Curse

Kinky Elf · Nov 04, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Finding a good group for Tomb runs has been a little difficult lately so I thought I'd post my thoughts on this run. Group should have 5 B/P rangers with pets, bows interupts, degen, barrage and Faverable Winds or Winnowing...

My R/Mo looks like...

Beast Mastery 1
Expertise 7
Wilderness Survival 11
Marksmanship 16

Savage Shot, Apply Posion, Barrage, Troll Unguent, Comfort Animal, Charm Animal, Winnowing, Rebirth

One of the Rangers should be the puller and everyone else stay back... I can't stress this enough... Stay back... and the puller really shouldn't be a primary spirit provider... Pullers have other things to worry about other than making sure a spirit is up...

Rangers should not bring traps or any other spirit besides Winnowing or Favorable Winds... The only exception might be the puller with a trap but its not really needed and makes the run take longer.

A Necro Minion Master is needed... Flesh Golem is great if you have Factions...

My N/Mo looks like...

Death Magic 16
Soul Reaping 11
Healing Prayers 8

Deadly Swam, Bone Horror, Bone Fiend, Flesh Golem, Blood of the Master, Verata's Sacrifice, Healing Breeze and Rebirth

I try and keep Flesh Golem and Bone Fiends up and only spawn Bone Horrors to quickly get my minion count to 10... Blood of the Master keeps the minions alive and Healing Breeze keeps me alive... Verata's Sacrifice for long hauls...

An Orders Necro is needed...

My N/Mo looks like...

Blood Magic 16
Soul Reaping 11
Healing Prayers 8

Life Siphon, Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, Blood Ritual, Blood Renewal, Mending, Healing Breeze, Rebirth

I try and keep Order of the Vampire up and use Order of Pain when everyone is healthy... Blood Ritual for the Monk and MM often... Blood Renewal for me... Mending and Healing breeze for the MM and myself... Life Siphon for the worms....

A Monk is needed...

My Mo/Me looks like... (New to Monking so there may be improvements)

Healing Prayers 16
Protection Prayers 4
Divine Favor 14

Dwayna's Kiss, Healing Seed, Word of Healing, Healing Breeze, Heal Party, Extinguish, Mending, Rebirth...

Asuming everyone stays back and lets the puller do their job then I just need to watch after the necros even though they can heal themselvse pretty well and the puller... Never heal pets and take care of anyone who happens to get into a bit of trouble...

Alrighty then... MM sets up camp a location for the puller to being monsters staying out of those dang meteor showers... Puller brings monsters to minions... Rangers behind the minions pawn monsters... Monk and Orders keeps team happy... Try and interupt the Meteor Shower and Worm Siege... Don't go for Chest until everything is dead around it... and if you not the puller stay back....

Hope you find this helpful...

Make love not war,
Elf

Mesmer in Need · Nov 04, 2006, 06:51 AM // 06:51

i went into this with a standard woh monk, with a b/p group. works fine, and the necros are nice and use heal party. the monks job is pretty easy. but i think they need an fc nuker to speed up the killing.

yarddog · Nov 16, 2006, 10:38 AM // 10:38

first of a well informed and well seasoned b/p group can cut through the tombs in about an hour, no nuker is needed. as long as the MM makes minions and the rangers can res their pets in battle the run is a breeze. elf has made a real easy guide and it should be followed, it pretty much explains the simplicity of the tombs with a seasoned group. lately tho the groups there have been horrid and i hope more people read this thread and take head, i miss going there.

Holdyouclose · Nov 17, 2006, 09:48 AM // 09:48

I love tombs UW - but 3 lat times I wnt there - three was no people?!?!?! 5 people was in there last time

I'm on euro servers, and usually the eng.distr. 1 is crowded

Gonzo · Nov 17, 2006, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Lightbringer title + Ligthbringers gaze is probably a very nice addition to B/P groups. Haven't tested if it works on the enemies in there.

Saborath Gilgalad · Nov 17, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Similar to what I use to run but I'd change the necro bars.

MM:
Deadly Swam, Bone Horror, Death Nova, Flesh Golem, Blood of the Master, Verata's Sacrifice, Heal Area and Rebirth

Fiends are usless here seeing as they drag aggro and can cause your group to die. Heal Area is much more usefully to keep your minions alive, compared to the uses of healing breeze. Death Nova adds more pressure along with the degen you need.

Orders:
Life Siphon, Order of Pain, Order of the Vampire, Blood Ritual, Blood Renewal, Heal Party, Healing Breeze, Rebirth

Mending is pointless because it does more harm then good seeing as they have shatters, and with the constant killing any decent orders necro can cycle OoP OoV and HP forever, not to mention HP takes some pressure of the sole monk. I dont't life siphon since its not really usefull here, I might suggest taking a well of blood instead seeing as you'll have plenty of corpses to go around.

Blackhawk · Nov 17, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saborath Gilgalad

I might suggest taking a well of blood instead seeing as you'll have plenty of corpses to go around.

Not really as if your like me I keep recycling minions as soon and as often as possible for keeping myself and the Orders with a constant flow of energy and a decent meatshield, especially when Meteor Shower normally knocks the crap out of most minions and the last thing I want to see is an Orders putting wells up all over the place stopping the flow of minions and generally weakening the meatshield, thats not his job and will piss most MM's off

Veratas is a waste of a skill slot IMO and you'd be better off putting Death Nova in and especially casting it on the Pets as they're a lot easier to target, I'd also swap Deathly Swarm for Taste Of Death for either a self heal when heal area might not be appropriate or a "bomb trigger" as 105 dmg + Poison is more effective than DS plus a lot of Rangers like the idea of their death meaning something as I'll also Death Nova anybody including myself with low health

.

Order of Undeath + Mark of pain are also good options now provided you can look after the health sacrifice from OoU.

I'm pretty sure Lightbringer will have no effect in Tombs Gonzo.

Also people take note of the ONLY spirits you need as I can't imagine what people some are thinking when they bring Predatory Season and Winter in as PS Really screws things up on the healing front and your not exactly on the fire islands in Tombs

Sofonisba · Nov 17, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kinky Elf

My Mo/Me looks like... (New to Monking so there may be improvements)

Healing Prayers 16
Protection Prayers 4
Divine Favor 14

Dwayna's Kiss, Healing Seed, Word of Healing, Healing Breeze, Heal Party, Extinguish, Mending, Rebirth...

My Mo/Me looks similar, but a tiny tweak. I do not take any enchantments, because most of the secondaries in the group are /Mo and will be stripped by Fingers of Chaos or Chained Soul, or shattered some other way.

Healing 15
DF 14
Insp 3

Mantra of Concentration
Smite Hex
Remove Hex
Word of Healing
Orison of Healing
Heal Other
Heal Party
Rebirth

I take two hex removals for all the Empathy, Diversion, Backfire, etc. No condition removal. The only condition that ever occurs is burning, and that goes away in 3 seconds, usually does not spell the end of a person, nor does it interfere with their attacking.

Mantra for anti-interrupts. It works for me.

As for the puller, as long as we know in advance (and we usually do, going in as guild/alliance group) who is doing the pulling, I'll have their name highlighted ready to catch any spikes with a heal. Usually isn't a problem.

Dreikki · Nov 17, 2006, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Seriously, where do you need apply poison? It's a preparation and barrage deletes all preparations.

Katari · Nov 17, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Rangers should be R/x, where x=Me, A, Rt, P, D. They should have res-sigs, since you do not need 8 copies of rebirth, and a mid-combat res can turn the tide of a battle, preventing situations where you'd need rebirth.

With the rangers not having enchants removed from them when they take hits, the monk can safely take Vig Spirit, which works great on barrage rangers.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozo

Lightbringer title + Ligthbringers gaze is probably a very nice addition to B/P groups. Haven't tested if it works on the enemies in there.

It dosen't.

Sofonisba · Nov 17, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreikki

Seriously, where do you need apply poison? It's a preparation and barrage deletes all preparations.

True, but sometimes one person in our group will bring it to take down the "popup" wurms faster. (Personally I'd never take it, but when someone does, it does work nicely. :P)

Saborath Gilgalad · Nov 17, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackhawk

Not really as if your like me I keep recycling minions as soon and as often as possible for keeping myself and the Orders with a constant flow of energy and a decent meatshield, especially when Meteor Shower normally knocks the crap out of most minions and the last thing I want to see is an Orders putting wells up all over the place stopping the flow of minions and generally weakening the meatshield, thats not his job and will piss most MM's off

I never said to spam it, but instead use it very sparringly. For instance when i did it, id pop up a well on the corpse of a grasp that got through the sheild and then everyone would sit in it for some nice regen. But yes MM's have priority on any corpses.

Xiaxhou of Trinity · Nov 17, 2006, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Crit BP works fine, R/W with watch yourself! for constant +20 works, throwing in a paragon to cause burning looks fun too. Basically, a BP grp is simple, the ranger's only job is to cause as much AoE dmg as possible and HAVE interrupts for worms and whatever else you feel like interrupting. The orders nec shoudln't have mending, they should have heal party (energy managemnt shoudlnt' be needed with all the things dying: minions and monsters) I don't understand why you have bone horrors, they are not good meat shields. They run off wherever the hell they want, fiends are what you want for meatshields. Flesh Golem is nice, and considering that you're just creating meatshields and some extra DPS, taste of death+death nova on golem and even on fiends sometimes is fun. There is no specific build, just know the roles: orders nec is +dmg for rangers, BR for anyone, and heal party+HB for monk support; MM for meatshields; one or two monks depending on how good your grp and monk is (in terms of controlling aggro and the monk having sufficient energy) but with the orders nec all you really need is a good boon prot monk.

Also, I just wanted to make the point that if rangers could add something in to help increase dmg, the run would be quicker (the loot I would say isn't really an hour worth, though you get the exp wtih it for skill points and maybe a green in the end, though the greens dont sell for much)

Rhershy8 · Nov 22, 2006, 06:08 AM // 06:08

I've done this run many many times. Damage was never a problem if each person brings the typical skills for a b/p setup. FW+winnow+orders necro skills should add more than enough dmge to own the tombs.

Sofonisba · Nov 28, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

We did bring a paragon (w/ pet) over the weekend, and Anthem of Flame and some other skills worked nicely on Barrage hits; I was monking so I couldn't tell if things were dying more quickly, but all the rangers seemed enthusiastic about it.

Div · Nov 28, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Seems fine, but why have mending on the monk? Such a waste of energy if you ask me.

Francis Crawford · Dec 04, 2006, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Wouldn't it make sense for somebody to go R/P and spam Go For The Eyes?

Also, I don't understand why it ever makes sense to cast Order of Pain when you're already running Order of the Vampire. What am I missing?

And finally -- if you have Nightfall, can heroes do the job?

qvtkc · Dec 05, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

It's sad that people can't run a decent orders necro these days. This is how it's supposed to be done:

Awaken the Blood
Order of the Vampire
Mending
Blood Ritual
Healing Breeze
Heal Party
Well of Blood (do not use unless the mm drops out)
Rebirth

Blood Magic 16
Healing Prayers 8
Soul Reaping 13 (I think... what's left after bm 16 and hp 8... remember sup runes)

Totem Axe (unique item from the Falls)
Blood Knife (collector reward from uhm... Aurios Mines I think)

Sup runes on most armor parts

The totem axe has a 20% longer lasting enchants mod. The Blood Knife has a 20/20 cast time/recharge mod. These two together enables you to keep OoV up 91% of the time, so there is no need to bring Order of Pain, which can be upheld 100% of the time but at the expense of a skill slot. Instead, bring Awaken the Blood, increasing the effect of OoV from +17 to +19, which together with Barrage makes for some extra damage + healing.

(91% OoV + AtB does on average 1729 damage per 100 arrows. 100% OoP + OoV does 1700 damage per 100 arrows)

To those who say that Mending is useless due to shatters have not understood the concept of orders... stay way way back from the action, the only time you should be even close to in range of the mobs is when you br the monk. The real danger to an orders necro isn't shatter, it's Backfire... it hurts when you have like 140 health.

Antheus · Dec 05, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Crawford

Wouldn't it make sense for somebody to go R/P and spam Go For The Eyes?

Also, I don't understand why it ever makes sense to cast Order of Pain when you're already running Order of the Vampire. What am I missing?

Been there, done that.

Command at 8, add GftE and Stand your Ground. I'd suggest this one acts as a puller with no pet, so the skills don't get disabled when pet dies. That negates all benefits.

Barrage, concussion shot, savage shot, GftE, SyG, Whirling defense, Something + rez.

Another option is to bring order of the undead for the MM. Tried that as well, works without a problem, even with little to no self-healing. +17 damage from each minion, and each can fire twice in the 5 seconds it lasts.

I never managed to test it enough, but somehow it feels as if GftE and SyG affects minions as well. But this is unconfirmed. The definition of "ally" is somewhat flaky.

zling · Dec 05, 2006, 06:25 PM // 18:25

dont use mending!!! too many chars of yours have this worthless crap

as for your rangers, yes favourable and winnowing are the only needed spirits thus the others could bring other things, perhaps more interrupts...
and use distracting instead of savage, works on all skills and disables them, better than extra damage on just spells. you can use both if you're not carrying a spirit...
I also agree with the res sigs for rangers and no monk secondary, bring paragorn/warrior secondaries instead and use different shouts/echos/chants to boost your team even more...

as for your MM, vereta's sacrifice is a worthless skill after the MM nerf... bring dark aura(for some minion bombing effect) and taste of death along with heal area for your own health. also, horrors are pretty bad, bring fiends and perhaps a few vampiric along with the golem...

your orders doesnt need both OoP and OoV, just stick with OoV with a 20% longer enchantments weapon and 20/20 off hand or a 20/20 wand with 20/20 off hand. however I wont recommend awaken the blood as the sacrifice will be too high unless you're very good and careful orders necro to not over sacrifice yourself and not get near the mobs. and it's only an extra 2 dmg...
I recommend party affecting skills such as heal party, aegis and extinguish as it doesnt force you to get near your team and the mobs...

your monk is also weird... a WoH is very good for tomb runs however remove mending and perhaps seed as well and bring good stuff like whisper or something, and where is your orison??? no self heal at all

breeze just wont cut it, it's awful as a self heal, only good against degen and can be shattered thus doing double the damage... also, get some hex removal, at the very least inspire hex or even better, reverse hex or something...