Curse

Solar_Takfar · Aug 23, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Nicely put, sophitia.

Nice that we can have an interesting talk about lore, too. Taking a break from the often-whinefesty disputes about game mechanics is always a good thing.

Avatara · Aug 23, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I think you guys are forgetting that the Lich's true plan was to set free Abaddon ... Same thing Shiro tried to do by destroying the balance between the worlds... allowing Abaddon to leak into our world.

As you learn in NF... the Lich was one of Abaddon's toys all along.

Free Runner · Aug 23, 2007, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaq_gw

@Zanntos,
1) The shining blade were only a small resistance movement nothing like a full blown bloody civil war
2) Ascalon was not hosed because even without us Adelbern is still holding out.
3) The stone summit want to awaken the destroyer, with the artefact i posession by the deldrimor they might acquire it somehow and do their thing

1) Kryta was not exactly in a good state when the Mantle ruled it. Undead running around,random murders, the killing of the innocent who were thought to be the chosen...

2) Ascalon would of been completly wiped of life if not for us. Adelbern stood no chance against the Titan Lords and their armies.

3) Every attempt by the Stone Summit at getting the Tome of Rubicon failed. Alkar led a team to take the book from the stone balisca where we hid it and decipered it : The Great Destroyer was coming book or no book.

We saved Tyria from what it was heading to. Of course there are places that still need saving but we stopped most of the damage. We saved Cantha from Shiro and after a few years it recovered (Up until the Earthquakes). We stopped Abaddons Nightfall and Elona is fine (Okay Joko is still running around...).

draxynnic · Aug 23, 2007, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ice Man X

Well I've got over 3 thousand hours played.

The Chosen were killed on the blood stone to keep the soul batteries that were containing the titans charged so that they could not escape. We came along and stop all of that happening. There is not way that you can argue that we "saved the world" without accepting that if it wasn't for us it wouldn't need saving.

People say the Mursaat are evil yet, you are being lead by the lich. They fight you in defence of thier race, as it was said that the titans would kill all of the Mursaat.

Everything that you did that was good and saved the world was only you fixing a problem that you had created in the first place.

So yes, glountz might be right you did save Ascalon from those titans in the titans quests. It is a fact though that we did let them out, hence the need to stop them.

It's more accurate to say we're being lead by Glint, even if she did let us get used by the Lich in the meantime.

You're still making the assumption that if we hadn't been there, there would have been no problem to fix. I think that's a fallacy - if we'd stayed at home the Lich would still be out there, and he'd probably still have the same objectives. Either he'd have found another batch of Chosen to do the job, or he'd have found another way - it would just have delayed the inevitable.

Sophitia Leafblade · Aug 23, 2007, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Ice Man X

Well I've got over 3 thousand hours played.

The Chosen were killed on the blood stone to keep the soul batteries that were containing the titans charged so that they could not escape. We came along and stop all of that happening. There is not way that you can argue that we "saved the world" without accepting that if it wasn't for us it wouldn't need saving.

People say the Mursaat are evil yet, you are being lead by the lich. They fight you in defence of thier race, as it was said that the titans would kill all of the Mursaat.

Everything that you did that was good and saved the world was only you fixing a problem that you had created in the first place.

So yes, glountz might be right you did save Ascalon from those titans in the titans quests. It is a fact though that we did let them out, hence the need to stop them.

The Mursaat were not working with or for the Lich. Infact they were against him. They controlled the White Mantle Against the Lichs Undead, they also powered the Door of Komalie to keep it closed to stop the Titan which in the end were released and slaughtered alot of them (see the Defend Droknars Forge Quest for example and youll see alot of Mursaat Corpses.) Just because we didnt understand there reasons at the time and so fought against them didnt make the Mursaat Evil.

They had only been Powering the Bloodstone Once a year since the Searing (the rise of the White Mantle) so twice. The reasons they did this is because Abaddons Powers were rapidly growing (especially from the results of the Searing and the growth in number of Tainted Souls such as the Orrian ones). He had been straining against the Door to open it, the Mursaat had been desperatly trying to hold the door closed and had resorted to having to use Souls to Prevent the Titans from breaking through. So in Other words they were coming through either way, we just inadvertently gave them a helping hand and then helped set it straight.

GranDeWun · Aug 23, 2007, 03:03 PM // 15:03

I personally have been working for the Great Destroyer all along. Wiping out Shiro and Abaddon was just clearing out the competition. That's why I killed Glint...
(Where's Gwen? Come here little girl...)

GloryFox · Aug 23, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Also keep in mind the Mursaat would not have stopped at Kryta. They already had plans for Ascalon. Remember the Ambassador Zain? Remember the chosen are the decedents of Doric first king of all humans in Tyria.

Quote:

They sealed the stones with Doric's blood (hence the name Bloodstones) and placed him and his dynasty in charge of guarding the stones.

To think it is ok by any means to appease the Murssat by sacrificing a few humans a year is lunacy at best. We did what we had to do when we had to do it. I don't regret my choice to save as many who would follow, regroup then return when the time was right.

Now the time is right. Rurik did not die in vain but rather bought us time that was needed to survive. Now let us return to the north and enact revenge upon Abbadons misguided followers.

We saved Ascalon not once but twice.
We saved Kryta not just from the undead but from the Mursaat.
We saved Deldramore not just from the Stone Summit but from the Mursaat that invaded it.
We saved the Canthan Empire from the Return of Shiro.
We saved all of Elona from Nightfall and the Margonite invasion.
We killed Abbadon who was full of lies and replaced it with a Being of Truth.
We ended the threat of Abbadon's generals in the Domain of Anguish.

We were HERO"s then just as we are, will be, the HERO's now.

I do not regret my choices as, I did the right thing. Devona, Cynn, Mhenlo, and Aiden were right, it's time to return home for a third time and finnish what we did not start.

/ready

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Aug 23, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

I feel like its a game.... (gp though)

Sophitia Leafblade · Aug 23, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

The descendants of Doric failed in their task to defend the Bloodstones (The Only currently know remaining descendants being: King Adelbern, Duke Barradin and possibly Salma). The Mursaat took it upon themselves to Defend Tryia (their homelands) from the Threat of Abaddon. If they really were evil and had plans to conquer the rest of Tryia they would not have protected Kryta and saved all the humans of Tryia (Kryta and Ascalon) who would have fallen before the Armies of the Charr.

Etta · Aug 23, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

The Mursaats were one of those old-time bad guys with a bit of honor and a bit of morals, which made them almost one of the good guys. Misguilded maybe, but they do what they gotta do y'know. They did what they think was right, none of us was a Saint.

How many of them have we killed? In the end it don't mean nothing.

Darksun · Aug 23, 2007, 04:18 PM // 16:18

zanntos basically answered all your questions but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaq_gw

Did we really save tyria?
Kryta is now in a bloody civil war were each party is set to win no matter what the cost.

No, the civil war was already happening. By exposing the Mursaat and stopping their larger plan to control Komalie, we made a much more positive impact than we would have sitting in Ascalon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaq_gw

Ascalon is all but fallen

Tell me something that had not ALREADY happened. Why do you think Rurik wanted to cut his losses and save his people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaq_gw

We cleared sorrows furnace making it possible for a new artifact to be found and the dwarves trying to awaken the great destroyer.

That is not saving my dear, that is making things worse.

quite the opposite:
"This armageddon can be brought about by reading the Great Destroyer's true name aloud from the Tome, something which the Stone Summit attempted to do six years ago, in the depths of Sorrow's Furnace, before it was retrieved by High Priest Alkar, its secrets safe again."
In fact, because the Stone Summit were already looking for Rubikon, you postponed the great Destroyer's coming by fleeing Ascalon & helping the Dwarves.

GloryFox · Aug 23, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

The descendants of Doric failed in their task to defend the Bloodstones

Kind of hard to defend something that was supposed to remain in a volcano. You forget that Tyrian born characters are also descendants of Doric as well. That means your character "a chosen" could very well be the last human king.

Quote:

Between the time when the oceans drank the City of Arah, and the rise of the Guild Wars, there was an age undreamed of. And unto this, (insert your character name here), destined to bear the jeweled crown of Doric upon a troubled brow. It is I, his chronicler who alone can tell thee of that saga.
Let me tell you of the days of high adventure! [insert Conan theme song]
- (you the player)

ShadowbaneX · Aug 23, 2007, 04:54 PM // 16:54

It's a double edged sword. Technically, we, as the players, unleashed all this hell to begin with. We opened the Door of Komalie. Of course we then slammed it shut again, but we opened the doors for the Titans who went a ravagin'. Then we went and whooped the Titans collective ass. Now the Titans were the Charr's gods. With their gods slain, some of the Charr are starting to wake up (our new ranger hero for one) and realise that they're being slightly uncivilized. If more of them start to go this way there might actually be peace between the Charr and Ascalon, rather then one force slaughtering the other.

It's one of those Chinese "Interesting Times" things.

jkyarr · Aug 23, 2007, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Sorry, but my destiny was a higher calling than to wallow with King Fuzzy Chin in his has-been kingdom of oversized scorpions.

Biscuit to him for running the Char out of his backyard daily, but I fail to see how that compares to the masses of millions my ascended, masterful emninience has saved from certain death.

The death of innocents is tragic, but I refuse to shoulder the responsibility of every instance of such deaths like they were mine to prevent.

At the close of each day you can review everything that was accomplished and find satisfaction in it or you can crucify yourself and everyone else over everything that we failed to accomplish. The 17 soldiers that were left in all of ascolon at the time I left it have done well to hold out this long, but they certainly could not have done so if I had not played my part and realized the need for others to do more important things than cling to the seared mud puddle that once was home.

Shaq_gw · Aug 23, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

I have seen alot of good points but my point remains, and Sophitia Leafblade confirmed it with the quote from the banishing of rurik, that we were fleeing ascalon to build a new life elsewhere.

//Prince Rurik: "People of Rin! Your king will lead you to death. If you wish to see better days, if you wish to live, then leave the beasts behind and follow me over the Shiverpeaks. We make for Kryta and a new life, free of the Charr."//

We chose to follow rurik to "safety", it was him who was banished, not us
We could not possibly know then, that we would end up saving the world anyway

Saying that adelbern was weak and tired of fighting the charr is proven wrong by the fact he is still holding out and even started to fight a guerilla war behind enemy lines.

But all in all, i like what i have unleashed with this thread

A good discussion about the lore

OlMurraniKasale · Aug 23, 2007, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkyarr

At the close of each day you can review everything that was accomplished and find satisfaction in it or you can crucify yourself and everyone else over everything that we failed to accomplish.

Saving the world? The whole world? How audacious and presumptive! The world is so big, how can one or even eight people save it?!

I can only save myself, from this my honor and morality stem. When the Charr came calling, I attacked them not because of all the extant reasons that popular consensus dictated, but because of my one selfish reason - it was the right thing to do for me. Let me not claim I did or did not save the whole world - I saved only myself. I did the right thing. Even the most vile assassin or most wretched Charr turn-coat decided to do the right thing and that made all the difference.

I will have the chance to save myself again very soon. Earthquakes and gasping, grasping chasms both elemental and societal-made appear in our lands. Will I save myself again? Yes is to be honorable and moral, no is to be nothing more terrible than selfish; which I am either way. Concerning myself with this is neither good nor bad - such concerns do not exist.

Hobbs · Aug 23, 2007, 05:54 PM // 17:54

I don't think that all those "Chosen" in Divinity Coast were really Chosen. I mean the kinda sucked, unlike us who we strong enough to reach Glint and discover our destinies. I reckon the White Mantle and their Eye of Janthir just picked Krytans at random and the Mantle said they were chosen and slaughtered them on the Bloodstone. Perhaps any souls would fill the batteries on the Door of Komalie. Perhaps it wasn't the Mantle and the Mursaat didn't know we were the actual chosen and instead ordered the Mantle to kill a bunch of random krytans they thought could be the chosen. I think the Mantle weren't all that bad really, they just followed their Gods (the Unseen Ones aka Mursaat) and did as they were told.

But the Mursaat weren't all bad either:

Quote:

The Unseen Ones stepped in to save Kryta from the Charr invasion when Saul D'Alessio stumbled upon their homeland while lost in a forest during his exile. In exchange, Saul founded the White Mantle and instituted the worship of the Unseen Ones as the religion of the ruling regime and began to call on people to abandon worshipping the Old Gods.

So really the Mursaat just helped the Krytans fend off the Charr and for that the gained the trust and Allegiance of the White Mantle.

But the Charr weren't too bad themselves, they were only following their Gods, the Titans. So really all this conflict was just about religion, much like the conflicts in real life. The Charr, Mantle and Us all worshipped different gods and these gods manipulated us to do their bidding.

What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr?

All my "facts" were taken from wiki articles so might not be entirely accurate.

Darksun · Aug 23, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togira Ikonaka

What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr?

Whoever was in Orr, and had the Scepter of Orr would not have had time to make it to the ring of fire, go through the monsters there, open the door of Komalie, and get the Titans to Orr (there didn't seem to be a rift to Orr, although they may have been able to make one ) before the Charr invaded. Neither Kingdom, Orr/Kryta felt they were in danger of the Charr.

Operative 14 · Aug 23, 2007, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

What I don't understand is why did Vizier Khilbron kill all the Charr that were invading Orr? He controlled the Titans who controlled the Charr so if he didn't want his homeland destroyed he could probably have ordered the Charr to go away. Also in destroying the Charr he destroyed Orr which, if i'm not mistaken was the thing he seeked to proctect from the Charr?

I believe that the deal was that he was a good person originally, and was trying to save Orr. But the spell that he used to defeat the Charr army bearing down on him was so powerful it corrupted him, making him power hungry and evil. And it also destroyed Orr which was bad.

As far as the whole conversation goes; I suppose it was a bit cowardly to leave. However, striking out into unknown lands, leading refugess out of a nuked out wasteland and trying to save as many lives as possible is certainly a worthy cuase. I don't really feel bad about abandoning Ascalon becuase what we did as heros was the most logical course of action given the circumstances. Honestly, how many of you looked at the missions and quests in Ascalon and thought "Yeah, I think this is a war Ascalon can win."

Really, I can't even figure out where the water was coming from after two years, let alone food. So there's a thought. Perhaps by leading the refugees out of Ascalon, you actually saved it becuase their extremely limited resources weren't as badly streched afterwards?

Anyway, everything I would have said is already here. We saved the world at least three times by defeating the Lich, Shiro, and Abbadon. So, by defualt, we also saved Ascalon. While we left Ascalon to face the Charr army on its own, which was a great evil, we kept Ascalon from;

1) Having to face the titans and an undead army lead by the Evil lich, who probably could have used them better stratigically and won with them. While we may have been the cuase of their awakening we also went back and fixed our mistake instead of just running off to some far flung land to wait it out.

2) Being corrupted by Shiro, who surley after defeating the Canthans would have turned his attentions north.

3) Abbadon, who if set free would have made the entire world into the GW version of H-E-Double-Hocky-Sticks.

Dr Strangelove · Aug 23, 2007, 06:34 PM // 18:34

All good points, but our rampage through all of tyria netted us a ton of plunder. I may not be a hero to the hundreds of white mantle I killed just for the iron in their armor, but I'm sure as heck a hero to myself and my friends now that I'm wealthy.

Just like the crusades or almost all wars in the ancient age, sometimes a war just for the sake of a war is good stuff. Think of yourself like Attila the Hun, heroically pillaging and plundering the whole world, remembered for thousands of years.