Curse

meat shield · Feb 25, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

Just to make it clear, these are the areas I don't believe this build would be capable of taking out:
1) The first group in City
2) The "Door Group" in City
3) The final "bosses" groups in City
4) The Stygian Lords (not Underlords) <---DONE!!(yay)
5) The first group in Gloom
6) The Cave in Gloom
7) Rooms 1, 2, 3, and 4 in Foundry

i agree, the gloom efect is real nasty for my build, we managed to kill the 1st stygian lord(the monk), but then i had to leave, we knewl noting about the popups yetand we got almost killed by the popup just before the boss, we killed the boss but i had to go

margonites(foundry) are less resilent than hungers and such, hungers drop in 8 barages, and margonite in 5,6 or 7, it is posible that we can take 7 baragers in foundry and spike em to dead in one hit(it will be a pain geting such a group togeter)

the main trouble about this build is that you are left whit one or two enamies that you can hardly kill, we got almost killed by 2 fiends some times, we need a blind(lvl 2 spirit of shadowsong?)

i changed my build a bit , i found out http://gwshack.us/66e6d works beter, or 3 rangers cus we never tried whit 2/2

tknorris · Feb 26, 2007, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

i agree, the gloom efect is real nasty for my build, we managed to kill the 1st stygian lord(the monk), but then i had to leave, we knewl noting about the popups yetand we got almost killed by the popup just before the boss, we killed the boss but i had to go

If you've gotten that far in Stygian, then you should be able to complete it. The next question is how long does it take? For an organized team, Stygian usually takes about 1-1.5 hours. I suspect if you don't have a lot of DOA experience it'll be a while before you can get to a point where you are racing for time, but it would be interesting to compare an organized SF team time with your build's time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

margonites(foundry) are less resilent than hungers and such, hungers drop in 8 barages, and margonite in 5,6 or 7, it is posible that we can take 7 baragers in foundry and spike em to dead in one hit(it will be a pain geting such a group togeter)

Actually, Titans are much more frequent in Foundry than Margonites. City is where you'll encounter most of the Margonites in DOA. The challenge I think you'll have in Foundry is that it's nearly impossible to fight the mobs in the first four rooms while still in the room with the mobs. That's why most teams hop back through the gate once it closes behind them. This is where the problem comes in because your arrows won't go through the gate. Trying to fight mobs in the same room they popup in is very difficult and prone to team wiping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

the main trouble about this build is that you are left whit one or two enamies that you can hardly kill, we got almost killed by 2 fiends some times, we need a blind(lvl 2 spirit of shadowsong?)

Here's an interesting idea. Perhaps you could combine your Barrager's with 2 SF Eles. The SF Eles would help alot in taking out those 1 or 2 stragglers left.

meat shield · Feb 26, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

If you've gotten that far in Stygian, then you should be able to complete it. The next question is how long does it take? For an organized team, Stygian usually takes about 1-1.5 hours. I suspect if you don't have a lot of DOA experience it'll be a while before you can get to a point where you are racing for time, but it would be interesting to compare an organized SF team time with your build's time.

it took us aroundn 2 hours to get to the first lord, we lost alot of time whit the popup group right at the start of the 2nd quist, and alot of time sweeping the path to the 1st lord

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

Here's an interesting idea. Perhaps you could combine your Barrager's with 2 SF Eles. The SF Eles would help alot in taking out those 1 or 2 stragglers left.

true, but the main power of this build is to take down a foull group in 2 seconds, the one that survives is often a single fiend and not melee monsters(actualy, we never tried luring the melee monksters to one ranged monster)
whit only 2 baragers we are able to dead ~55% dmg in 2 seconds but then we have to wait 5 seconds before doing splinter again, i will give it a trie whit 2 splinter and 2 SF

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

The challenge I think you'll have in Foundry is that it's nearly impossible to fight the mobs in the first four rooms while still in the room with the mobs. That's why most teams hop back through the gate once it closes behind them. This is where the problem comes in because your arrows won't go through the gate. Trying to fight mobs in the same room they popup in is very difficult and prone to team wiping.

i tested someting, and the first group in the foundry ncan be spiked down whit 7 baragers(or 6) maybe we can do this whit other groups aswell
i was able to spike a good ~15% hp of them and ran away whitout speed boost and thet didnt follow me, of course, thay have heals, but heals wont help vs spiking and the primary heal spell of the margonites is easly interuptable
maybe it workt, but only in the start, cus i do not know how to kill groups that do NOT regroup over time

tknorris · Feb 26, 2007, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

true, but the main power of this build is to take down a foull group in 2 seconds, the one that survives is often a single fiend and not melee monsters(actualy, we never tried luring the melee monksters to one ranged monster)
whit only 2 baragers we are able to dead ~55% dmg in 2 seconds but then we have to wait 5 seconds before doing splinter again, i will give it a trie whit 2 splinter and 2 SF

Perhaps replace only one barrager then with an air spiker. He would be more effective against just 1 or 2 mobs than an SF ele would anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

i tested someting, and the first group in the foundry ncan be spiked down whit 7 baragers(or 6) maybe we can do this whit other groups aswell
i was able to spike a good ~15% hp of them and ran away whitout speed boost and thet didnt follow me, of course, thay have heals, but heals wont help vs spiking and the primary heal spell of the margonites is easly interuptable
maybe it workt, but only in the start, cus i do not know how to kill groups that do NOT regroup over time

The problem isn't that you'll be able to do enough damage to take them out. The problem is that the rooms are VERY dangerous to stay in because you have nowhere to run when things go badly because the gate closes behind you once you enter. For that reason, teams usually send at least one player back out the gate by killing a pet just outside the gate, then when it closes Necrotic Traversaling to the dead pet. Frequently the team will wipe except for that one person. That person will then rebirth the rest of the team back through the gate and from that point forward they'll nuke from behind the gate, which you can't do because you need LoS. You will therefore be stuck in the room with the mobs that popup, and be continuously mobbed by the groups in the room.

meat shield · Feb 26, 2007, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

Perhaps replace only one barrager then with an air spiker. He would be more effective against just 1 or 2 mobs than an SF ele would anyway.

true annyway, but enamies FLEE afther the 2nd barage, and we need atleast 7 hits for a pack to drop, what if i make a ritu look like:
barage, splinter, bloodsong,pain,painfull bond,shadowsong, flesh of my flesh/ draw spirit/spirit burn/brutal weapon???, and completely drop wilderness+marks, 3spirits+paifull make around 70 dps on the avrage enamie

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

The problem isn't that you'll be able to do enough damage to take them out. The problem is that the rooms are VERY dangerous to stay in because you have nowhere to run when things go badly because the gate closes behind you once you enter. For that reason, teams usually send at least one player back out the gate by killing a pet just outside the gate, then when it closes Necrotic Traversaling to the dead pet. Frequently the team will wipe except for that one person. That person will then rebirth the rest of the team back through the gate and from that point forward they'll nuke from behind the gate, which you can't do because you need LoS. You will therefore be stuck in the room with the mobs that popup, and be continuously mobbed by the groups in the room.

true

tknorris · Feb 26, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

true annyway, but enamies FLEE afther the 2nd barage, and we need atleast 7 hits for a pack to drop, what if i make a ritu look like:
barage, splinter, bloodsong,pain,painfull bond,shadowsong, flesh of my flesh/ draw spirit/spirit burn/brutal weapon???, and completely drop wilderness+marks, 3spirits+paifull make around 70 dps on the avrage enamie

Why not have the Rangers go R/E (Air) or perhaps even better, E/R (with attributes Air=12+3+1,Marks=9,Energy=9+1), and have the Rts put Splinter on the rangers and then themselves before the barrage(s)? Splinter lasts a really long time anyway and the 5 second recharge would allow it to be cast on everyone while the tank is collecting aggro. It might be better than way anyway because then all the Splinters would be based off the Rt's higher channeling attribute. Then when you only have a couple of mobs left, the Rangers could use the air spikes to take them out.

I'm still skeptical though that this build will work anywhere but Stygian. I just see too many insurmountable issues in City, Gloom, and Foundry. However, there's nothing wrong with a build that only works in one of the areas.

meat shield · Feb 27, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

Why not have the Rangers go R/E (Air) or perhaps even better, E/R (with attributes Air=12+3+1,Marks=9,Energy=9+1), and have the Rts put Splinter on the rangers and then themselves before the barrage(s)? Splinter lasts a really long time anyway and the 5 second recharge would allow it to be cast on everyone while the tank is collecting aggro. It might be better than way anyway because then all the Splinters would be based off the Rt's higher channeling attribute. Then when you only have a couple of mobs left, the Rangers could use the air spikes to take them out.

we often precast barage and then use barrage>splinter>barage verry fast
i dont know if it works whit 7 barages(or less?) instand of one,
lets do dmg callucation
the rit does 53 dmg and trigers 5 times in a group of 6
5*6*53-(5*53(splinter dont trigers on the foe it hits)=1425 dmg(no lightbringer)
rangers does 41 dmg and trigers 4 times, the dmg will be
4*6*41-(4*41)=900 dmg
as i have mostly 1 rt and 3 rangers who aln fire barage, the total dmg (6 targets) will be
(1425*2)+(900*6)=2850+5400 dmg= 8250
the dmg per enamie is then 8250/6=1357

if i take 1 rt, and 3 E/R, the dmg is as follow:
e/r does same dmg as rt/r so: 1425 dmg, only once
(3*1425)+(1425*2)=7125, 1187 per enamie
this suprises me

1357-1187=170 dmg diference/unit
170 dmg is not that much(im not calutating LB, in wich chhase it would be ~230 difference)
to my experimence in solo farming hungers, i needed 5 barages to kill them(hungers, and i was often left whit one hunger) and that was when they NEVER hit me(no life steal skills)
meaningn it wont work(in theory)
i test a round solo in stygian and count how many times i need to hit them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tknorris

I'm still skeptical though that this build will work anywhere but Stygian. I just see too many insurmountable issues in City, Gloom, and Foundry. However, there's nothing wrong with a build that only works in one of the areas.

true, the effect in gloom kills us, repressive enrgy+barage is your worst enamie, you cant even fire 2 barages, and the foundry is too hard..lol

tknorris · Feb 27, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

we often precast barage and then use barrage>splinter>barage verry fast
i dont know if it works whit 7 barages(or less?) instand of one,
lets do dmg callucation
the rit does 53 dmg and trigers 5 times in a group of 6
5*6*53-(5*53(splinter dont trigers on the foe it hits)=1425 dmg(no lightbringer)
rangers does 41 dmg and trigers 4 times, the dmg will be
4*6*41-(4*41)=900 dmg
as i have mostly 1 rt and 3 rangers who aln fire barage, the total dmg (6 targets) will be
(1425*2)+(900*6)=2850+5400 dmg= 8250
the dmg per enamie is then 8250/6=1357

if i take 1 rt, and 3 E/R, the dmg is as follow:
e/r does same dmg as rt/r so: 1425 dmg, only once
(3*1425)+(1425*2)=7125, 1187 per enamie
this suprises me

1357-1187=170 dmg diference/unit
170 dmg is not that much(im not calutating LB, in wich chhase it would be ~230 difference)
to my experimence in solo farming hungers, i needed 5 barages to kill them(hungers, and i was often left whit one hunger) and that was when they NEVER hit me(no life steal skills)
meaningn it wont work(in theory)
i test a round solo in stygian and count how many times i need to hit them.

I think you misunderstood what I was suggesting. Both the Rts and the Rangers would continue to all barrage, but the Rts would precast Splinter on the Rangers, and then themselves. Your overall damage should go up, not down since the Rangers Splinter will be based on the Rt's Splinter rather than their own. Also, I was thinking 2 Rts and 2 E/Rs, one Rt would cast on one ele and then himself, and the other Rt would cast on the other Ele and then himself. So, all barrages would be the 1425 number, not the 900 and it would still be the same number of attacks. It would then be 10 seconds (from the last cast of Splinter) before you could Barrage again.

meat shield · Feb 27, 2007, 03:51 PM // 15:51

i understand, but then you will lose the huge speed on this build, wich is bad
and in the ~15 houres i was in the town, i saw exaly 2 ritualsits, and one was there for the first time and the other sucked pretty much...
getting 2 ritus is near imposible

whit 3 spirits, i deal almost more dmg than an aire spiker can do, but then while i arent even near the foes, and whitout having to worry about enchantements and LoS

today, i almost made it. we got to dreadspawn maw but we got killed there due to unluckey agro. and i cen tell you we got there pretty fast.
atleast, we made the 1st quist whinin ~35 mins

once we got the 2nd quist it was going alot splower sice iot was my 1st time there, and we didnt knew all popers

i just hit my LB rank 4

, 68 dmg per splinter wooo
i want LB 5 :'(

Evilsod · Feb 27, 2007, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Erm... i was messing around with this a couple of weeks ago. A 4 man team in Stygian Veil w/ 3 Rangers 1 Ritualist, we cleared the majority of the first quest. Gave up due to DP and the need to be elsewhere while attempting the Stygian Underlord (Golem).

All it needs is a proper tank and you probably just stand there for a few minutes and wipe out every single wave that came forward. Proper grouping up of the other mobs and you probably walk the first quest. Single foes were a problem... but we were running a very dodgy build with spirit walls so lacked a variety of skills. A Necromancer could easily be set up to kill single foes and the Rit can also bring Nightmare Weapon.

Think my Splinter hit for 74 damage at R8 Lightbringer, might be wrong, its been a while since i did it. With the Mark of Pain i threw on 1 of them it works out at about 22000 damage split between 18 Stygians (Plus any EoE damage), if they were grouped properly round a tank it would lead to instant wipeout. Would have to clear the Shadows first though, make things easier.

lennymon · Feb 27, 2007, 05:03 PM // 17:03

well meat shield, I've got a rit and a ranger there, gimme a holler if you want a go at it. Ive playd through the area, but as a monkie.

meat shield · Feb 27, 2007, 08:41 PM // 20:41

every day this week, 11 <---morning, pm, am???? lol gmt, european english dis 1

(or int. dis....)