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Old Jul 21, 2007, 03:35 AM // 03:35   #61
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http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Signet_of_Recall

Awesome way to disable yoursel but remove E-denial?
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 04:27 AM // 04:27   #62
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http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Grapple

Grapple + Steady Stance = !!!!!

There's nothing more to say other then overpowered.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Farmer%27s_Scythe

The name made me laugh. It fits don't change it!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Way_of_the_Warrior

Another reason to run A/D.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Wandering_Eye

Skills that help PvE mesmers are always nice.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sum_of_All_Fears

This looks good for PvP and PvE... so as a result it'll get nerfed one day and all PvE mesmers will cry j/k

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Energy_Blast

Energy Spike anyone?



Hmmm

Volley
Crossfire
Distracting Shot
Feral aggression
Pred Pounce
Charm Animal
Heal as One {E}
Rebirth

Beastmastery: 9+1
Expertise:9+1
Marksmanship: 12+3+1
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 04:30 AM // 04:30   #63
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I wonder how Elite Skills are going to work with monsters... Will they only have Core Elites and monster skills? Kind of limited, wouldn't you say?
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17   #64
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These skills look like a whole lot of fun:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hexer%27s_Vigor
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Atrophy
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43   #65
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OK, Round 2:

MONK
  • Cure Hex
    Since it's in the healing prayers line, this one might see some play. That's a pretty big heal, and the cast/recharge/cost aren't out of line compared to other hex removal.
  • Smite Condition
    People used smite hex because it was fast compared to other hex removals, not because it.. er.. smited stuff. Basically it was used as straight-up removal. With a 7 recharge, this is terrible as straight-up condition removal, and it's too conditional as direct damage. Meh.
  • Patient Spirit
    I'm not sure about this one. On the one hand, it looks pretty sucky. Not-so-great healing, after a wait. The only benefit is a slightly better cast time than most healing prayers. The one thing that has me doubting my instinct that it's going to just plain suck is the fact that it's "quasi-prot," and the other two quasi-prot skills in the healing line see a ton of play.
  • Healing Ribbon
    Is near big enough? I'm not sure if I see this triggering the bonus heals often enough. If it did, maybe a replacement for heal party?...
  • Steadfast Soul
    And this would be useful to my team when? The only time I ever see anti-knockdown used is for certain PvE gimmick builds, but the other ally restriction prevents this for being useful even in those.
  • Spotless Mind
    If it removes the first hex on cast, and then every 5 sec thereafter, great skill. If you have to wait 5 sec for the first removal, not so good...
  • Spotless Soul
    Pretty much the same deal.
  • Smiter's Boon
    Seems like the worst skill of the bunch. Smiting doesn't exactly have a whole bunch of skills that target allies. And the circumstances when you'd want to hit an ally with a smiting spell for damage don't always coincide with when you'd want to heal them.
  • Castigation Signet
    I guess it's fun little e-management for smiters. Honestly, I have no idea if it's balanced or not, given the pretty much near-total lack a viability for smiting in general.
  • Purifying Veil
    Not sure here. It seems other options that do outright removal are so strong that mere duration-shortening is a waste of time. Maybe I'm wrong.

NECOMANCER
  • Withering Aura
    Stick it on a barrage ranger and watch it go. On paper, this may seem overpowered, but after using AoE weakness on my dervish (hint: contagion), I really don't think so. Kudos for encouraging inter-build synergy. My one question is: why death magic? The non-minion aspects of the line are so sucky, and this skill's syngery with minions really isn't there, so that's strikes me as the worst place to put it if you wanted it to see play.
  • Foul Feast
    This skill is simply terrible. It's hard to self-inflict enough conditions to beat out other non-conditional direct damage skills without hosing yourself.
  • Putrid Bile
    Overpowered. Compare Icy Veins.
  • Cacophony
    Probably metagame-changing. Complete shutdown on a paragon. Though I do wonder: (1) Is this too powerful? Doesn't it just completely hose an entire class? (2) Why now? If you're going to make an uber-pagragon-screwer, why not put it into Nightfall before making all those horrific nerfs to paragons? If we had this from the get-go instead of ulcerous lungs, maybe those nerfs wouldn't have been called for.
  • Hexer's Vigor
    Not quite sure what to think. Seems like an OK self-heal for the e-cost, and the condition of using an all-hex bar isn't too hard to do. But, do we need a self-heal for hexers?... Don't hexers tend to stay back, kite, and wait for the monk rather than rely on self-heals?
  • Masochism
    • This skill infuriates me. After seeing soul reaping get mangled beyond recognition, here we are with a soul reaping skill that replaces the energy gain the attribute itself was supposed to provide. Feels like a kick in the nuts to me. Fix soul reaping; get rid of the silly timer crap; don't try to fix through skills what you shouldn't have broken in the first place.
    • Very highly likelihood of crating infinite energy engines. Which will in turn lead to this being nerfed into the ground a couple weeks after release.
    • At the very least, it would be wise to give a 0 return at 0 SR to limit it to necro primaries.
    • The one redeeming thing I see in this skill is its potential to greatly improve the blood line. Spamming blood of the aggressor user this might work out pretty nicely.
  • Defile Defenses
    Another metagame changer. Aegis chain --> dead. Guardian --> dead. Block stances (not coupled with a speed stance for canceling) --> dead. And it's spammable. If this stays the way it is, we're going to see a major shift away from damage prevention and towards healing. As someone who thinks the "prot >>> healing" attitude is annoying and snooty, and (insofar as it's also right) the effectiveness of prot makes the game stagnant, I might like to see how this change works works out. But I can imagine that a lot of people are going to be outraged over this.
  • Angorodon's Gaze
    Goes with blood drinker? Might be nicer if the cost of missing the condition weren't so high.
  • Well of Ruin
    As the only source of AoE cracked armor, this skill is like automatically overpowered.
  • Atrophy
    Like someone said earlier, we got our primary attribute ruined, so now we ruin everyone else's? This skill strikes me as something impossible to balance because of the huge variance in primary attributes. Knocking 39+ max energy off an ele is quite likely to shut them down entirely for the hex's duration. 7 sec of that is probably way too long. On the flip side, unless the target built around their linked skills, I'm not sure there's a duration long enough for knocking out spawning power or strength that would ever justify the 10e cost.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 06:08 AM // 06:08   #66
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My first 8 man build with GW:EN skills (with a little of sarcasm, maybe)

6 Elementalist/Mesmer.
Echo, Energy Blast, Res.Sig., 5 empty slots.

2 Monks.
Last edited by NeHoMaR; Jul 21, 2007 at 06:13 AM // 06:13..
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 06:55 AM // 06:55   #67
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Hey Cthon. I'm interested in reviewing the new skills myself, but mainly the necro ones, since my necro will be the first to make it through GW:EN - so I have vested interest. I just decided to take what you said, and add my opinion to it, elaborating or contrasting where I find needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
NECOMANCER
Withering Aura
Stick it on a barrage ranger and watch it go. On paper, this may seem overpowered, but after using AoE weakness on my dervish (hint: contagion), I really don't think so. Kudos for encouraging inter-build synergy. My one question is: why death magic? The non-minion aspects of the line are so sucky, and this skill's syngery with minions really isn't there, so that's strikes me as the worst place to put it if you wanted it to see play.
Not sure why it's in death magic, except maybe for some synergy with Virulence, without needing Enfeeble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Foul Feast
This skill is simply terrible. It's hard to self-inflict enough conditions to beat out other non-conditional direct damage skills without hosing yourself.
Just throwing this out there, but what about Draw Conditions? Might be some interesting synergy there. *shrug* I don't want to say it's terrible, because it could have it's uses, and if Plague Signet saw some buffs, self-conditioning might become worth it. Who knows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Putrid Bile
Overpowered. Compare Icy Veins.
Pretty much agree here. Up the energy cost or lower the damage, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Cacophony
Probably metagame-changing. Complete shutdown on a paragon. Though I do wonder: (1) Is this too powerful? Doesn't it just completely hose an entire class? (2) Why now? If you're going to make an uber-pagragon-screwer, why not put it into Nightfall before making all those horrific nerfs to paragons? If we had this from the get-go instead of ulcerous lungs, maybe those nerfs wouldn't have been called for.
Yeah, this is going to kill Paragons in certain areas of PvE - and probably too limited in PvP. Maybe it will be followed by some buffs in other Paragon skills. Here's hoping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Hexer's Vigor
Not quite sure what to think. Seems like an OK self-heal for the e-cost, and the condition of using an all-hex bar isn't too hard to do. But, do we need a self-heal for hexers?... Don't hexers tend to stay back, kite, and wait for the monk rather than rely on self-heals?
This might be king in ABs, but everywhere else - yeah, iffy. Doubt it will see much play at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Masochism
  • This skill infuriates me. After seeing soul reaping get mangled beyond recognition, here we are with a soul reaping skill that replaces the energy gain the attribute itself was supposed to provide. Feels like a kick in the nuts to me. Fix soul reaping; get rid of the silly timer crap; don't try to fix through skills what you shouldn't have broken in the first place.
  • Very highly likelihood of crating infinite energy engines. Which will in turn lead to this being nerfed into the ground a couple weeks after release.
  • At the very least, it would be wise to give a 0 return at 0 SR to limit it to necro primaries.
  • The one redeeming thing I see in this skill is its potential to greatly improve the blood line. Spamming blood of the aggressor user this might work out pretty nicely.
Whoa now, nothing to be mad at. I'm rather happy about the final incarnation of SR, personally, and this is just a nice treat. Keep in mind, a lot of major necro builds use one or two sac skills, if at all. What this will do is make more skills usable again. As you say, a lot of the Blood Magic line will look much better, which is great, IMO. It may be nerfed, and definitely 0 at 0 SR is a good start point, but otherwise, great skill - not too powerful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Defile Defenses
Another metagame changer. Aegis chain --> dead. Guardian --> dead. Block stances (not coupled with a speed stance for canceling) --> dead. And it's spammable. If this stays the way it is, we're going to see a major shift away from damage prevention and towards healing. As someone who thinks the "prot >>> healing" attitude is annoying and snooty, and (insofar as it's also right) the effectiveness of prot makes the game stagnant, I might like to see how this change works works out. But I can imagine that a lot of people are going to be outraged over this.
It only works on the next attack, but because of the lengthy effect time, may be re-applied quickly after the first attack. 5 second recharge on this puppy does seem a bit overpowered. I like the effect, and the damage seems decent for its condition, but the recharge needs to be about 7-10 seconds, I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Angorodon's Gaze
Goes with blood drinker? Might be nicer if the cost of missing the condition weren't so high.
Harking back to Foul Feast, if Plague Signet got a nice buff, and self-conditioning was worthwhile, this could be nice. Otherwise, meh. Have to try it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Well of Ruin
As the only source of AoE cracked armor, this skill is like automatically overpowered.
Nah, I don't think so. Wells require a corpse, and by the time you have a corpse, you're already into the battle and dishing out or taking the brunt of the damage. Cracked Armor seems better as a good set-up for spiking, which probably has already happened due to there being a corpse. Harmful wells are difficult to manage like that - too little, too late kinda thing. So, I think the effect is good enough to make up for the downsides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Atrophy
Like someone said earlier, we got our primary attribute ruined, so now we ruin everyone else's? This skill strikes me as something impossible to balance because of the huge variance in primary attributes. Knocking 39+ max energy off an ele is quite likely to shut them down entirely for the hex's duration. 7 sec of that is probably way too long. On the flip side, unless the target built around their linked skills, I'm not sure there's a duration long enough for knocking out spawning power or strength that would ever justify the 10e cost.
This skill strikes me in a similar way of Order of Apostasy. It has a high cost in downsides (in this case long recharge, short duration, single target, potentially bad effect if used improperly), while at the same time potentially providing an insane and overpowered effect. You almost need to build an entire team around this one skill. Ya know, that's one of the things I really like about the Necro - unpredictable and just plain mean. This skill emphasizes that, and I love it!
Last edited by arcanemacabre; Jul 21, 2007 at 06:58 AM // 06:58..
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56   #68
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Lotus strike is an excellent much needed skill in the meta. It paves the way for assassins to be a lot less cookie cutterish.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13   #69
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I think Ghostly Weapon, Zealot's Fire, and Wielder's Zeal will be lots of fun. Who doesn't love near-free AoE damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
Smoke Powder --> the duration versus cool-down is extremely low, making it unlikely to see play.
I see a hammer warrior about to Hammer Bash me, Smoke Powder blinds him long enough to prevent Crushing Blow. Oh, and the axe warrior that was charging in too just missed on his Eviscerate because he was blind as well. Good luck building that adrenaline up before Smoke Powder recharges when you're attacking through miss hexes, snares, and blocks as well.

An assassin just Shadow Prisoned me... Smoke Powder triggered on his Black Lotus Strike so his Horns of the Ox just missed.

Quote:
The fact that it is a stance doesn't help.
Because skills that have instant activations and can be switched on even when you're KDed are... bad?
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 07:38 AM // 07:38   #70
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*Volley - would like to see it not remove preperations. Splinter/barrage build does much more spike damage in close groups than barrage and any prep. That dynamic should just be removed from both skills imo.

*Wondering Eye - Needs to be Domination - Dom is the Mesmer's only AoE damage line and it NEEDS MORE DAMAGE.

*Patient spirit - Not sure the point of this skill. Assured death vs spikes?

*Signet of recall - Not sure of the point on this one either. Deny other's energy denial of you by denying yourself energy? Seems like you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

*Slippery Ground - listed as water, but appears unlinked. Add damage and link? Falling on ice HURTS, I assure you.

I am disappointed to see that Mesmers still arent receiving a spell/skill in the Fast Casting line that helps them be proficent with other professions' skills. All Mesmers need is a Sance in Fast Casting that reduces energy cost and skill recharge by 10...30%. That way a Me/E could get a group in DoA!

Please, save the Mesmers...

Other than that, looks like there are some decent skills in there.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 08:02 AM // 08:02   #71
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Have Barrage not remove preparations? Yeah, because they really need Ignite Arrows or Read the Wind on top of Barage.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08   #72
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Looks good.

A lot of these are basicly toned down elites. A lot of elites are going going to be pushed out of the meta.

Now show use the good stuff. Give me a peak of the elites and I'll probably get my preorder now. Otherwise I'll just wait.
Last edited by twicky_kid; Jul 21, 2007 at 08:16 AM // 08:16..
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 08:17 AM // 08:17   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Plz nerf this before it becomes insanity.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hasty_Refrain


Its already very easy to keep mending refrain going. All we need is wars and dervs on a permanent speed boost with shouts backing them.
Uhh no. Mending Refrain is easy to keep up because it lasts 20 seconds, as opposed to the 5-6 seconds for Hasty. Not to mention, if they use that speed buff to run just out of earshot at the wrong time, no more speed buff. I think it's pretty balanced, IMO.

EDIT: ok? Completely changed your post.... odd.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28   #74
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Way of the Warrior? give me a break, i made an assassin to get rid of all that is warriors and now i get this?
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 09:56 AM // 09:56   #75
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Ritualists.
Need.
A.
Freaking.
Hex.
Removal.
Skill.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07   #76
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Wait, so are those mesmer skills the ones that are supposed to make mesmers more attractive for PvE? I don't see a single mesmer skill listed that I couldn't easily live without.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11   #77
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All of these skills are excelent ideas. None are just copy paste or very similar to other skills.

Atm, there are four ways to deal out Cracked Armour:

Well of Ruin
Shrinking Armor
Shell Shock
Sundering Weapon

"The point of Cracked Armor is to allow you to deal with Heavy Armored targets like Warriors and Paragons, it's still a condition and it can get removed, it also works on every class because there are skills on all Physicals that use Cracked Armor. It's pretty much a counter to all passive armor buffs. ~Izzy "

How many will see use within GvG (where passive armour is widely used) will be rather low imo.

Wells are very rarely used because of their volatile nature, and how they are so small and can be moved out of easily.

Shrinking Armor and Shatter Delusion may be used on spikes, against Frenzied Warriors, to really cut them down with ease.

Shell Shock seems the only one that will be used. It will fit nicely on B-Surges bars and I'im sure it will see use.

Communing Ritualists are also rare but Sundering Weapon is extremely powerful and may cause people to include one for that skill and the other Ritualists ones that are all powerful.

It seems that Grapple and "I Meant to Do That!" will become a favourite over Bulls Strike and another skill. However the long recharge of Grapple seems to balance it out, because you have to choose to use it on a spike or after to gain a large amount of adrenaline. Many will stick to Bulls Strike Im sure.

Poison Tip Signet and Barrage/ Volley could amount to a lot of pressure, but won't leave much room on a standard Rangers bar. Rapid Fire will not see abuse from non Rangers: its a 2 second cast, its Marksmanship and its /R required. Not favourable on W/R or D/R.

Expert Focus seems a lot better than Expert's Dexterity, and if anyone even used Expert's Dexterity, now they will use Focus for sure. Disrupting Shot very powerful to single Rangers, yet not to many of them all spiking together.

A high recharge on Body Shot compared to other attack skills, especially as Rangers cant deal Cracked Armour.

Some powerful new healing spells. Good GvG Monks might start to use Patient Spirit as a pre prot, but its healing power seems a bit too low to consider, especially if you dont get the timing right (3 seconds is a long time compared to a good spike). Maybe would be good to use on yourself and then infuse target ally, so that your not left with low health for long, whilst giving you the time to kite. The healing seems to low though imo.

Necromancers have been given some standard skills that are powerful yet all very situational. Defile Defenses on spikes against Aegis chains will be very powerful. Atrophy is also very powerful against classes that rely on their Primary to maintain themselves (Mesmers, Rangers, Dervishes, Paragons most effected. Elementalists would be very unaffected in most situations).

A curses Necro may be added to maintain a lot of pressure as well as assist in spikes with Defile Defenses and Defile Enchantments. Hexes like Reckless Haste and Price of Failure could be used by them, giving a lot of support to a team. Not a likely replacement, however.

The Mesmer skills are all very nice. Its good to see we havent been given terrible elites just to make up numbers on Guild Wars official site.

Signet of Recall seems interesting, but Ive yet to make up my mind on its power. Waste Not, Want Not nearly as powerful as Power Drain, with a slightly shorter recharge. Sum of All Fears a great PvP skill, to pressure whatever they feel necessary. Would really hurt Dervishes. Power Lock will see use in GvG to counter things like Blind Surge and Light of Deliverance where good enemies will be watching for Diversions.

Aneurysm could potentially go as bad as it could go well. All energy to an enemy, 0 damage if it has no effect, lots of damage but lots of energy if it has an effect. A great PvE skill however. Wandering Eye is also a fantastic PvE skill, and I will definately be using it with Ineptitude and Clumsiness.

Confusing Images is an interesting skill, but doesnt seem powerful enough to be used. A reduction in recharge might make it on par with the other skills.

Some nice ele skills, but I dont play ele. Shell Shock on Bsurges possible.

Assassins have been given some nice options, with a spammable deep wound off hand. Requires an enchantment, but is still a good skill. Shadow Fang is nice but 45 recharge really hurts it. Signet of Deadly Corruption is awesome. Smoke Powder is a cool skill, and might be used on Monks when being spiked. Instant blind on all enemies around you might be a little too powerful though.

Some excelent Weapon Spells for the Ritualist, Sundering Weapon looking very powerful against armoured foes. Spiritleech Aura seems to suck imo. I dont understand it at all.

The paragon being moved in a good direction: more damage and offensive support power, rather than defensive.

Dervishes skills arent as interesting as the other classes.

Im very happy with these. Well done Anet.
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30   #78
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despite the lack of a new minion(calm down me)
these are very good skills and a very interesting new condition
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 12:19 PM // 12:19   #79
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lol u realised Poison Tip Signet isnt prep so u can now use barrage and poison them GREAT!!!
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Old Jul 21, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Looks good.

A lot of these are basicly toned down elites. A lot of elites are going going to be pushed out of the meta.

Now show use the good stuff. Give me a peak of the elites and I'll probably get my preorder now. Otherwise I'll just wait.
There are no elites. Just 100 new skills for PvP/PvE and 50 PvE only which would be closer to elite as they would be potentially...devastating! (thus why they didnt make it into pvp - toooo hardcore)

Id rather 50 pve only skills than 40 elites which makes no sense as 1 skillbar 1 elite. Norn form skills > new elites.
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