Curse

Cobalt · Aug 26, 2007, 03:27 AM // 03:27

This is my first time using the Heroes in the game and they seem pretty weak which is probably why they are so easy to attain.

I was struggling on the Eye of Defence quest, I could not get in a group so I tried using 3 Heroes and 4 henches, I tried it over and over trying different henches and was getting wiped every time.

After getting wiped 6-7 times in a row I kicked the Heroes and used all henches, completed the mission and no one died not even the extra help.

Since then I have been using just henches and I am having a much easier go doing the quests and surviving big mobs etc... I would have figured the Heroes would have been more powerful than the henches being called Heroes, guess not.

-Loki- · Aug 26, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

You must have given your heroes some pretty naff bars then.

Navaros · Aug 26, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Heroes are very powerful if you the player makes them poweful by giving them a good skillbar. If you are using the default skillbar of your Heroes then yes of course that's crap. But no one uses the default skillbar of Heroes. You should also give some some good weapons, runes, and insignias too.

Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, (as are henchies) and vastly better than henchies too.

Cobalt · Aug 26, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

Heroes are very powerful if you the player makes them poweful by giving them a good skillbar. If you are using the default skillbar of your Heroes then yes of course that's crap. But no one uses the default skillbar of Hereoes.

Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, as are henchies, and vastly better than henchies too.

Oh did not know you could do that I will have to figure out how that is done.

Thanks

Arkantos · Aug 26, 2007, 03:33 AM // 03:33

After completing many parts of prophecies, factions, and nightfall with heroes/henchies I must say you're wrong. It usually helps to give your heroes runes, good weapons and good builds. Of course a hero is going to suck if they have a crap build.

moriz · Aug 26, 2007, 03:36 AM // 03:36

granted, the new GW:EN henchies are very powerful. devona with backbreaker+crushing blow+counter blow (and knowing how to use them) is very deadly. oh yeah, and mhenlo with light of deliverance.

to change the hero skills, press K and click on their portrait on the top of the window. go nuts.

Ensign · Aug 26, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Heroes mirror your own ability. If you're worse than a henchman, your heroes will be worse than henchmen as you'll give them awful skillbars. With the henchmen having stronger skillsets in EotN, I expect a lot of people's heroes to be weaker than henchmen.

DarkFlame · Aug 26, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

Oh did not know you could do that I will have to figure out how that is done.

Thanks

Press "K" You change their skillbars in the same place you change yours, just switch to them when changing their skills. You can also bring up their skillbar onto the screen if you want to micro-manage how and when they use their skills.

Keifru · Aug 26, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

The sword is only as good as the swordmaster.

:3

Also note, heroes wont use some skills right. Like savanna heat, they will usually cast it last, or near last.

Whirlwind · Aug 26, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

You need to get the right runes and insignias for what you plan on using them for. They also need a good weapon and a good build that fits into the team build Its basicly like being 4 of the people in the group of 8, setting up a team build, except you have a LOT more control, over everything.

So really its just a matter of thought... And yeah i believe hench are probably better, BEFORE you set up your heroes correctly (runes insig wep build - fit into team build).

But once you have they are a lot more flexible and you'll thank yourself for doing so. Not to mention you control what they do and when they cast if you so wish..

Yeah i guess heroes suck... like a check for 3 million dollars sucks...

Pkest · Aug 26, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Heroes are only as good as you make them. If you only play one profession and don't have many skills unlocked then your heroes won't be any better than henchies. But if you play lots of chars and have lots of elites and skills unlocked and you buy them runes and give them decent weapons then your heroes will be your best allies in this game.

ValaOfTheFens · Aug 26, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

My guide to using heroes:

1. Unlock alot of skills. Heroes can use all non-PvE-Only and non-titled dependent skills you've unlocked. I try to get 10,000 faction a week from ABing and get alot of Balth faction along with Luxon faction. If you don't have Factions just do Random Arenas a few times a week. Using Balth faction to unlock skills saves you loads of money and time.

2. Learn to use the flag. Heroes will follow you wherever you go. So if you want to pull a mob you need to use the flag. It will keep you AND your heroes alive.

3. Be aware of your heroes' skillbars. I used to get mad when Acolyte Sosuke would run into battle instead nuking at a nice, safe distance. But I recently realized his bar was filled with skills like [skill=text]Inferno[/skill] and [skill=text]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill].

So make sure your heroes' skills reflect your goals.

4. Different areas require different builds. Its pointless to have skills that are useless in that particular area. Example, don't give a Warrior hero Gash or a bring Minion Master in an area with no fleshy creatures. So have a few builds for each profession. GuildWiki builds are just fine for heroes. *lol*

5. Don't spend any money on them if you can help it. Most people just leave their heroes with whatever weapons they come with or give them drops. The same is true for runes. The only runes I've ever bought for a Hero are Superior Absorbtion and Superior Divine Favor and only because I use them alot. Note: You can give heroes weapons that are customized for you. The GoTY and the GWEN preorder items are a good example.

mscobra · Aug 26, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Hero's are what you make them!

1. Items you give them
2. runes/sigs you give them
3. skills you give them
4. how much you play their skill bar yourself to train them your style of play

Whirlwind · Aug 26, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

5. Don't spend any money on them if you can help it. Most people just leave their heroes with whatever weapons they come with or give them drops. The same is true for runes. The only runes I've ever bought for a Hero are Superior Absorbtion and Superior Divine Favor and only because I use them alot. Note: You can give heroes weapons that are customized for you. The GoTY and the GWEN preorder items are a good example

Im sorry but that is terrible advice... the (Gwen) pre-order hourglass staff is nice on a ele (always enchanted), the other 2 suck. Other then that, they NEED insignias and runes and a quality weapon or they are no better then a henchie that lets you cast for them.

LumpOfCole · Aug 26, 2007, 06:04 AM // 06:04

Runes and Insignias on heroes can get quite expensive, but they're very good investments. Also, when you salvage runes back off of your hero, the armor cannot be destroyed! I switch my Olias between Blood Magic +3 and Death Magic +3 all the time with this tactic, depending on if I want my Double Necro SS/SV combo or just a plain, ass-whomping MM.

stueyman2099 · Aug 26, 2007, 06:20 AM // 06:20

I'd like to take a moment to point out that none of my hero's have any runes or insignia's. Good skillset is good enough.

Sasuke The Betrayer · Aug 26, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by stueyman2099

I'd like to take a moment to point out that none of my hero's have any runes or insignia's. Good skillset is good enough.

Same... except I use a couple rune or two. I even do HM with them. All I get is a superior rune depending on their build, and maybe a minor if they need. For my healers, I use major heal major divine.

MrFuzzles · Aug 26, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

One thing you need to remember when setting up hero builds, is that they absolutely suck at energy management and skill synergies (like ebon hawk + stoning + aftershock, they just spam the skills randomly)

It really helps when trying a new build for them to keep their control panel up, and keep a close eye on what skills they're using and how they're doing on energy.

A sweet setup on a hero is absolutely useless if he spends all his energy on one skill that does jack s**t every 30 seconds.

strcpy · Aug 26, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I'll throw in my two cents also.

First if you simply give them a good skillbar and equip drops on them you should still have better than the hench. If you have the gold they are more effective the better they are equipped. There are few builds that I automatically fully equip - a minion master or my monk.

Secondly they do considerably more than simply randomly spam skills, you just have to figure out how they work. Click the little number beside their name and it will open their control panel, while this is useful to force casting something (traps, spirits, or maintained enchants) or for micromanaging them, it is indispensable in creating a build for them - you can see their health, energy, what/when they are using skills, and what skills are recharging. There are some skill chains they do well, others not so much.

Note that they use skills based on what they need at the time - for example they will only cast self healing skills when they need it. Secondly each skill tends to only have one "USE" - you may use life stealing skills as a self heal, they may use it a damage and spam it like crazy. So pay attention to how they are using that skill - it can be irritating what they see a skills use as sometimes. Probably the most irritating case of this I see is "Wild Blow" - they see it simply as extra damage. They do not see it as a stance breaker nor do they take into account adrenaline gain. Since that is normally going to be the highest +damage skill available on your bar they spam it at every possible moment - your warrior hero will *never* gain adrenaline. You can create an energy based warrior build, or you can disable the skill (shift+click on it in the skills screen) and then activate it manually when needed (the interface from clicking the number by their name), but you have to have watched how they use to know to do this.

And, lastly, some random thoughts:

I would suggest you watch enemies you come up against, if you happen to notice them doing something especially well so will your heroes - copy the skill chain. Of course, being AI the simpler the skill bar the better, but do not be afraid to experiment - nothing to loose and they sometimes "get" complex builds. They have the same amazing reflexes that the computer uses against you (you know, interrupt 1/4 second cast time and interrupting targets that they aren't even currently focused on), makes for great interrupters and minim masters (with a bloodstained insignia they almost always win the corpse or if you have a "free" skill slot throw in an interrupt). And, lastly - use flags - they are your friend and remember you can individual flag heroes.

Anyway, have fun. Even more so than the hench they are only as good as you. You now have some team builds available and quite a few roles that no hench has ever been made to fill.

Keifru · Aug 26, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I've got 1/4 elonian vanquisher with non-runed/insgniaed heroes...and all the weapons they have are /bonus stuff (GoTY+EoTN Pre-Order)

Skillbars are like 70% of the battle.