go with eoe,symbiosis and go necro secondary with BR and maybe SS. With a trapper group it takes upwards of 6+ hours just to complete one area if you are lucky (not advised).

It takes us from 1 to 4 hours to get a group together for these missions, so nothing different from what you are experiencing. The difference is we are pulling a group together rather than relying on someone else to do it. Its very rare that we go outside our friends to get a pick-up, but it does happen.

Don't get me wrong I am not an elitist or anything of the sort, but when it comes down to the Foundry after doing all 3 other areas in the same run, would you trust someone you don't know not to make a mistake and cost you 4 titan gems? Once the price comes down everyone will be less picky on who they take because so much less will be at stake.

BTW there is some farming that can be done solo or with a couple of heroes, things that you can do alone without a group.

malevolence · Jan 26, 2007, 08:19 AM // 08:19

I am not as lucky as those that have a PvE guild, mine is only PvP. And I am sure that I am the only pvp/pve member in my guild

but I have found some people in the english districts to make the quest together, is the only way to do it. Btw the dual farming in foundry is just the first room

so the drop rate is very low.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 28, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Domain of Anguish? Sounds cool! Let's go try it!

Wow! We get a whole 8 people on our team! That's neat!

Sweet the enemies do double damage!

They also have over 600 Health! Awesome!

The mobs come in groups of 50! Rock on!

Hey, they are ignoring our tank! Man that's cool!

One E-Surge brought out entire party down 1/4 health! That's neato!

The list continues. . .

They should stack things a little more in favor of the monsters. I don't think they have covered all the bases yet. It'd be really fun if they put, say, different, really tough environmental effects on the groups, further limiting functionality. Oh, wait...

Seriously, the odds of finding a coherent group to beat even the first three mobs of any area is a longshot. I don't mind the mission taking 4 hours, but I at least want intelligent players. The shear stacking of favor in these areas chokes down the limited pool of decent players into a handful, who then struggle to reach out and find other decent players in a sea of braindead twelve year olds. It's frustrating as hell.

Not to mention the fact that the only successful builds are gimmicks. No wonder every ele is a PvE moron; they all run Searing which only requires the functionality of two buttons on the keyboard. Wammos are apparently figuring out they can get into parties if they switch to ele secondaries because not a friggin warrior i've come across yet can block effectively, excluding those areas in the levels where blocking is average at best. Monks with 5 second reaction times are carrying skills like Protective Spirit. They'd be better off packing 8 resurrects because that's all they are going to be doing. God forbid there should be a BiP I party with that doesn't run with anything less than 6 thousand friggin' health.

Math Equation for DoA:

Total Guild Wars Players / Level 28 Monsters with Double Damage in Large Groups / Need for Gimmick Builds to Win / Moron Gimmick Build Runners = Coherent Players

Coherent Players / Time it takes to find 7 other coherent players = Success Rate of DoA + A LOT of waisted time

/endrant

Next elite area should focus on strong enemy bars, not one's like the Margonite Anur Ki or Anur Tuks. Double damage is stupid, imbalanced, and a severe party type limiter. I feel sorry for those people who don't run an Ele, Warrior, Necro, or Monk, because they have to now drag a different character through a week of exhausted storyline just to fit in, but that's a different thread.

All in all, DoA fails. It should be stuck in the Foundry of Failed Creations. It's like that essay paper I wrote the night before it was due...